Dragonball HQ

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, no one is ever going to surpass Goku on a permanent basis. They may be temporary points where it happens, but anyone who wants or expects that will be disappointed.

 

[Lucien]

Can someone please tell me where I can watch this online?

I've been waiting for them to appear on youtube. Its not always fantastic quality though.

 

[Orb]

Goku vs Superman Round 2

[YT]L0D0VGomWb4[/YT]

Anyways episode 3 of DBS was alright. Mostly exposition/set up episode but at least we got to learn that Beerus was the one to put the Elder Kai into the Z Sword lol.

 

[KevanG]

I'm just finishing watching Goku vs Superman round 2. Not a bad ending and I like how they explain everything.

 

[Lucien]

Episode 3 was quite strange for me. It just retold parts of Battle of the Gods with barely anything new, and because of that it felt like filler. Which is the opposite to how it should be because this is the first episode comprised mainly of the central plot. The Z sword tidbit was nice, but a wasted opportunity in not actually showing a flashback of it happening. I did like that they addressed Goku never having wished Kaiosama back to life with the Dragonballs.

 

[Tron Bonne]

We've known for a little while that the first arc of Super would retell Battle of the Gods and Resurrection of F

 

[Lucien]

I know, and this episode highlighted how redundant that is. I was hoping it would be fleshed out more, like people here had previously suggested they might, but it seemed like they were just replaying the movie with the odd new line thrown in.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I get what you mean, but the alternative is to do a time skip and say "see movies" or something, which would be jarring and weird for those who didn't see them. They are in a bit of a weird spot with it by making the movies and characters within canon.

 

[Lucien]

A recap at the start of episode 1 would've done it. It also doesn't help that Resurrection of F has already been released in Japan. Super could easily have continued where RoF ended, but outside of Japan as we are, watching Super illegitimately before RoF, then no that wouldn't work.

Also marketing and releasing Battle of the Gods and Resurrection of F as in canon is practically negated when they're then retold within the series. The movies are being relegated to feature length trailers for the anime. It really doesn't make sense to me.

Oh well. I never would've thought I'd be wishing for more filler to be added into DBZ :/

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well, I may be wrong, but if I were to guess, I would say that Super wasn't actually planned before the new movies started getting released. I'm sure there was an idea in place, a sort of 'if these movies are successful, there will definitely be a series', but had the movies not done the business they did, they're probably wouldn't be a Super. I think it makes sense when you think of it that way, and them wanting to have all the new canon and characters in one place as opposed to having arrows pointing to here and there to figure out who is what, how this happened, and why this is like that.

 

[Orb]

Keep in mind that dvds/blu rays are expensive as hell in japan and the sales aren't high as you may think and in a decline so theaters are usually the most official people see the movies besides channels showing them or pirating so that's another factor. also movies are being told for the sake of a cohesive narrative. Also judging from Resurrection F, that movie could use the time from TV episodes to flesh out the story.

 

[Lucien]

Well, I may be wrong, but if I were to guess, I would say that Super wasn't actually planned before the new movies started getting released. I'm sure there was an idea in place, a sort of 'if these movies are successful, there will definitely be a series', but had the movies not done the business they did, they're probably wouldn't be a Super. I think it makes sense when you think of it that way, and them wanting to have all the new canon and characters in one place as opposed to having arrows pointing to here and there to figure out who is what, how this happened, and why this is like that.

Oh I completely understand that and I'm actually quite appreciative towards it. But as a fan I feel like I'm being pulled in 2 different directions almost. And by incorporating the movie plots into the anime it completely puts me off investing into buying them now and I'd rather wait however long it may be for Super's release.

Keep in mind that dvds/blu rays are expensive as hell in japan and the sales aren't high as you may think and in a decline so theaters are usually the most official people see the movies besides channels showing them or pirating so that's another factor. also movies are being told for the sake of a cohesive narrative. Also judging from Resurrection F, that movie could use the time from TV episodes to flesh out the story.

Again, I really hope this happens, but so far it's proving otherwise. It is early days though so I'm not dismissing it competely yet.

Ive not seen of any episode counts for these initial recap sagas, but if they're short interim sagas like the Trunks saga in between Freeza and the Androids then it could still work without the padding.

 

[scatterax]

Idk Guys, last time we got a saga based on a movie it was the garlic junior saga....

 

[Tron Bonne]

Little different, that was a direct sequel to a film and filler.

 

[scatterax]

I wasn't too impressed by battle of the gods and yet another ultimate saying transformation, and nothing from resurrection of F looks cannon worthy. There are way too many Dayan transformations, even when not counting GT and Broly. And every new transformation makes the last obsolete. Waiting for a rainbow haired shining ultra super Saiyan God ultimate super Saiyan ape lover super Saiyan to cap off the list.

 

[KevanG]

We need a SS4 Super sayian super sayian God oozaru form.

 

[Lobo]

I want a Super Earthling dammit Let Tien ascend lol

 

[scatterax]

I want a Super Earthling dammit Let Tien ascend lol

I always wondered why king Kai didn't teach anyone else the techniques he taught goku. They all just got a power boost that only piccolo used.

 

[scatterax]

Goku vs Superman Round 2

[YT]L0D0VGomWb4[/YT]

Anyways episode 3 of DBS was alright. Mostly exposition/set up episode but at least we got to learn that Beerus was the one to put the Elder Kai into the Z Sword lol.

I wish they applied the same rules to both characters. If neither are in character and are basically "win at all costs" fighting, like they portrayed superman (but not goku in either match) then goku can win a number of ways. He can weeken superman with kryptonite, or if superman tries to charge in the sun goku could destroy the sun with superman in it, and then teleport to grand Kai's world before the aftermath reaches and destroys earth. (The first time screw attack did this match up they had superman win by destroying earth and surviving in space.) also if instant transmission can transcend the living world and the other world phantom zone shouldn't be a hassle for goku.

