DTL Season 5-Week 3 (Set 2)

The Deadly Dozen
Team Alpha Squadron - Because A) Aquaman had the home court advantage and they work very well as a team and B)I'm still not convinced that Strange with Gaian Aura wouldn't be pushing the uber bar somewhat considering his own (already stronger than most mages) magic couldn't disable Fate's shields yet with the Soul Sword he cut through so easily.
 
I can see a big old teleporting mess then.
.

Not really. You have Fate teleporting Starhawk to Quasar while Dr. Strange is also teleporting to Quasar. Unless you are trying to suggest Fate can disrupt Strange's teleportation?


Usually, power will trump skill for the first part of the battle. Fate will be tapping into larger reservoirs of power to overpower Strange, who usually holds back in the beginning.

Fate and Strange are on par(Strange actually might be a bit ahead) at the start since Strange doesn't have to summon power. Add that with Strange's exp. advantage and it does not bode well for Fate.

SoV would have to find a way into the air. Inertia would still have to get a lock on Quasar. It's still more logical for them to go after my regs/meds.

SoV has a spacebike that can fly. He can create it (and recreate if destroyed) on the spot. Inertia has tagged Power princess who actually has combat superspeed something Quasar actually lacks. I think it would be more logical to engage the beings attacking their teammates.
 
Dr. Strange can see!

Dr. Strange has actually used the amulet and eye to search for stuff and see through illusions as far back as Spider-Man annual 2 where he tracked down Xandu with the much weaker amulet of Agamotto.

Even then I have Starhawks CA to help.

Dr. Fate vs. Strange

I think we both agree that Dr. Strange's experience would give him the edge over Hector usually. With the Soulsword he would have quite an edge imo. This is Dr. Strange's fight to lose. Dr. Strange actually has protection against Aquaman. He can control the elements. While AM might be able to deal with magical fire this version of Dr. Strange can call on non-magical fire. On top of that we also saw Strange flash freeze a group of mercenaries.


Aquaman, Beast and Mr. Terrific vs. Magik and Inertia

I agree that this would be a poor match-up for my team but I also think it is highly unlikely. It kind of leaves the Spirit of Vengeance off doing.....Something. It also involves you getting the jump on them. While Amanda is no match for Aquaman tp wise I am not sure she would fall to a simple psi blast. Most mages in the MU have tp and some protection. We have seen Amanda communicate with tp before so it wouldn't be unheard of that she would have at least a mild amount of protection. At least enough to keep her from getting one shotted with a psi blast.

Starhawk vs. Quasar

Starhawk was/is rather cold and ruthless. I don't believe he would have any problem fighting his father. . Starhawk is an elite energy manipulator in the leagues of SS. He can create constructs himself and can actually fly faster then Quasar. We saw Quasar absorb energy from SS in their fight but we also saw SS rock Quasar with energy blasts. While Quasar can create armor and shields his body remains the same. He even mentioned this when he engaged SS. We have also seen Gladiator and SS tear right through Quasars constructs. Starhawk has increased his durability and strength to a point where he could slug it out with Thor. On top of that Quasar would be much more likely to hold back in order to protect atlantis then Starhawk would. It would be a hard fight but I personally think he would defeat Quasar.

End

I think in the end my ubers hold a distinct advantage over yours. Dr. Strange who at ths point wields the Soulsword would have quite an advantage over Fate and would also have a good advantage over Quasar due to his problem with magic. Starhawk could match either Fate or Quasar with having a speed, strength, durability, and (judging by his fight with Korvac) a slight advantage in overall power..

I also think it is odd that you have SoV doing nothing while three members of your team defeat my two regs. Then you have Aquaman helping in the defeat of my two regs, aiding Fate, and defeating the SoV all within a short amount of time which doesn't really seem feasible.

And last I think you are to easily dismissing Starhawks power and his cosmic awareness which is something even Korvac was worried about.
 
Dr. Strange can see!

Dr. Strange has actually used the amulet and eye to search for stuff and see through illusions as far back as Spider-Man annual 2 where he tracked down Xandu with the much weaker amulet of Agamotto.
As far as I know, that only applies when actually being near that person. Besides, Dr. Fate has his own amulet, the amulet of Anubis, which has a similar function. I really don't think Strange is going to find them that easily.

