Does marvel really have a problem with making their villains cool?

[Chris B]

It's nothing to do with what Black said. I've actually read the comics. The Mandarin in 99% of his portrayals is a lame Fu Manchu rip off who has cool alien rings. Nothing more.

Now, the Haunted storyline, which is widely regarded as one of the best Iron Man stories ever, features a Mandarin who is a shady business man behind the scenes who manipulates Maya Hansen(you know the female in IM3) to enhance Extremis into an airborne virus by pretending his motives are for the betterment of mankind, but they are actually to create an army (is this ringing any bells?).

Iron Man 3 clearly takes inspiration from this story line. Aldrich Killian in IM3 is pretty much exactly like the Mandarin in that story line.

I think they should still use that story as a template for when/if they do the real Mandarin down the line.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Now Guardians of the Galaxy exists in the MCU we very well could have a Mandarin that technology doesn't need to explain, as much as I would love a bad ass Mandarin, I can't see 'the real' Mandarin making a return, it would feel like a cop out and repeating a villain so to speak, although I don't really know who else you could put in an Iron Man sequel, his villains are pretty lame.

It's confirmed that the real Mandarin will make an appearance. Most likely in IM4

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I agree. For a character who was supposed to be genetically engineered to be a great military leader... he was awfully shouty and prone to temper tantrums.

I didn't mind Shannon's performance (although the idea it is one of the best ever is laughable), but the Zod character is just a teeming mass of contradictions.

It would have been cool to see a more calm and tactically minded Zod. Michael Shannon excels at playing sinister, cold characters, who have rage bubbling underneath the surface. I think Zod would have been a better character if he was eerily cold and calm throughout the entire movie... until his "purpose" was made redundant with the destruction of the genesis chamber. Then we see Shannon explode with rage. That would have made for a more compelling and powerful portrayal in my view.

I agree. I thought the concept of the character was good but It was terribly executed. He had to explain himself at the end why he was "bad" rather than the film itself showing us.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Maybe the reason why I don't care about the Mandarin is because I was never excited about him in the first place. I actually remember the first time I saw IM3 I was annoyed everytime he was on those broadcasts because he felt extremely generic with his dumb speeches about America. The twist is what made me like the movie because everytime I imagine Iron Man fighting an old dude with magic rings I just cringe.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I thought this thread was about marvel villians

It is! But people pretend like Marvel's opponent has much better villains and they don't, like...at all.

 

[metaphysician]

It's confirmed that the real Mandarin will make an appearance. Most likely in IM4

Evidence or its a rumor.

 

[Kiltman]

Evidence or its a rumor.

There is not confirmation it'll happen.

But in the One-Shot it is confirmed the Areal Mandarin exists, and he was none to pleased about the bastardization of him that Killian & Trevor concocted.

 

[DA_Champion]

The Marvel one shot retconning the Mandarin was pretty lame.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Evidence or its a rumor.

maybe i'm mistaken, but i thought feige confirmed marvel's intent to redo Mandarin

 

[Doc Ock]

I think all of Marvel's villains have been "cool" but haven't exactly been developed enough to be iconic or memorable with the exception of Loki and maybe even Winter Soldier. I would love to see the likes of Red Skull and Malekith again if it means much more development because I really like the characters and the actors that portrayed them.

The Marvel one shot retconning the Mandarin was pretty lame.

To each their own, but I didn't see it as a retcon but a perfect progression and it made get excited and enjoy Iron Man 3 more than I already did!

 

[Mad Ones]

Most of Marvel's villains are evil for the sake of being evil. Loki and Winter Soldier are exceptions and they're easily the most popular. Villains from other studios, like Magneto, Doc Oc, etc are more memorable because they're not "evil." I don't care if I ever see Red Skull or Malekith again.

 

[Sexy Magician]

It's confirmed that the real Mandarin will make an appearance. Most likely in IM4

Really? I never heard that

 

[Doc Ock]

Most of Marvel's villains are evil for the sake of being evil. Loki and Winter Soldier are exceptions and they're easily the most popular. Villains from other studios, like Magneto, Doc Oc, etc are more memorable because they're not "evil." I don't care if I ever see Red Skull or Malekith again.

I love villains who are evil for the sake of bein evil.

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

I thought Ronan was actually pretty damn good in GOTG, the way he *****-slapped the Other was awesome. He was just overshadowed by the charisma of the Guardians themselves.

Malekith is a weird one...Marvel obviously don't want his character development scenes seeing the light of day for some reason (maybe the idea of Bor killing is family made Thor's lineage seem too unlikeable) so he's pretty much just a stock boogeyman. Now if he were the gleeful sadistic foe he was in the comics then we would have an awesome villain.

 

[Human Torch]

Right now my rankings would be...

1. Red Skull - Good but not great. Could have been better, didn't reach it's potential.
2. Loki - Good in The Avengers, annoying in Thor 1 and not really a villain in Thor 2. He's been solid overall.
3. Abomination - Again, good not great. CGI could have been better.
4. Winter Soldier - Good not great.
5. Ivan Vanko - Above Average
6. Eric Savan - Above average
7. Aldrich Killian - Above average
8. Alexander Pierce - Above average
9. Obadiah Stane - Above average
10. The Destroyer - GREAT but since it's just a machine with no personality or motivations and not much screen time I can't put it any higher.
11. King Laufey - Wasn't much of a threat, was good otherwise.
12. Justin Hammer - Corny
13. Malekith - Crap
14. Trevor Slattery - Horrendous, nothing special before the ******ed bait and switch either.