Now if you have both characters fight in character, true goku wouldn't use kryptonite or red sun or dragon balls or magic to defeat superman, but superman sure as hell won't be lobotomizing goku, or destroying the earth to win, or even retreating to the sun mid battle. (Is there a reason superman leaving the planet mid fight isn't considered forfit? He is literally flying away from the fight at that point.) in fact if both people are acting in character they don't really fight for real at all. Only if goku wants to spar, or they are both in a tournament would I see them fighting in a crossover, but superman is the kind of guy that would find either irresponsible use of his power imo. But say there is a reason they both decide to fight. The reason superman is shown to take blows from guys like lex Luther and batman is because he holds back, sometimes to much for his own good. While goku is shown to hold back his full power while studying his opponents early on in his fights he is shown to be much more aware of his and his opponents powers. Superman has proven sloppy in that regard. If superman utilized super speed the way flash does I would give him the match, but he mostly just uses super speed as means for transportation, and is only ever seen using it in short spurts in combat. Goku is shown using super speed continuously in combat and has displayed better reaction time. While he can't do tricks quite as crazy as we've seen flash, moves like after image prove goku has better awareness and utilization of his speed. But regardless of who moves faster goku can teleport, which renders that pissing contest obsolete.

So I think in most cases goku takes an in character battle as well.

 

[scatterax]

I just think using a blood thirsty OP version of superman, only to use a version of goku that've only as powerful as the cannon and fights at the most naive we ever seen, but not acknowledging how calculating he can be is pretty double standard. You can't have it both ways.

Also the argument of limited power vs unlimited power should almost be reversed. When one already op's character is always getting new power ups to match any opponent (Deus Ex Machina is one of DBZ's worst sins in later sagas) while the other is assumed to be the same power, the character that defies all limits should, by definition, be considered to be the limitless one. I think screw attack drank too much of their own cool-aid with this one. They have no context for any of their points.

 

[Lucien]

I wasn't too impressed by battle of the gods and yet another ultimate saying transformation, and nothing from resurrection of F looks cannon worthy. There are way too many Dayan transformations, even when not counting GT and Broly. And every new transformation makes the last obsolete. Waiting for a rainbow haired shining ultra super Saiyan God ultimate super Saiyan ape lover super Saiyan to cap off the list.

This actually isn't true. Every other transformation is just a powered up version of the original Super Saiyan, and they all burn energy while using them. If Goku trained SSJ1 to its full potential then it would actually be better than using SSJ2 or 3. Goku has come to realise this since Battle of the Gods so apparently we might be seeing less of these transformations.

 

[scatterax]

This actually isn't true. Every other transformation is just a powered up version of the original Super Saiyan, and they all burn energy while using them. If Goku trained SSJ1 to its full potential then it would actually be better than using SSJ2 or 3. Goku has come to realise this since Battle of the Gods so apparently we might be seeing less of these transformations.

The whole set up to SSJ2 was that it was supposed to be super Saiyan to its full potential without any trade offs. They had a few failed attempts where trunks had the strength but not the speed and vegeta had some of the extra spend and strength but not all of it. The had the little parts where goku and gohan treated super as base for to learn how to use it without any extra energy, so that when gohan erupts into full power it's been set up enough that you know how much effort went into that form and how it was the true version of a super Saiyan, thus the pure version (even though it was visually more busy, what with the gold fire aura and the electricity) then super Saiyan 3 came out of nowhere as an after thought with no set up and purpose, didn't do goku much good in his first fight we see with it, and it had a huge power drain and a time limit. Not to mention the already crazy hair went way too over the edge. Every transformation since than has gotten more crazy and unnecessary, save for fusion, which was actually a unique take on a power up.

I think all of these new transformations could have been avoided if instead of just slapping a two on it, they called it true super sayan, or even legendary super Saiyan. Giving it more of a sense of a pay off to what was sort of the raw untested version from the freeze saga, instead this idea that you could just stack the same type of transformation over and over in a sort of "repeat steps as necessary" fashion, thus inspiring a franchise of what was supposed to be just an extension of the form. These transformations feel, well, like transformers sequels now.

 

[Lucien]

"Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more." -from a q&a with Akira Toriyama last year.

SSJ2 was the perfected Ultra SSJ state, but even then it is still a heightened level of SSJ1. SSJ2 uses energy to maintain just like SSJ3, just not to extent that 3 does. Continuing to perfect SSJ1 is going to allow Goku to surpass 2 and 3.

This has been hinted at before though. When Goku and Gohan trained to remain permenantly in the SSJ state in the ROSAT it eliminated using unescessary energy transforming and got their bodies aclimatised to the power level. Elder Kaioshin's potential unlock on Gohan also meant that transforming into the SSJ form wasn't required. And when Goku and Vegeta were preparing to use the Portara earings, they were warned specifically to do it in their base forms otherwise they'd be stuck in the SSJ state and burn themselves out. Anything above SSJ1, although gives them a much higher power level initially, ultimately puts more of a drain on their bodies in the long run.

Look also to how Super Saiyan God was Goku in his base form when everyone expected him to get a new transformation.

 

[SymbioticToxin]

I never minded the idea of going beyond SS2, that just seemed to make sense. What bothers me is the look. SS3 was just long hair and the caveman brow thing goin' on. SS4? Pink hairy chest and red eyeliner. Granted, nobody should count SS4 since that's GT and we don't talk about that show. (It ain't canon!)

 

[Lobo]

I always wondered why king Kai didn't teach anyone else the techniques he taught goku. They all just got a power boost that only piccolo used.

So I'm not alone.