Superman Returns Do you think this film needed a super villain?

[dpm07]

i believe the sequel to SR will be much like Superman II... there will be Luthor and a supervillain or villain(s).

Yeah, and if Singer falls in line with the past, we'll see Superman dealing with Kryptonians. God forbid he use one of Superman's other rogues.

Maybe Lex will try to make a deal with the Kryptonians and they'll give him Australia like he tried to talk Zod into giving him in the second film.

 

[GhostPoet]

No. I think for Supermans first time coming bac to the big screen after soooo long...we needed Lex. Two iconic characters back on screen.

Save the super-villains (like Brainiac for instance!!) for the sequels.

 

[dpm07]

No. I think for Supermans first time coming bac to the big screen after soooo long...we needed Lex. Two iconic characters back on screen.

Save the super-villains (like Brainiac for instance!!) for the sequels.

We didn't need "just" Lex. Everyone knows who Superman is. There's no need to "reintroduce" him. People act like no one's ever heard of him. If they used just Lex, then why introduce the kid? If you want to reintroduce Superman, why bring in a character that may drag the franchise down with Jason?

Singer and his complete waste of storywriters (Harris & Daugherty) took a gamble with this story, and it didn't connect. It was out of touch with today's audience.

I've given seminars on the subject of Superheroes as a modern myth and symbols in the world at the university, and I will say, that people are more informed than some might be led to believe. I don't have have to hold everyone's hand, and explain things as much as people might think.

This film would have benefitted with a supervillain to supplement Luthor. Someone to provide more action. As it was, this film was boring. Good actors, but it was a weak story. Strong concept, but the kid dragged the film down with a weak story.

 

[Showtime]

Yeah, and if Singer falls in line with the past, we'll see Superman dealing with Kryptonians. God forbid he use one of Superman's other rogues.

Maybe Lex will try to make a deal with the Kryptonians and they'll give him Australia like he tried to talk Zod into giving him in the second film.

I disagree, if Singer and co get the opportunity to push forward with another project than it would involve a whole new story.

I think Returns was an opportunity to bury the Donner vision and move forward in a new direction.

 

[dpm07]

I disagree, if Singer and co get the opportunity to push forward with another project than it would involve a whole new story.

I think Returns was an opportunity to bury the Donner vision and move forward in a new direction.

Well that's fine if you disagree.

Time will tell, but this film has obviously not done well, and the sheep who are still heralding Singer as the greatest thing since sliced bread are doing damage control to save his dignity. Singer's a good director, and I do like many of his films. That said, he was in way over his head, and his fetish for the Donner film as well as his insistence to use those two worthless pieces of trash Harris and Daugherty may be his undoing. Time will tell, and time seems to be telling us something right now with regards to the turnout. If this film was going to do the bulk of its intake, it would have done it this past week.

It performed rather dismally considering what it was up against. Granted, Anne Hathaway is hot, but DWP should not have done as well as it did. SR should have dominated, and it didn't. Why? People were bored, and word is getting out.

The initial novelty of seeing SR on-screen is great, but there's no repeatability factor. It's a rather boring film.

 

[GhostPoet]

We didn't need "just" Lex. Everyone knows who Superman is. There's no need to "reintroduce" him. People act like no one's ever heard of him. If they used just Lex, then why introduce the kid? If you want to reintroduce Superman, why bring in a character that may drag the franchise down with Jason?

Singer and his complete waste of storywriters (Harris & Daugherty) took a gamble with this story, and it didn't connect. It was out of touch with today's audience.

I've given seminars on the subject of Superheroes as a modern myth and symbols in the world at the university, and I will say, that people are more informed than some might be led to believe. I don't have have to hold everyone's hand, and explain things as much as people might think.

This film would have benefitted with a supervillain to supplement Luthor. Someone to provide more action. As it was, this film was boring. Good actors, but it was a weak story. Strong concept, but the kid dragged the film down with a weak story.

I think the kid worked great. I had MAJOR dread after hearing about it...but now I see just how great it worked for the Superman character. It added a whole new level of depth. And the last scene where Superman is talking to the kid was such a powerful character scene. But then I like the fact the film had heart.

 

[GhostPoet]

Well that's fine if you disagree.

Time will tell, but this film has obviously not done well, and the sheep who are still heralding Singer as the greatest thing since sliced bread are doing damage control to save his dignity. Singer's a good director, and I do like many of his films. That said, he was in way over his head, and his fetish for the Donner film as well as his insistence to use those two worthless pieces of trash Harris and Daugherty may be his undoing. Time will tell, and time seems to be telling us something right now with regards to the turnout. If this film was going to do the bulk of its intake, it would have done it this past week.

It performed rather dismally considering what it was up against. Granted, Anne Hathaway is hot, but DWP should not have done as well as it did. SR should have dominated, and it didn't. Why? People were bored, and word is getting out.

The initial novelty of seeing SR on-screen is great, but there's no repeatability factor. It's a rather boring film.

