Superman Returns Do you think this film needed a super villain?

[WormyT]

Not sure if a Supervillian would have fixed the VERY dumb plot but it would have distracted us from it so maybe.

 

[WormyT]

I thought Lex Luthor was a badass Super Villian . Spacey just owned the role, his preformance was superb! .He showed his Darkside When he beat the crap out of SUPERMAN on New Krypton .

They had about one line between them!!! There was no tension no drama between Superman and Lex. Followed by a piss poor beatdown scene.

 

[Timstuff]

SR needed a supervillain desperately. Seriously, when you're spending $250 million on a modern-day Superhero epic, you need something more than just catching airplanes and throwing giant objects into space. I don't care if this was the "first chapter" in a trilogy-- with Spider-Man, Batman Begins, and even Bryan Singer's own X-Men they knew well enough that they needed a good fight scene or three in there. And now, Singer's descision could very well mean that another Superman flick won't happen for a long time, and it certainly won't be under his direction.

 

[Rols574]

well 97% of the superman fans i know are only fans cause of the movies and don't know anything about him in the comics. Smallville is what made me a fan l like the retelling and updated superhero storys like smallville

you proved my point. you know because you are a fan. you dont have to be a die hard fan, but just a fan. Enough to know about his origins. since you only watched the movies are you aware of all those villians they are mentioning? i would hardly think so.
​

 

[dpm07]

SR needed a supervillain desperately. Seriously, when you're spending $250 million on a modern-day Superhero epic, you need something more than just catching airplanes and throwing giant objects into space. I don't care if this was the "first chapter" in a trilogy-- with Spider-Man, Batman Begins, and even Bryan Singer's own X-Men they knew well enough that they needed a good fight scene or three in there. And now, Singer's descision could very well mean that another Superman flick won't happen for a long time, and it certainly won't be under his direction.

Movies like LOTR and POTC prove that you can have great action complementing a great story and have great emotion and drama. These films have had great heroes and villains. Singerman and his whack pack of fools Harris & Daugherty are paying the price for their emotionally heavy and action lacking film. They proved how out of touch they truly are by not putting in a supervillain to complement Luthor, and making Superman's climax the lifting of a rock. They also blew it by having a kid in the film. Bad move, and one that has turned off a lot of fans. Singer needs to look to guys like Peter Jackson, Gore Verbinski, Jerry Bruckheimer, and Sam Raimi to see how things should be done with heroes and villains.

Singer just didn't get it, and because of this, the world didn't get Superman's Return. They got Jason's Arrival.

 

[kame-sennin]

X-Men was certainly not known for epic brawls as Spider-Man was.

No they are separate movies, so no. People expect to see what they are familiar with. In the case of Superman they expect to see Lex Luthor hatch an evil scheme that somehow involves krytonite, not a wacky Superman clone or evil netherworld despot fight him.

And what about Lex Luthor creating a kryptonite powered henchmen in Metallo? What would be so hard for the general audience to accept about that? Lex is still the main villain, and Metallo has an extremely simple origin: criminal gets put in a superior android body. I honestly fail to see the logic in your argument. If the general public expects only Luthor, does that mean we will be stuck with him as the villain for the rest of this franchise? And if not, why can't we introduce superpowered villains in this film, especially ones like Metallo or Parasite, who could be easily tied into Luthor plot lines? I'd even settle for Lex in an exo-suit if you think the average movie goer so desperatley craves Lex Luthor.

My personal opinion is that this film desperatley needed a supervillain for many reasons. The so-called "fanboys" have been begging for one for years; the general audience does expect climactic battles in their super hero films because the standard has been set; and most importantly, a film where Superman averts natural dissasters and foils Lex Luthor's real estate scams is available for anyone to rent at blockbuster video. We've all been there and done that, it's time for something new.

ok fine, you want darkseid. in 90 minutes please explain to me how to explain his origings the reason, why he and superman are enemies (without any backstory i may add...he was never mentioned in any of the movies) what his powers are, why he is the leader of his world, explain why he is attacking earth and why superman has been gone a long time. once again..... how do you fit 70 years of history into that amount of time?