I don't really get when people say that.I thought Loki was MUCH more compelling in the first film.He was complex.You could kinda feel for his struggle to prove himself the worthy son.

In Avengers (and don't get me wrong,I loved the film and Tom's performance) he has a cosmic nervous breakdown that results in him becoming a mustache twerlling villain, wanting people to kneel and a desire to begin - THE WAR.

In Thor 2,it was basically the reverse of the Avengers where he was almost too laid back."Eh,I'll sit on the sidelines while **** is going down.I'll get my chance later."

I guess it's cool that his character keeps evolving,but I think his most compelling was still in that first movie.

 

[Mike Murdock]

^ I agree that he was better in Thor than in Avengers (there's a wonderful Cracked article about how he deceived no one in that movie). But I quite liked his role in Thor 2. However, I don't really consider him a villain of that movie, more of an anti-hero or begrudging ally. He had a character arc that went from depression to back to form, but he obviously had some heroic moments as well.

It's confirmed that the real Mandarin will make an appearance. Most likely in IM4

Neither "the Mandarin will make an appearance" nor "IM4" are confirmed. It's confirmed that the real Mandarin exists in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but that's hardly the same thing as saying he'll make an appearance. I find it hard to believe that they'd want to make Iron Man 4 about the Mandarin. It would be confusing for marketing, at a minimum.

 

[metaphysician]

Its also not confirmed at all that the "real" Mandarin is anything in particular. Going off the evidence available, he's most likely a second rate unpowered mastermind.

 

[Steamteck]

I honestly don't understand why some rogues galleries are considered genius and others are lame. I do know that I often disagree. There's nothing wrong with iron man's villains, Thor's are great, Captain America's are fine.

On to MCU villains

Red Skull - he was quite enjoyable there was room for improvement but he was good.
Loki - pretty much the gold standard. they nailed him
Abomination - I liked his portrayal very much both man and monster were engaging.
Winter Soldier - he was fine but he's just starting I feel
Ivan Vanko - lots of wasted potential. I wish they'd kept his deleted scenes.
Aldrich Killian -I truly hated this character and not in a good way. completely failed for me
Obadiah Stane - preferred him to the comics version actually
Laufey - he played his part well but not the main problem
Malekith -he was fine. I'd like to have seen more details but I got it and him just fine.

 

[DOBSON10]

I don't really get when people say that.I thought Loki was MUCH more compelling in the first film.He was complex.You could kinda feel for his struggle to prove himself the worthy son.

In Avengers (and don't get me wrong,I loved the film and Tom's performance) he has a cosmic nervous breakdown that results in him becoming a mustache twerlling villain, wanting people to kneel and a desire to begin - THE WAR.

In Thor 2,it was basically the reverse of the Avengers where he was almost too laid back."Eh,I'll sit on the sidelines while **** is going down.I'll get my chance later."

I guess it's cool that his character keeps evolving,but I think his most compelling was still in that first movie.

I understand what you mean about the motivation/complexity of his role in Thor compared to The Avengers. It is deeper in that sense. But I just found Hiddleston incredibly annoying in Thor. But Hiddleston has grown on me some as time's gone on, so maybe if I watch Thor again I would agree. I've only seen Thor once and I just remember wanting him to shut up pretty much the entire time. I liked his more angry portrayal in The Avengers but that's a personal preference anyway. I prefer villains to be dark, intimidating, demanding, violent, remorseless and unrelenting. Hiddleston's never reached that level for me but he came closer to being that type of villain in The Avengers. In Thor he just came off as a whiny self entitled jealous little brother, bickering because he wasn't the favorite son.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Whaat? He was basically angry all the time and shouting his lines, he was one of the most bland performances in the movie, also the villain's motivations were nonsensical, every decision he made made things worse for himself and Krypton. There was no depth to his character or Shannon's performance which is sad considering he's a great actor.

I disagree. I really felt what he was conveying. It was a very emotional role. All he cared about was the survival of his race. He wasn't just "angry." If anything, Ronan was just "angry." And I liked Ronan.

 

[Human Torch]

I actually thought Shannon was a bit too reserved at times.I got the sense that he was holding back.I kept feeling someone should let him off the chain.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I hope we don't get the real Mandarin, as curious as I am about how they would portray them I think "All Hail King" was enough to give credibility to the character. I wanna see a new villain, does Iron Man have other cool villain that should be adapted to the movies?

 

[Chance Jackson]

I'm pretty sure Brolin's "no former music video directors" comment was a dig at Zack Snyder.

First of all, Josh Brolin has NO ROOM to talk **** on Zack Snyder.

You wanna know why? Well that's because his voice for Thanos was lame as hell. Not in the least bit threatening or scary. It just sounded like Josh Brolin.

I don't think his voice work was lame but JB does not have the Gravitas of Keith David or Michael Ironside(Despero and Darkseid respectively)

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't really get when people say that.I thought Loki was MUCH more compelling in the first film.He was complex.You could kinda feel for his struggle to prove himself the worthy son.

I agree with this statement!

 

[Sexy Magician]

I hope we don't get the real Mandarin, as curious as I am about how they would portray them I think "All Hail King" was enough to give credibility to the character. I wanna see a new villain, does Iron Man have other cool villain that should be adapted to the movies?

No he doesent