DTL Season 5-Week 5 (Set 1)

I guess I might as well vote:

Who? gets my vote, partly because AS never showed but also because I think even in as brief a post as it was Who? makes some good points about his team having the advantage. Especially with regard to the lower-level battles.

Of course AS being AS he'd probably have had Mountjoy absorb the regs to create an army of speedsters. Honestly I think Doom 2099 could beat them all anyway,
 
I vote Wiegs and Who?.

Tim, I'm starting to notice that, at least in my opinion, you overstate the case for your regs quite a bit. Yes, you've hit the point that Zoom moves so fast Superman looks frozen--but all Zoom was doing was running around the world. Not much critical thinking, strategy, or thought involved in that. No decisionmaking. When he's in an actual fight with somebody, he just isn't going to move like that. Not in the comics, and not in the DTL. If he was moving like that, with the ramifications you indicate, he would never be defeated and would simply annihilate the Earth's population. And you know what that would make him: too uber.
"The case for my regs"? You know Zoom's an uber, right? Personally, I think you just really underestimate Zoom, just as you did last week. With his altered timeline, his thinking is accelerated as much as anything else about him. Anyway, how much strategy did I have him use? I just had him run as fast as he could and pound on Green Lantern as fast as he could. I still don't get why you think he's an idiot just because his power is to run -- personally I thought maybe I wrote him as too stupid.

Anyway, just being fast doesn't make anyone too uber. And he doesn't annihilate the Earth's population because that's not his goal. He's motivated more by a personal vendetta against Flash (although in a twisted way he claims he's helping Flash). Obviously Zoom or any other evil Flash-level speedster could kill millions faster than anyone could stop them if that's what they really wanted to do -- at least as long as the place where they were killing those millions wasn't protected by someone like Flash. But doing that would hold know appeal to Zoom.
 
Just read Tim's writeup. I'll get some comments up during lunchtime. I will say no I liked the fact that some of our matchups/strategies lined up. I love it when that happens. Usually means the matches are going to be really close.
 
Yeah, we had a very similar vision of the fight, which is cool. Too bad you had to mess yours up by having the wrong team win. :p ;)
 
Rebuttle:

All Exodus has to do is pretty much what Kyle did: Send a tk sphere in all directions to slam into Hadrian. Doing that would give Exodus the moment he needs to regain his senses (if the constant teleportation of someone who can already teleport does confuse him). If the sphere hits Proctor, Exodus won't really care. And once Exodus gets his tk on Hadrian, he'll have no qualms about ripping him apart. And if Hadrian can avoid the sphere by teleporting away, it gives exodus a breather and he can teleport away as well.


Ghost won't be able to use any technology in the base once Kyle sets off an EMP. Zoom wouldn't be able to get to Kyle before the EMP since Exodus will grab his mind when the fight starts. And if Hadrian tries to bring Kyle to him, the EMP will still go off, and Hadrian will take it at point blank. Even if that didn't fry his systems, Kyle has the chance to press the advantage.


It would make more sense for Deadline (with Wanda in tow) to go after Malice. He could detect her with his enhanced senses, and phase through her forcefields. Or, at the very least, phase up from the floor beneath her inside her forcefield and take her out quickly. And sticking together helps them hold up against Ghost and Chase. And if Exodus (and Proctor) are still going, Ghost and Chase are going to be in bad shape.

I actually don't have much problem with how Kyle was handled. In that situation, I could see it playing out much the same way. Although if Deadline were to go after the Invisible Woman, she might not get the chance to stop Kyle.
 
(1) The Electromagnetic Pulse
I really like this idea, since it attempts to compensate for one of the advantages my team has, namely the fact that we're very well suited to take control of the battlefield tech. The only problem is I don't think Green Lantern would get the chance to launch an opening salvo like that. As I've said, he can react as quick as he can think, but Zoom can react far, far, quicker than Kyle can think -- so he'll already be raining down punches on him within the first nanosecond of the fight. Once he's already locked in combat with a foe like Zoom, I really don't think Kyle will be able to afford to divert his attention to EMPs and such.