Didn't the animated series explain it in like two or three 30 minute episodes?

 

[kame-sennin]

Question:

Overlord,

And do you honestly think that people would understand what the heck is going on if Superman fought some supervillian out of nowhere.

You have to warm up to because he's been gone from the cinema for 19 years. You can't do it all in one film. This is a reintroduction to the character for general audiences. They had to do what's familiar. And seeing has Lex is The VILLIAN for Superman, it was the right way to go.

Now, we can get into all the supervillians you fans are clamouring for.

Answer:

Superman 101 would teach you that Lex MUST be the villian for a first entry. There is no denying that. A 5 minute origin works for a lackey Supervillian (I.E. Metallo. Have him robbing a bank, police fire bullets, Superman deflects the bullets from the accomplice, but Corben gets shot. He is loaded into an ambulence by someone the audience recognizes as one of Lex's henchmen. We cut to Lex's lab, learn Corben has died, but they have kept his mind and reanimated him as part cyborg.) Badda bing, badda boom. You have Metallo. He resents Superman for saving his partner while allowing his life to be destroyed. He is Lex's lackey. He does things Lex cannot (a super villian fight). In other words, you have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Ass Assassin]

A supervillain in Superman Returns would probaby mean the hole in my soul wouldn't be quite as deep as it is now.

 

[Ass Assassin]

Meh... somebody please get rid of these extra posts.

 

[Grim Goblin]

Yeah, the movie definately needed a super villain. It needed a lot of thing too but a good throw down would have been a nice change of pace from the rest of the movie.

Now that I think about it, is it just me or did the movie looks like it was filmed by Bendis? I'm not a hater of the guy but there are so many silent shots of characters looking meaningfully at the horizon that it reminded me of Bendis a lot.

 

[hk_spyke]

you proved my point. you know because you are a fan. you dont have to be a die hard fan, but just a fan. Enough to know about his origins. since you only watched the movies are you aware of all those villians they are mentioning? i would hardly think so.

​

yes i'm well aware of his villains. i started reading up on him after i got hooked on Smallville. i'm a "die hard Fan" when it comes to knowing stuff about superman but not a die hard fan when it comes to liking everything he's is in or getting mad when a movie, cartoon or comic he's in sucks. i only like some of the "takes" on him.

 

[SuperDaniel]

No. This movie didn`t need a Supervillain. It needed a good villain with a plan that actually makes sense.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I think if Metallo had been in it, people might have been happier.

The haters, atleast.

 

[HulkofSteel]

A villain with a good plan would have helped a lot. A whole movie that flowed better and made better sense would have helped a lot too. There were too many assumptions made and it just seemed too loose. I would be rather happy if Singer went back to X-Men and stayed away from Superman. He just didn't quite do it for me. Another botched attempt at portraying the Man of Steel and perhaps his most dangerous enemy.

 

[ivaniski]

What's the big deal with Superman 2, Those fight scenes were horrific; they looked like there were choreographed by a (no pun intended) an itern at PBS' Sesame street......Pick up Zod ...swing zod...Throw Zod. Where's the Beef !!!
The other day, My cousin and i got into a heated discussion on this film S2; I informed him that Supes never threw a punch in this movie nor any of his last five movies... includes Supes Returns, he never throws a single punch..... So he bets me $500 that Superman threw a punch in S2 movie. He said that Supes picks up Zod because he punched him in the stomach. I accepted the bet and won. The only time that Supes ever threw a punch was when he punched.....This is embarrasing to say ......Are you ready ; Major Spoiler here ! .......When he punched himself...Yeah himself ...Superman vs.Clark Kent In Superman 3....isn't this ridiculous. In reference to the bet i said "never punched a villian" and that's not counting that sissy hammer punch to the Nuclear guys' back in Superman 4. Everybody praises the Donner films. But, i say those movies had too much camp; Although i loved Chris Reeve. I think perhaps Warner has a clause that maybe it's unconstitutional to have Big Blue punch a villian in the face......Poor execution Guys. What's wrong with having a little John Wayne punchfest.