Uhh...since when it it not do well? The Box Office has been great.

 

[The Bruce]

Give Lex a battle suit and have him trade blows with Superman.....

 

[Mr. Socko]

Yes, it's just stuipd that Lex has to always be the villian and no one else.

 

[Showtime]

Well that's fine if you disagree.

Time will tell, but this film has obviously not done well, and the sheep who are still heralding Singer as the greatest thing since sliced bread are doing damage control to save his dignity. Singer's a good director, and I do like many of his films. That said, he was in way over his head, and his fetish for the Donner film as well as his insistence to use those two worthless pieces of trash Harris and Daugherty may be his undoing. Time will tell, and time seems to be telling us something right now with regards to the turnout. If this film was going to do the bulk of its intake, it would have done it this past week.

It performed rather dismally considering what it was up against. Granted, Anne Hathaway is hot, but DWP should not have done as well as it did. SR should have dominated, and it didn't. Why? People were bored, and word is getting out.

The initial novelty of seeing SR on-screen is great, but there's no repeatability factor. It's a rather boring film.

I disagree on the direction of the 2nd film, I think the overbearing tributes and Donner laced dialogue won't be found in a sequel if Singer was to be at the helm. This was a wake, funeral, and memorial to Donner's best intentions.

I wouldn't call a writing team pieces of trash just because you didn't like the movie. It's like saying I am a piece of trash because I don't think the sequel will be another Donner tribute. The script is alot different than the movie actually. I liked what they did with the X-Men 2 script as well. It's a good read for a superhero movie.

I do think that viewers were turned off by storyline, which I found quite enjoyable.

 

[hk_spyke]

This movie did have a very powerful supervillian. His name was Bryan Singer, and even Superman didn't have the strength to stand up against him.

LOL..............better watch out he's going after Batman next.

 

[hk_spyke]

I'm thinking we'll get Brainiac next film. That would be a nice choice.

yeah i'm thinking those Kryptonian Data Crystals that got thrown into space may have something to do with Brainiac.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I thought Lex Luthor was a badass Super Villian . Spacey just owned the role, his preformance was superb! .He showed his Darkside When he beat the crap out of SUPERMAN on New Krypton .

 

[GarudA]

Uhh...since when it it not do well? The Box Office has been great.

It has been "Ok" Not great. Great is Spiderman, Star Wars numbers.

 

[GarudA]

yeah i'm thinking those Kryptonian Data Crystals that got thrown into space may have something to do with Brainiac.

Explain how it could be Brainiac?

 

[hk_spyke]

well lets put it this way... Superman 1 had no super villain. and it was a good movie. kindof a setup movie.
then Superman 2 there were 3 super villains. and that was awesome! the best Superman film of the 4.

with that said, i really hope and want and think there needs to be a super villain that Superman can "fight" in the next movie! we need some fight scenes, like Spider-Man VS Green Goblin, and Spider-Man VS Doc Ock. i mean Superman 2 had a great classic fight scene, but we need to see some new cgi stuff for Superman fighting against a supervillian. I'd love to see Superman fight Bizzaro or Solomon Grundy or someone strong.

IMO there should be 3 more movies that way there would be 6 in total counting superman 1 & 2 and it should go something like this.......

Superman 1 = Lex Luthor
Superman 2 = ZOD , Ursa , Non and Lex Luthor
Superman Returns = Lex Luthor
Superman 4 = Metallo, Parasite and Lex Luthor (Cameo by Brainiac & Darkseid) ....Brainiac gives Lex the means to make Mettallo and Parasite to kill Superman. Darkseid is seen only as a shadowy Figure giving Brainiac orders.
Superman 5 = Brainiac, Bizarro and Lex Luthor (Cameo by Darkseid)
Brainiac and Lex make Bizarro and start to take over the world as superman is busy fighting Bizarro. in the last fight after superman defeats Bizarro, Brainiac and Lex Bond into one being. ending with Brainiac dying or so it seems. and Lex going back to jail. Darkseid again running everything from the shadows
Superman 6 = Darkseid , Brainiac, Doomsday and Lex Luthor??? Brainiac and Darkseid make Doomsday to kill Superman. Superman defeats Doomsday but "dies" doing so. Darkseid and Brainiac start to take over the world but superman comes "back to life" and kills Brainiac and gets into a hand to hand fight with Darkseid (much like the last episode of JLU). Lex could be in there somewhere made helping superman cause he wants to to rule the earth.

 

[hk_spyke]

Explain how it could be Brainiac?

just lead Brainiac to earth.

 

[Sane]

Short answer: Yes

Long answer:

First, I don't post here often or lurk here often so some of these comments may be more appropriate for a thread I may have missed...so please forgive me ahead of time. Also, let me state that I found the movie rather enjoyable, however I do agree with those that believe a super villain and super battle was what SR lacked to give it more of a home run hit...