Dr. Fate vs. Strange

I think we both agree that Dr. Strange's experience would give him the edge over Hector usually. With the Soulsword he would have quite an edge imo. This is Dr. Strange's fight to lose. Dr. Strange actually has protection against Aquaman. He can control the elements. While AM might be able to deal with magical fire this version of Dr. Strange can call on non-magical fire. On top of that we also saw Strange flash freeze a group of mercenaries.
Aquaman can also quite easily deal with real fire. His magic hand will replenish him where necessary and isn't actually susceptible to normal fire. It is, after all, magic. With Aquaman's aid, Fate has the edge.

Aquaman, Beast and Mr. Terrific vs. Magik and Inertia

I agree that this would be a poor match-up for my team but I also think it is highly unlikely. It kind of leaves the Spirit of Vengeance off doing.....Something. It also involves you getting the jump on them. While Amanda is no match for Aquaman tp wise I am not sure she would fall to a simple psi blast. Most mages in the MU have tp and some protection. We have seen Amanda communicate with tp before so it wouldn't be unheard of that she would have at least a mild amount of protection. At least enough to keep her from getting one shotted with a psi blast.
No, I have my team ambushing yours, which is logical, since my team has a strategic and tactical edge. The SoV, if he's even in anyway similar to Ghost Rider, is going to be off on his own, trying to locate my team. Of course, he can't since A) my team knows the location a lot better and B) Fate's cloaking. As for magic protection against telepathy: That's actually the kind of stuff we need proof for now. Using telepathy isn't the same as being resistant to it. Besides that, Aquaman took out a White Martian with one shot. Aquaman's psi blasts don't affect your mind as much as he affects your brain, manipulating its aquatic parts. He can one-shot Magik.

Starhawk vs. Quasar

Starhawk was/is rather cold and ruthless. I don't believe he would have any problem fighting his father. . Starhawk is an elite energy manipulator in the leagues of SS. He can create constructs himself and can actually fly faster then Quasar. We saw Quasar absorb energy from SS in their fight but we also saw SS rock Quasar with energy blasts. While Quasar can create armor and shields his body remains the same. He even mentioned this when he engaged SS. We have also seen Gladiator and SS tear right through Quasars constructs. Starhawk has increased his durability and strength to a point where he could slug it out with Thor. On top of that Quasar would be much more likely to hold back in order to protect atlantis then Starhawk would. It would be a hard fight but I personally think he would defeat Quasar.
Quasar had to lose in his fight against the Surfer. Otherwise, he could've taken him. He also has no reason to protect Poseidonis as its empty and Aquaman would tell the team it's going to be destroyed eventually by the Spectre anyway. And I'll admit I'm not that familiar with Starhawk's character, but from what I've read, he's quite troubled, and coming up against your father isn't going to help that. Lastly, Galactus has ripped through Quasar's constructs, but Quasar has also been able to 'stalemate' Galactus for a short period of time. I think he'd have at least the psychological edge over Starhawk.

End

I think in the end my ubers hold a distinct advantage over yours. Dr. Strange who at ths point wields the Soulsword would have quite an advantage over Fate and would also have a good advantage over Quasar due to his problem with magic. Starhawk could match either Fate or Quasar with having a speed, strength, durability, and (judging by his fight with Korvac) a slight advantage in overall power..
On which I'll have to agree to disagree. Since I believe my team has a superior strategic and tactical advantage (which I feel I've convincingly portrayed), a little power difference won't matter, especially if my team works together as well as they should.

I also think it is odd that you have SoV doing nothing while three members of your team defeat my two regs. Then you have Aquaman helping in the defeat of my two regs, aiding Fate, and defeating the SoV all within a short amount of time which doesn't really seem feasible.
He's doing something. He's trying to find my team. That team is ambushing your regs and taking them out in the space of a minute, maybe two. Which is when SoV finally locates them and joins the battle, where he has to contend with Beast and Mr. Terrific. When he's done against them, he faces Fate, Quasar and Aquaman. That's going to be a short battle.

