No Way Home "Down Came The Goblin, and Took The Spider Out" - Willem Dafoe Needs His Thread Too

[Arachnerd]

That's what I'm assuming. Norman comes into the MCU wearing the tattered suit, then suits up with this one.

 

[MasterBoss]

I know what you're saying and I disagree with your assessment completely. There was no perfect balance at all. His Goblin was 90% hammy. That's not the definition of balance. Trying to compare Dafoe's Goblin to someone like Palpatine is as comical as Goblin's dialogue. His dialogue is quoted all these years later is it. Why is that notable. I see people use dialogue from the likes of Arnie's Mr. Freeze, too. Are you going to try and tell me that means it was a good performance? Dialogue is often remembered for the wrong reasons. In these cases because its campy bad. People like to look back and laugh and stupid and silly moments from CBM's. Make memes out of them etc. Stupid can be memorable. Like emo dancing Peter in SM-3 for example.

No lets pretend Molina wasn't hammy. Because he wasn't. One singular moment where he says nothing will stand in our way does not turn his performance into a hammy one. Molina played it straight menacingly for the most part. Yes Raimi's movies are 60's Spider-Man........that manage to for the most part to tread the fine line between camp and theatrical. That's why they were so beloved and successful. When they started to step over that line.....looking at you Spider-Man 3 and all the emo Peter stuff.....they got hauled over the coals for it. Yeah people look back at it now and laugh and make memes over it. But its still bad. Just like people still quote bad campy dialogue from blatantly bad villain performances like Arnie's Freeze.

Now again I don't think Dafoe's Goblin performance was bad, just a bit too hammy. His overall performance is saved by his Norman Osborn scenes. One of the reasons why when he was resurrected for cameos in the sequels it was as Norman. Because that was his best side. We never saw that hammy Goblin persona....or his costume put on anyone again.

I would prepare to be bummed then. I think his performance is going to be much more reigned in, and hopefully more on the menacing side. I look at how they handled Vulture and Mysterio, two villains who could have easily been hammy as hell. But thankfully they were not. Its one of the reasons I am ok with Foxx's Electro coming back. Because he will be as Foxx himself said a badass this time and not that cringe goofball we got in TASM 2.

One of my favorite lines from any comic book movie ever is his last line in this scene as his glider is malfunctioning away


WEEEEE’LLL MEET AGAIN.....SPIDER MANNNNNN!!!”

That still gives me cold nerd chills to this day. Like what an absolutely perfect reading. It literally sounds like what you think an old-school comic bubble line would sound like reading it in your head. So extravagantly villainous, but also with a strong hint of real wickedness.

And finally, up to his very last line. “....Peter...don’t tell Harry.....”. That is read so well. So much internal conflict and confusion can be heard just in that one line. All when he knows it’s about to end for him.

Foxx's Electro was bad because he was all ham, and not the good kind to the point where it became stupid. It's a delicate line to balance.

 

[The Joker]

One of my favorite lines from any comic book movie ever is his last line in this scene as his glider is malfunctioning away


WEEEEE’LLL MEET AGAIN.....SPIDER MANNNNNN!!!”

That still gives me cold nerd chills to this day. Like what an absolutely perfect reading. It literally sounds like what you think an old-school comic bubble line would sound like reading it in your head. So extravagantly villainous, but also with a strong hint of real wickedness.

And finally, up to his very last line. “....Peter...don’t tell Harry.....”. That is read so well. So much internal conflict and confusion can be heard just in that one line. All when he knows it’s about to end for him.

Foxx's Electro was bad because he all ham, to the point where it became stupid. It's a delicate line to balance.

To each his own, but you're very easily chilled if that gave you goosebumps. Its straight up ham. Like what I expect a Saturday morning Road Runner type cartoon villain to say. All that was missing was him shaking his fist as he flew away.

Peter don't tell Harry line was good. Because that was a Norman scene. Unmasked and bringing it down to some real acting.

 

[Toomes' Phone]

To each his own, but you're very easily chilled if that gave you goosebumps. Its straight up ham. Like what I expect a Saturday morning Road Runner type cartoon villain to say. All that was missing was him shaking his fist as he flew away.

Peter don't tell Harry line was good. Because that was a Norman scene. Unmasked and bringing it down to some real acting.

Dafoe's voice and physicality is what made the Goblin work even in that silly costume. Plus, Sam Raimi is no stranger to making goofy things scary. Evil Dead and Drag Me to Hell are proof positive of that.