 

[Speedball]

Yes-Brainiac

 

[el brujo138]

Movies like LOTR and POTC prove that you can have great action complementing a great story and have great emotion and drama. These films have had great heroes and villains. Singerman and his whack pack of fools Harris & Daugherty are paying the price for their emotionally heavy and action lacking film. They proved how out of touch they truly are by not putting in a supervillain to complement Luthor, and making Superman's climax the lifting of a rock. They also blew it by having a kid in the film. Bad move, and one that has turned off a lot of fans. Singer needs to look to guys like Peter Jackson, Gore Verbinski, Jerry Bruckheimer, and Sam Raimi to see how things should be done with heroes and villains.

Singer just didn't get it, and because of this, the world didn't get Superman's Return. They got Jason's Arrival.

You make a lot of good points in this post, the people claming that there is nothing wrong with SR use the lame excuse that action and drama can not co-exist. A hero is only as great as the threat he faces. Superman in his return needed a great threat to re-establish himself as THE hero, something that did not happen in SR.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

I think yes. There should have been a bad guy.
We got Lex or a watered down version. One where he hangs with a floosie who serves no purpose. Why would Lex hang around with Parker P.? For what? He's a great mastermind he doens't need her, does he?
Lame.

 

[Bale]

METALLO by Byrne, remember Man of Steel and the first Metallo coming up, the green kryptonite inside...that would be great and some IN Fights with Metallo in Metropolis.
You cant do a NO-Superherovillain in a BIG Superhero Movie, look at Fantastic Four 2, they have Silver Surfer, they are tryin to do something, they want it to be bigger.

Superman and Lex arent enough nowadays, Raimi ist the Best Man around, wether you like Marvel or not. He is a great Director, a FAN , he knows the things and watchin Spider Man 3 Trailer there is something BIG coming.

If there is a sequel, hope so, there is a new direction needed, more superhero villains and NO ZOD,Luthor or any other character presented by Lester or Donner.

Come up with Metallo,Doomsday,Brainiac,Parasite,Bizarro (but not Mxzyptlk). All 5 and big Fights, THATS Superman, not supermouse, Supersoul,Superemotional,Supersoftie,Superwack.

Routh is great, they can keep him and the rest, but do something about the Writers, bring in some Comic Fans like Byrne or Goyer or I dont know, someone who is involved with DC and their writers/authors.

WB has to do something about that problem or we can wait another 20 years, and that makes me very SAD.

 

[HulkofSteel]

I hope the next Superman movie only uses Superman Returns as a "vague history." I know the past can't be undone, but it can be ignored and glossed over, and that is what should be done with the Jason storyline and the typical writing for the Luthor character. The next Superman movie better not be a sequel and it better not be done by Singer and company.

 

[Ass Assassin]

I would have killed for the animated interpetation of Lex Luthor in this movie. That may have made the lack of a supervillain a lot less glaring.

 

[matthooper]

Taking Lex out completely and putting in a super villian might have saved the film.

However, Singer might have screwed up a super villian just as bad as he did with Luthor and his "plan".

 

[Octoberist]

and give Brainiac a polo shirt and a speedo?

 

[dpm07]

I would have killed for the animated interpetation of Lex Luthor in this movie. That may have made the lack of a supervillain a lot less glaring.

I really believe if they'd incorporated many of the STAS elements that we would have had a film that we could be proud of, and it would have had emotion, drama, action, romance, heart, etc. Timm/Dini understood Superman, and understood how to make him work with today's audiences, and this reverberated over to the JL/JLU. Singer's insistence at distancing himself from STAS was probably a blow to Timm/Dini and all the hard work they've done with the DCAU, but in the end, they are probably getting the last laugh because they know their heart and soul into the character has more substance than Singer and the whack pack (Harris & Daugherty) did with SR.

Singer did everything to make Superman boring. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but the fact that his ego allowed him to exclude so many facets that have made Superman popular at the insistence of using only the Donner film has become his undoing.