And last I think you are to easily dismissing Starhawks power and his cosmic awareness which is something even Korvac was worried about.
And I think you're underestimating my team's capabilities in general, especially in this location.
 
As far as I know, that only applies when actually being near that person. Besides, Dr. Fate has his own amulet, the amulet of Anubis, which has a similar function. I really don't think Strange is going to find them that easily

That would be incorrect. He has searched through dimensions with the eye and when he searched and found Xandu he was nowhere near him.

I do have to ask when the amulet did something like that especially when Hector had it.

Aquaman can also quite easily deal with real fire. His magic hand will replenish him where necessary and isn't actually susceptible to normal fire. It is, after all, magic.

Actually this version of Dr. Strange controlled the elements. When he used fire it was actual fire not magical fire. So it isn't actually magic.

No, I have my team ambushing yours, which is logical,

No it isn't. You are ambushing my teleporter. Which ambushing any teleporter is very hard to do cause you have no idea where they are. What makes it even harder is that neither Aquaman, Terrific, or Beast can teleport.

As for magic protection against telepathy:

She has shown the ability to use telepathy. She helped keep the others mindlinked even.

Quasar had to lose in his fight against the Surfer. Otherwise, he could've taken him.

Haha. There was nothing in there that suggested he was going to defeat SS. In fact Quasar even mentions his body was feeling SS's blasts through even his armor. Quasar also mentions how SS's power seems limitless. When they later met during Starmasters he was amazed at SS's power and SS ripped right through his constructs. Quasar even said that SS could of done that at anytime. He also showed he wasn't fast enough to keep up with SS.

Gladiator also plowed right through his constructs.

And I'll admit I'm not that familiar with Starhawk's character, but from what I've read, he's quite troubled,

That was a later version that split from Aleta and no longer had CA. The original which I have never had those problems. The Guardians were even bothered by his lack of emotion and care. He was very cold and calculating.

Lastly, Galactus has ripped through Quasar's constructs, but Quasar has also been able to 'stalemate' Galactus for a short period of time.

For a very short time and he had help. That was also a very bad showing for Galactus. Herald Johnny was giving him a hard time. Helped defeat him even.....

On which I'll have to agree to disagree. Since I believe my team has a superior strategic and tactical advantage (which I feel I've convincingly portrayed), a little power difference won't matter, especially if my team works together as well as they should.

Ah, again easily dismissing the fact that Dr. Strange has both an experience advantage and the Soulsword. As far as team work all you have is Aquaman aiding Fate against Dr. Strange all the while he is supposed to be helping defeat Magik and Inertia.


He's doing something. He's trying to find my team. That team is ambushing your regs and taking them out in the space of a minute, maybe two.

Mistake

Which is where you made your biggest mistake. I don't have my team out and about looking for yours. I have them also cloaked and searching for yours. I don't have them leaving each other until they have located your team. This is also where you are straight up ignoring Starhawks cosmic awareness.

And I think you're underestimating my team's capabilities in general, especially in this location.

I think by the fact you are completely leaving out Starhawks CA, have SoV off doing something while Aquaman, Beast, and Terrific somehow find and ambush my teleporter means you are also underestimating my teams strengths.
 
I do have to ask when the amulet did something like that especially when Hector had it.
It's been described as such countless times, although I can't find a concrete showing of Hector using it right now. Still, we know the amulet stayed the same, just the man behind the helmet changed.

Actually this version of Dr. Strange controlled the elements. When he used fire it was actual fire not magical fire. So it isn't actually magic.
I was talking about the Waterbearer. It can take normal fire just fine, because it's magic.

No it isn't. You are ambushing my teleporter. Which ambushing any teleporter is very hard to do cause you have no idea where they are. What makes it even harder is that neither Aquaman, Terrific, or Beast can teleport.
What's she going to do? It's Aquaman's location, they have a tactical edge, and he can take her down before she teleports. Really, teleporting is overrated in this case. It's not going to help her avoid Aquaman's attack.