Okay, to the meat of my post. In general I think both sides of the argument stem from a dose of fanboyism...either you like the Donner/New Singer's emotional human take to Superman or you want the comic version. For me, I wanted a mix of both. Someone here already made a contradicting statement in regards to Batman Begins and why there was no Joker, and I completely agreed with why Joker was absent in the first New Batman film...simply because everybody in the world has/had seen the Joker vs. Batman arc in comics, books, television shows and of course the old movies. Is this not the same issue with Superman? I don't see how people can ignore this simple fact that the Lex vs Superman arc has been beaten into our brains for decades. IT IS THE REASON PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER VILLAINS, and the reason SR needed a new villain or another villain.

IMO, it's debatable as to whether or not Lex is Superman's greatest villain, but that's not the point of this thread. Also, as I said in the first sentence, this is also a dose of fanboyism...so it's a bit hypocritical to blast those of us that wanted and want a super powered villian on the basis of our fanboyism. With that said, this movie was a completely redone version of Superman: The Movie with additives. The real estate scheme Lex cooked up although different in mechanics bares strong resemblance to the scheme of Lex in Superman: The Movie. Thus, this makes this model of Lex just weak...very weak and makes the hero vs enemy theme kind of lame here. We've seen Superman save people. cities and what not from natural disasters in Superman: The Movie, and while that material doesn't need to be removed...it doesn't need to be the only material/action in the movie. It could have been better and on par with Spiderman in my opinion. Unlike most people, I thought X1 and X2 were okay and X3 took it more back to the comic book although origins and the like were still screwed up...small stuff is okay but a comic book movie is supposed to be just that a comic book movie...it's not a romantic comedy, romantic drama, suspense, mystery...make you think film, unless of course thats the story arc you are pulling the direction of the film from. Donner, Singer and company clearly reinvented Superman, much like Singer and Company nearly reinvented the X-men.

I'm rambling...what I'm getting at is a super villain would not have hurt this film at all...although it had powerful scenes and emotional this and that...it was the same old same old story we saw about 20 years ago in Superman: The Movie...with additives and new faces I might add. It's not about a bunch of brainless guys wanting to see a slugfest, it's about making sure one of your favorite characters gets his due...his whole due and not what some guys interpret...his whole due is seeing him protect the world against both men in it and threats from beyond it....

I get tired of hearing the excuse that these characters need to be "down to Earth." As a creator (hobbyist until I one day get noticed) myself I don't create characters to be "too real," if people wanted to see a realistic film complete with emotional this and that (which nothing is wrong with that by the way) they would have went to see one of the many other films out there that gives them that...No I think people went into the theater to see Superman...not a soap opera, not a comedy romance, romantic drama, or whatever...but Superman, an action oriented, suspense film with a little romance and situations that help you root for the good guy and hate the villain...this film lacked that due to its weak representation of all characters and lack of impact on the villain vs hero. Which in conclusion makes me feel that there should have been a super villain to counter the weak model of Lex presented...

Sane

 

[terry78]

^ You are correct, sir. Ha-ha-haaaaa.

 

[Rols574]

I've given seminars on the subject of Superheroes as a modern myth and symbols in the world at the university, and I will say, that people are more informed than some might be led to believe. I don't have have to hold everyone's hand, and explain things as much as people might think.

ok thats the second time you have mentioned this in this thread alone and now its sounding borderline bragging and arrogance.

anyway, if you are giving seminars on Superman........who do you think will go to such things?

THATS RIGHT! SUPERMAN FANS.

i wonder if superman fans know about his past?

 

[hk_spyke]

ok thats the second time you have mentioned this in this thread alone and now its sounding borderline bragging and arrogance.

anyway, if you are giving seminars on Superman........who do you think will go to such things?

THATS RIGHT! SUPERMAN FANS.

i wonder if superman fans know about his past?

well 97% of the superman fans i know are only fans cause of the movies and don't know anything about him in the comics. Smallville is what made me a fan l like the retelling and updated superhero storys like smallville , batman begins and Ultimate Spider-Man comics etc. i've never really liked the superman movies. IMO the only good parts of Superman Returns compard to the older movies is the FX and the fact that Lex was more "evil" and not making jokes all the time. Should have reinvented it like they did with batman begins. but i guess this way they don't have to retell his origins story

 

[Superman \S/]

It didn't need a super villain, Lex was just fine. Since this was sort of a continuation of Superman I and II it was just right. The whole thing of Superman and Lex Luthor is Superman is powerful strong and etc. Lex feels him being the richest man in Metropolis, his money is his own power. Therefore Superman being the one people look up to and Lex being the one who can own as he pleases. The plot of New Krpyton and having a connection to Superman was great.

 

[JTStarkiller]

I think Lex worked well in this one, but I'm extremely excited to see what comes next.

 

[Superman \S/]

Same here!

 

[JTStarkiller]

I like SII, but I've never been the biggest fan of it. (Although Donner's new cut could be good).

To me, the only two great Superman films are STM and SR, which means I'm still waiting for that awesome Superman vs. supervillain movie, and I know we're getting it next.