 

[The Joker]

Dafoe's voice and physicality is what made the Goblin work even in that silly costume. Plus, Sam Raimi is no stranger to making goofy things scary. Evil Dead and Drag Me to Hell are proof positive of that.

Goblin wasn't scary. His voice, his costume, none of it was scary. Not back in 2002 and certainly not now.

Even in the scenes where he's trying to be scary it comes off comical. People's reactions to him made it even more comical. My favorite was Aunt May's "Deliver us......FROM EEEEEEEEEVIL!!!!"

 

[Toomes' Phone]

Goblin wasn't scary. His voice, his costume, none of it was scary. Not back in 2002 and certainly not now.

Even in the scenes where he's trying to be scary it comes off comical. People's reactions to him made it even more comical. My favorite was Aunt May's "Deliver us......FROM EEEEEEEEEVIL!!!!"

That's fair

 

[Toomes' Phone]

Whatever people's quibbles are with the Goblin's movie costume, we can all at least be grateful that we are never getting that hideous, Shrek-esque design from USM in a live action film. It only worked in ITSV because of how well-crafted that movie is in general and the Goblin isn't onscreen long.

 

[The Caped Knight]

It kinda bears a resemblance to the original design from Spider-Man (2002)

 

[JubJub86]

To each his own, but you're very easily chilled if that gave you goosebumps. Its straight up ham.

Spider-Man's been mostly ham through the majority of his existence, it's part of this.

This particular villain's still one of the scariest mofos in the genre for my money. Terrorising elderly women and dropping kids off bridges and one of the most brutal fist-fights in any of these movies in the finale.

You can dial the cheese up to 11 and still be an awesome villain. MasterBoss is right, that whole sequence is comic-flick caviar of the highest order.

 

[The Joker]

Spider-Man's been mostly ham through the majority of his existence, it's part of this.

This particular villain's still one of the scariest mofos in the genre for my money. Terrorising elderly women and dropping kids off bridges and one of the most brutal fist-fights in any of these movies in the finale.

You can dial the cheese up to 11 and still be an awesome villain. MasterBoss is right, that whole sequence is comic-flick caviar of the highest order.

No he hasn't. Not even remotely. Post 70's the comics took on a more serious tone. I'd even argue they started that in the 70's itself when they started tackling serious issues like drug addiction.

Terrorizing elderly women isn't scary when the sequence itself is comical. Aunt May's reaction is priceless and is a meme. Even her follow up reaction in the hospital - "Those eyes. THOSE HORRIBLE YELLOW EYES!!! OHHHHHH!!". LOL. Its about the only time in the trilogy where the great Rosemary Harris overacted. The concept of dropping the kids off the bridge was good but there wasn't a single moment in that scene where it felt like those kids were actually going to die. Same with MJ. Goblin offers him a choice to save them and you know Spidey being Spidey he'll save both at the same time. Then the boat comes along and you already know that's how they are being saved. The icing on the cake is the Goblin then standing there and letting the citizens of New York verbally abuse him while throwing trash at him. As Ledger's Joker would say; What happened did your balls drop off? Its the antithesis of an intimidating villain in my book.

Even his actual murders were comical. My favorite being the Oscorp execs turning into instant skeletons lol. I remember my theater laughing at that one. The only kill he did where it felt creepy was Stromm's. And surprise surprise it was a scene as Norman not Goblin.

The only villain in the Raimi movies who was legit menacing was Doc Ock, IMO. The hospital sequence murders were savage. When New York citizens try to stand up to him to protect Spidey he smashes them sideways. He's not shy about throwing safe doors at old ladies or dropping them off buildings. He's quite happy about speeding up and ripping out the brakes of a train with children and babies on it since threatening the lives of them is the kind of thing you find scary.

If dialing the cheese up to 11 made for an awesome villain we'd all be praising Arnie's Mr Freeze for being so ruthless trying to murder all of Gotham by freezing them to death. Chills my bones!!!

If this kind of cheese floats your boat then more power to you. Not saying anyone is wrong to enjoy it. But its not what makes an effective villain for me. These are villains. Its all good to have some humorous moments with a villain. Even Ledger's Joker had his share of them. But overall I prefer villains with more of an edge and less on the cheese. I don't mean Chris Nolan levels edge since most people always assume that's what people want when they say they prefer less goofiness. Brolin's Thanos, McKellan's Magneto etc are all examples of great villains who were not hamming it up constantly.