She has shown the ability to use telepathy. She helped keep the others mindlinked even.
Doesn't change a thing. He's not directly attacking your mind. He's attacking the parts of the brain that evolved from marine life. Besides that, he's a telepath capable of standing up to Despero.

Haha. There was nothing in there that suggested he was going to defeat SS. In fact Quasar even mentions his body was feeling SS's blasts through even his armor. Quasar also mentions how SS's power seems limitless. When they later met during Starmasters he was amazed at SS's power and SS ripped right through his constructs. Quasar even said that SS could of done that at anytime. He also showed he wasn't fast enough to keep up with SS.
In fact, during that first fight, Quasar wonders quite a bit about whether he could beat the Surfer if he had to. I can't dispute the Starmasters issues, but everything I've read of the two suggest they're in the same ballpark.

For a very short time and he had help. That was also a very bad showing for Galactus. Herald Johnny was giving him a hard time. Helped defeat him even.....
He had no help. The Fantastic Four were busy formulating a plan. And Johnny and the others were able to defeat him not because of Johnny's new capabilities, but because of some clever tactics and machinery.

Ah, again easily dismissing the fact that Dr. Strange has both an experience advantage and the Soulsword. As far as team work all you have is Aquaman aiding Fate against Dr. Strange all the while he is supposed to be helping defeat Magik and Inertia.
Is it somehow impossible for Fate to hold off Strange for a while? That's not an over and done with thing. On his first outing, Hector took down Mordru, the guy that killed Shazam and was able to match Nabu, a Lord of Order. Aquaman can easily help beat the regs and then aid Fate.

Which is where you made your biggest mistake. I don't have my team out and about looking for yours. I have them also cloaked and searching for yours. I don't have them leaving each other until they have located your team. This is also where you are straight up ignoring Starhawks cosmic awareness.
Obviously not in your scenario, but then again, in your scenario my team also magically doesn't have a tactics advantage. Dr. Strange isn't much of a leader, Starhawk is emotionally cold, SoV is a loose cannon. There is no real unity there, whereas my guys know each other very well.

I think by the fact you are completely leaving out Starhawks CA, have SoV off doing something while Aquaman, Beast, and Terrific somehow find and ambush my teleporter means you are also underestimating my teams strengths.
"Somehow"? How hard is to ambush someone in a city like Poseidonis? Just because Magik can teleport doesn't mean she can't be taken unaware. Nightcrawler gets punked as well, and he's a lot better porter than Magik is. You're really overrating her abilities in this. And again, the Spirit of Vengeance, not really inclined to stick with your team, is going to go off and search for my team. He finds them soon enough, but in that time, your regs go down.
 
What's she going to do? It's Aquaman's location, they have a tactical edge, and he can take her down before she teleports. Really, teleporting is overrated in this case. It's not going to help her avoid Aquaman's attack.

How is Aquaman actually finding a teleporter? Why is she just wandering the streets looking for a fight? You are severely underrating her here.

In fact, during that first fight, Quasar wonders quite a bit about whether he could beat the Surfer if he had to. I can't dispute the Starmasters issues, but everything I've read of the two suggest they're in the same ballpark.

I agree they are in the same ballpark. No denying that. Even with the Starmaster showing. However it does show he doesn't have a huge edge on beings who use energy attacks. He can't absorb every blast as was shown in his fight with SS and he still has human durability under the armor.

He had no help. The Fantastic Four were busy formulating a plan. And Johnny and the others were able to defeat him not because of Johnny's new capabilities, but because of some clever tactics and machinery.

I need to look it up again but I do believe Johnny aided with Galactus at one point. However that is regarded as one of Quasars all time highs. Certainly not his average.

On his first outing, Hector took down Mordru, the guy that killed Shazam and was able to match Nabu, a Lord of Order. Aquaman can easily help beat the regs and then aid Fate.

Mordru actually defeated Hector in their first fight. It wasn't until Mordru made the mistake of putting on the Helmet, amulet, and cloak of Fates when he was defeated. It trapped him.


Obviously not in your scenario, but then again, in your scenario my team also magically doesn't have a tactics advantage.

What are your tactics? You placed traps as if my team would just walk around and fall into them.

Dr. Strange isn't much of a leader,

Wow....That is really reaching there.