Zoom doesn't have the chance to get to Kyle because Exodus stops him when the match starts. And as long as Zoom is stuck, Kyle will have the time to set off the EMP and track down Zoom.

(2) Hadrian doesn't need to scan
One of the great things about Hadrian is he can teleport someone to a destination even without knowing where he's teleporting them from. He's sometimes teleported people to him from distant corners of the globe. So it's not like he'd have to spend any time scanning to find Exodus or anyone else. It may seem like a minor thing, but it reemphasizes my point that my team would be attacking yours before they could react -- since Hadrian (whose android reflexes are superior to Kyle or Exodus) could immediately put them in the path of those attacks. It also means my team can basically dictate who fights whom (at least among the ubers -- I thought having Hadrian port random regs around might constitute an illegal attack), and that we can stick your ubers in whatever is the most inhospitable room for them in the whole prison. (I wish I'd had more time to emphasize that last point in my writeup.)

If Hadrian teleports Exodus, his hold on Zoom remains because teleportation is instantaneous. And Proctor can follow Exodus and take on Hadrian to buy Exodus time. How much time? Kyle can move extremely fast, and phase through walls. He can make a straight line for Zoom at near sonic speeds (which is plenty fast in such a confined area).

If Hadrian teleports Kyle, the EMP goes of anyway, and Hadrian takes a point-blank hit. And Exodus still holds Zoom in place.

(3) Hadrian is much faster than Proctor
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Proctor doesn't even have Quicksilver-level speed. He certainly doesn't have the speed of someone like Hadrian, who's able to give Superman-level types like Majestic a serious headache. We both pitted Hadrian against Exodus and Proctor, which I thought was interesting, but I had the key to the fight being the fact that Hadrian was fast enough with his teleporting to do things like time a teleport so one of his opponents would hit the other. I think that's more accurate than having him and Proctor basically stalemating, which suggests more equal speed.

But the combo of Proctor and Exodus is a tough one to beat. Especially since both can also teleport. We could wind up having an endless teleportation battle until Exodus can hit Hadrian with a wide (or spherical) tk blast.

(4) I think Kyle trapped Zoom too easily.
Zoom will be moving at maximum speed when the battle begins. He's so fast there's no way Kyle should be able to see him, much less catch him in a bubble. Saying his ring detects the time distortion is a nice thought, but the fact is by the time Kyle's brain registers that info Zoom will already be long gone. At full speed he's so fast Superman couldn't so much as react as Zoom and Flash went zipping by.

When Kyle trapped Zoom in the bubble, he was still mentally trapped by Exodus. Once the mental hold falls, Zoom is trapped in the bubble and then confined in a super strong cell designed to hold the toughest of Superman's rogues. Or, if time is limited (even though I described how little time Kyle would need), Exodus could just screw up something in Zoom's brain, if he wasn't able to just shut it down for some reason.

Again, I actually took a similar approach, except in mine Zoom made himself vulnerable by making the strategic error of sticking close enough to Kyle that Kyle knew roughly where he was. He did this to focus on dishing out maximum damage to Kyle -- which is the key difference: in yours Kyle comes through unscathed, in mine he's already sustained a hell of a pounding, softening him up for the rest of my team. (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in assuming he'd still be standing after that.)

Even if Kyle does take a beating, we both agree that Kyle would take out Zoom. And I don't really have Kyle doing much after his Zoom fight, so he could be beaten up or exhausted holding on the Zoloman in the bubble.

(5) Ghost has counters to enhanced hearing
I didn't have Invisible Woman fight Deadline in mine, but I'd think Ghost could provide her with some of the same countermeasures I had him use (e.g., heartbeat decoys). He's used this stuff in the comics to counter the exact same tactics from Iron Man (who'd used those tactics successfully against Ghost in a previous battle).

For anyone with a long memory, I didn't mention this when Khell and I were discussing similar tactics against Ghost in week 1, for no better reason than that I didn't know about it yet. I've read up on him more since then. He's constantly upgrading his tech, so what's worked against him in the past often won't work a second time.