Perfect example is STAS/JL/JLU. They took the elements that made Superman work, and made it work for the fans. Singer did the opposite, and the result is showing.

This film suffers from many aspects. Most notably taking a great concept and giving us a poor story. In regards to a supervillain, we could have had a great opportunity to introduce LexCorp Lex and a henchmen like Metallo or Parasite, or someone else in a first film. We could have had the film wrap up with a tease toward Brainiac the way Batman Begins did. However, in all likelihood, Singer didn't go this route because it wouldn't be the Donner way.

My guess is that he may be preparing to introduce a new villain to the mix that is not a part of Superman's Rogues Gallery. Why? He wants to keep in similar vein to what Donner did, and his ego has likely been hurt by the deserved bad word of mouth his film has gotten. His ego will likely want to create a villain with a Kryptonian theme (not Brainiac), and give that to us. What do I have to support my view? Nothing. This is just speculation and opinion.

One thing I do believe is that we will have Singer for a sequel unfortunately. WB has pumped a lot of money into this, and into Singer's vision. It's going to be hard for them to do an about face. Singer will also be at Comic Con, and I'm interested in how safe the questions will be. Also, will Singer admit that he miscalculated things based on his approach, and if so, what can he do to rectify things if anything. I'd be willing to guess his ego won't own up to the fact that he miscalculated the audience's interpretations of what a great modern day superhero film should be, and most definitely what a Superman film could have been.

 

[hk_spyke]

I really believe if they'd incorporated many of the STAS elements that we would have had a film that we could be proud of, and it would have had emotion, drama, action, romance, heart, etc. Timm/Dini understood Superman, and understood how to make him work with today's audiences, and this reverberated over to the JL/JLU. Singer's insistence at distancing himself from STAS was probably a blow to Timm/Dini and all the hard work they've done with the DCAU, but in the end, they are probably getting the last laugh because they know their heart and soul into the character has more substance than Singer and the whack pack (Harris & Daugherty) did with SR.

Singer did everything to make Superman boring. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but the fact that his ego allowed him to exclude so many facets that have made Superman popular at the insistence of using only the Donner film has become his undoing.

Perfect example is STAS/JL/JLU. They took the elements that made Superman work, and made it work for the fans. Singer did the opposite, and the result is showing.

This film suffers from many aspects. Most notably taking a great concept and giving us a poor story. In regards to a supervillain, we could have had a great opportunity to introduce LexCorp Lex and a henchmen like Metallo or Parasite, or someone else in a first film. We could have had the film wrap up with a tease toward Brainiac the way Batman Begins did. However, in all likelihood, Singer didn't go this route because it wouldn't be the Donner way.

My guess is that he may be preparing to introduce a new villain to the mix that is not a part of Superman's Rogues Gallery. Why? He wants to keep in similar vein to what Donner did, and his ego has likely been hurt by the deserved bad word of mouth his film has gotten. His ego will likely want to create a villain with a Kryptonian theme (not Brainiac), and give that to us. What do I have to support my view? Nothing. This is just speculation and opinion.

One thing I do believe is that we will have Singer for a sequel unfortunately. WB has pumped a lot of money into this, and into Singer's vision. It's going to be hard for them to do an about face. Singer will also be at Comic Con, and I'm interested in how safe the questions will be. Also, will Singer admit that he miscalculated things based on his approach, and if so, what can he do to rectify things if anything. I'd be willing to guess his ego won't own up to the fact that he miscalculated the audience's interpretations of what a great modern day superhero film should be, and most definitely what a Superman film could have been.

i agree 100 % i have a question for everyone. if he comes out and says he mess up would you guys give him another chance with another movie?
IMO the movie would have been find if they have one of his "creepy friends" he made in jail was John Corben, and in the beginning of the movie he gets hurt somehow involing Superman and Lex uses the money he just got to turn him into Metallo. he could have stole the kryptonite power Metallo instead. then theres a one on one fight between them at the end. i'll keep that gang beating secne somewhere in there too cause i like that part of the movie. the only thing i'd change would be when Lex stabs him and says "now fly" he should have push him off that would have made that whole thing better.