Starhawk is emotionally cold

How does that hinder him at all?

SoV is a loose cannon.

Not really. He was a member of the Galactis Guardians and even fought besides someone he hated.

There is no real unity there, whereas my guys know each other very well.

Actually thanks to DTL rules Magik, Strange, and Inertia have all worked together. Starhawk has worked with Strange and SoV has worked with Starhawk and the GOTG before.

"Somehow"? How hard is to ambush someone in a city like Poseidonis? Just because Magik can teleport doesn't mean she can't be taken unaware. Nightcrawler gets punked as well, and he's a lot better porter than Magik is. You're really overrating her abilities in this. And again, the Spirit of Vengeance, not really inclined to stick with your team, is going to go off and search for my team. He finds them soon enough, but in that time, your regs go down.

You are underrating her severely. You have my team out and just searching for yours. How is Aquaman finding her so quickly? Why is she just out searching for them despite the fact Strange and Starhawk can do that a lot more effectively. Without the risk to boot.

SoV worked with a team. He isn't going to just run off and start looking for a fight. Especially not when his leader told him to stay.

The amount you are underrating my team is almost funny and still you ignore Starhawks CA. You made the same mistake Nightwing did and had my team just wandering around looking for a fight.
 
Team Alpha Wolf Squadron - I buy Harlekin's side of the debate more.
Deadly Dozen
 
I'm leaving most of this up to the voter.

How is Aquaman actually finding a teleporter? Why is she just wandering the streets looking for a fight? You are severely underrating her here.
What is she going to do, teleport around randomnly? Finding a teleporter isn't hard.

Mordru actually defeated Hector in their first fight. It wasn't until Mordru made the mistake of putting on the Helmet, amulet, and cloak of Fates when he was defeated. It trapped him.
He's beaten Mordru after that, and has also taken on and defeated the Curse, someone that not even Nabu could defeat.

What are your tactics? You placed traps as if my team would just walk around and fall into them.
Where did I say this? I just said they laid traps as a notion that could later be used. I didn't exactly use it this scenario. And the tactics are quite simple, take away the ubers and med from the regs, ambush the regs, and then aid against the ubers. Not terribly original or complicated, but it works.

Wow....That is really reaching there.
How so? Dr. Strange is not known for his leadership. He is able to bring people together somewhat, often through manipulating them. He's never shown any actual leadership skill, definitely not on par with someone like Mr. Terrific.

Actually thanks to DTL rules Magik, Strange, and Inertia have all worked together. Starhawk has worked with Strange and SoV has worked with Starhawk and the GOTG before.
And from what I recall from my write-ups, Magik and Inertia always go off on theirselves, even if guided. Your team doesn't exactly consist of teamplayers, at least not my team is.

The amount you are underrating my team is almost funny and still you ignore Starhawks CA. You made the same mistake Nightwing did and had my team just wandering around looking for a fight.
I've already said that I didn't properly account for his cosmic awareness. My mistake. It's up to the voter whether that matters in the end.

And with that, I'm really fine with just letting the voter decide. We're debating right through that, in fact, which we usually try to avoid. Besides that, I feel we're just going around in circles and I've said all I've wanted to say.
 
A: You are trying to say it is logical for my team to split up in a place they are unfamiliar with before my guy who has CA and Strange who is using the eye can find your team. And yet my team is just going to split up. That doesn't make sense.

B: You have Dr. Fate teleporting directly into my group and then having my regs and mid just taking off. That doesn't make sense.

C: You give no mention of how you are going to keep Dr. Strange from reaching and defeating Quasar. On top of that you have Starhawk who is much faster then either Quasar or Dr. Fate getting boxed in fighting Quasar despte the fact he could easily outfly Quasar and his constructs and attack Fate while Strange attacks Quasar.

D: You have Aquaman, Terrific, and Beast finding Inertia and Magik rather quickly(despite a cloaking spell and illusion) and defeating them while their teammates(SoV) are....somewhere.

He's beaten Mordru after that, and has also taken on and defeated the Curse, someone that not even Nabu could defeat.