 

[Arachnerd]

 

[JubJub86]

What are you even talking about? McKellan's Magneto's dropping hokey one-liners left right and center (not a criticism, he's awesome), and Hiddleston's pretty much split down the middle between Shakespearian family-issue shiz and chewing scenery like a MFer. Go watch Loki in Avengers, he's pretty much as hammy as Goblin ever was.

Again, that's not a bad thing by any means. But he so is.

 

[The Joker]

What are you even talking about? McKellan's Magneto's dropping hokey one-liners left right and center (not a criticism, he's awesome), and Hiddleston's pretty much split down the middle between Shakespearian family-issue shiz and chewing scenery like a MFer. Go watch Loki in Avengers, he's pretty much as hammy as Goblin ever was.

Again, that's not a bad thing by any means. But he so is.

Seriously though we are clearly galaxies apart on the definition of hammy and cheese. The only hokey one liner I can think of McKellan dropping was in X-3 and that stupid line about Charles building bridges right as he is lifting up the Golden Gate bridge. That was cringe.

Anyway I can only repeat the same things so many times before a discussion gets stale and repetitive. Peace out.

 

[Captain Tired]

That remarkable metal doesn't run through your entire body, does it?

A huge bolt of lightning through a copper conductor.

Half of Magneto's lines serve as 'As you know' dialogue for the benefit of the audience. It's quite cheesy.

 

[Dweet]

That remarkable metal doesn't run through your entire body, does it?

A huge bolt of lightning through a copper conductor.

Half of Magneto's lines serve as 'As you know' dialogue for the benefit of the audience. It's quite cheesy.

First line is him tormenting Wolvie. Second line is him making fun of how stupid Cyclops was for saying that.

Mags dialogue is savvy not corny.

 

[Captain Tired]

First line is him tormenting Wolvie. Second line is him making fun of how stupid Cyclops was for saying that.

Mags dialogue is savvy not corny.

Yes, thanks for supplying the context that was clearly lost on me through actually watching the movie.

My point is that the lines are clunkily worded and inserted for the benefit of an audience whom the screenwriter clearly doesn't think will be able to figure things out for themselves. That's why it's cheesy.

 

[Dweet]

It was lost on you bro if you thought it was supposed to be corny. You didn't even quote the best part of the metal conductor line. "I thought you lived at a school".

That was a beautiful burn to Cyclops. Mags was savvy. Gobby was corny. There's a diff.

 

[Captain Tired]

Whatever man.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

McKellen is a classically trained Shakesperian actor and performed the role with grace and gravitas.

He could read lines out of a phonebook and make it sound like high art. Same with Patrick Stewart.

 

[Toomes' Phone]

I wonder if Norman will make any mention of Harry. Obviously James Franco isn't coming back, but I can see Norman referencing him in passing.

 

[JubJub86]

* "Oh yes! A bolt of lightning into a huge copper conductor. I thought you lived at a school?"

* "Let's just say, God works too slow."


* Mags: "You must be Wolverine. That remarkable metal doesn't run through your entire body, does it?"
Logan: "What do you want with me?"
Mags: "You? My dear boy, who ever said I wanted you?"


*"Toad has a wicked tongue, Senator. Just like you."

*"Young people."


*"When will these people learn how to fly?"

*"We love what you've done with your hair."

*"Ah, Mr. Stryker! Come to see that American tax dollars are keeping me comfortable?"


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All the Mr Lorio stuff, too.

McKellen-Magneto's pretty much borderline mustache-twirling in plenty of places, especially with his wink-wink type delivery. Fassbender's take isn't, but there's a world of classic hokey one-liner spewing 60s type villain in McKellen's. It just might not feel that way because the other side of that coin is all the serious weighty political stuff.

Gobby doesn't have that. And he's more maniacal. But he's supposed to be. The cheese-factor's about equal.

 

[The Infernal]

I wonder how accurate that poster is. From the leaks we know the suit is far more banged up and has the addition of a belt/chest strap and purpale cloth around his shoulders.

 

[Chris B]

I'm just relieved that he'll still have the mask. Yeah, its hokey but still preferable to just goggles.

 

[Toomes' Phone]

I wonder how accurate that poster is. From the leaks we know the suit is far more banged up and has the addition of a belt/chest strap and purpale cloth around his shoulders.

There's always the possibility he gets the old suit back for the final fight.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]