He defeated Mordru after Mordru plowed through his teammates(including defeating a 5-d imp) and was hurt by Arion being released.

He exploited a weakness with Curse. He was completely overpowered before that.

We're debating right through that, in fact, which we usually try to avoid.

Eh, X seemed to encourage it. Sorry if I was mistaken.
 
I know we used to try and end the debates before voting, so that people don't 'regret' their vote. It also makes it easier to count them. Either way, good match-up Who? May be the best write-up win.
 
Hmm, really close match you guys. I enjoyed both the writeup and debate, and thought you both had some good points.

Here's how I see it:
- Dr. Strange and Hector Hall are pretty evenly matched, I do give Strange a slight edge due to experience
- Aquaman's hand and Magik's soul sword give each mage a similar advantage -- leaving things basically even. (And no, I don't think giving Strange one more minor magical artifact makes him too uber, even though that artifact happens to be particularly useful in this fight.)
- The difference is that Magik can give Strange the sword (as Who? did), whereas Aquaman can only help Fate so long as he's not occupied by another fight
- I initially agreed with Harl's argument that Aquaman's superior knowledge of the battleground would allow his team to dictate the matchups. But Who's right that his team could mostly counter this by all sticking together, and this strikes me as a sensible thing to do given that they're in unfamiliar territory
- Specifically, I think Harl is wrong that Spirit of Vengeance would go off on his own, since unlike Ghost Rider, SoV is a member of a team (the Guardians of the Galaxy). Who? pointed this out in his rebuttal.
- If SoV sticks with the team, he can demand enough of Aquaman's attention to pull him out of the fight with Strange. Then Strange (with Soul Sword) has the advantage on Fate.
- If Strange beats Fate, he's beating Quasar (magic weakness), and after that it's all over.

So I give it to Who? in a close one.
 
XFanTim - Some great tactics tim. Especially using Magik from the Limbo dimension.

Harlekin
 
Harlekin You seemed to know next to nothing about the SOV, Inertia, and Starhawk, as you admitted more or less, which resulted in all three of them being underwritten.

In regards to Starhawk and comparing Quasar to the Silver Surfer... Starhawk already more than held his own against the Keeper, none the less just the Surfer.

The SOV you potrayed was... underwhelming. We're talking about one of the very best middleweights in the entire league.

Your write-up this week was also short and pretty sparse on details.

You have a few adavantages, such as the homefield one, but eh. Checks and balances.

My vote goes to Who.

Who, you continue to impress. You've got a massive mobility advantage on Harlekin's team (Starhawk is quite capable of FTL blitzing, SOV is extremely mobile and you've got more than one teleporter) and your team is simply well varied and very, very powerful.

There's no way I can take Harlekin's Fate over Gaia Strange.
 
My other vote goes to Tim.

I'm a bit aggravated that Tim did so much this week and got nothing but a garbage in return. Congrats on not following suite, Tim.

And your team continues to frighten me. ;)
 
Harlekin presented an otherwise very solid write-up, but among a few other minor points, had an Uber occupying SoV. Along with Quasar's vulnerability to magic, that's enough to make me go with Who?, who used some good strategy himself.

Tim, of-course.
 
Yeah, people seem to forget that even friggin' Modred's beaten Quasar.

He can't do anything against magic.
 
Quasar's also beaten Mordred through some clever use of his power.
 
The Deadly Dozen
Who?


If Who?'s got an edge in the writeups, it's a small one (IMO). Both of you did a heck of a job writing up and debating. Tough call.
 
Quasar's also beaten Mordred through some clever use of his power.

He redirected Phoenix's power at Modred. That didn't defeat him either. It just gave Nightcrawler and Widget the chance to teleport beside Modred and bfr him.
 
Quasar's also beaten Mordred through some clever use of his power.

Yeah, if you consider another character entirely briefing affecting Modred a win for Quasar, sure.
 
Voting is now over.
Final results


Kaboom's Big Boomin' Brawlers 0
The Deadly Dozen 9

Team Alpha Wolf Squadron 4
Who? 5
 
Close...

Nicely done Who?

How can the Deadly Dozen only have 8 votes though, if we have 9?
 

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