I can't fault that. But if he's invisible, he can't get passed Kyle's forcefield. If he's intangible, he can't hurt Kyle. And if he is invisible, Kyle could just use a wide range blast to stop him, or at least expose him. And Proctor may be able to screw with his mind, even if he's invisible (and maybe intangible).
 
Who?

Obviously just having a writeup is key. But I think you may have underplayed AS's regs somewhat. Especially if MountJoy gets a hold of your characters.
 
So is AnnoyingSilence out of the league or what?
 
Rebuttle of rebuttle
Wiegeabo said:
All Exodus has to do is pretty much what Kyle did: Send a tk sphere in all directions to slam into Hadrian. Doing that would give Exodus the moment he needs to regain his senses (if the constant teleportation of someone who can already teleport does confuse him). If the sphere hits Proctor, Exodus won't really care. And once Exodus gets his tk on Hadrian, he'll have no qualms about ripping him apart. And if Hadrian can avoid the sphere by teleporting away, it gives exodus a breather and he can teleport away as well.
It's one thing if Exodus is deliberately telporting to a known location -- but when he's ported against his will, it's got to take at least a fraction of a second for him to get his bearings and figure out where he is and which way he's facing. Not a long time, just a small fraction of a second. But if Hadrian does this over and over at a fast enough rate, Exodus would never get the chance to get his bearings. And I think Hadrian has enough of a speed advantage on Exodus to pull this off.

The fact that he's used to the physical stresses of teleportation is beside the point. He's not used to finding himself basically spun around the room at random faster than his mind can keep up -- because when he ports himself, he already knows where he's ending up. So self-teleporting doesn't train him for the disorientation of being ported to a random position -- and it's pretty well established that telepathy/telekinesis is the sort of power that requires you to maintain your concentration to use effectively.

As for the forcefield sphere trick, the reason I had it work on Zoom was because once Flash had Zoom inside a large sphere and outside a small sphere, there was no way Zoom could get out from between the two. Whereas if Hadrian sees a TK sphere expanding towards him, he could just port through to the inside of the sphere. Again, the key point is the speed difference -- Exodus can only expand the sphere as fast as he thinks, and Hadrian thinks and reacts faster.

Ghost won't be able to use any technology in the base once Kyle sets off an EMP. Zoom wouldn't be able to get to Kyle before the EMP since Exodus will grab his mind when the fight starts. And if Hadrian tries to bring Kyle to him, the EMP will still go off, and Hadrian will take it at point blank. Even if that didn't fry his systems, Kyle has the chance to press the advantage.
Neither Exodus grabbing Zoom's mind nor Kyle realsing the EMP would happen before Zoom was battering Kyle, because Zoom is so much faster. Even if it takes a hundredth of a second for Kyle to think "EMP", that hundredth of a second is an eternity to Zoom. Hadrian reacts a good bit faster than Kyle as well, but for Zoom it's not even close. And once Zoom's ultrafast blows are pounding him he's not going to be thinking about the EMP at all anymore, he's going to be thinking about fighting off Zoom.

I also question how effective Exodus's telepathy would be against someone who's mind is functioning at such an accelerated rate -- but more to the point, Zoom would be pounding Kyle before Exodus would have time to think the thought to stop him, and for that matter Hadrian would be attacking Exodus as well. (Hadrian's not remotely Zoom speed, but he's still faster than Exodus.)

In short: The faster team should be the one landing their attacks first, and that's my team.

I'm also not quite so sure how Kyle could fry the whole prison's tech without frying Ghost's battlesuit, and that would be illegal -- an uber attacking a reg to start the fight.

It would make more sense for Deadline (with Wanda in tow) to go after Malice. He could detect her with his enhanced senses, and phase through her forcefields. Or, at the very least, phase up from the floor beneath her inside her forcefield and take her out quickly. And sticking together helps them hold up against Ghost and Chase. And if Exodus (and Proctor) are still going, Ghost and Chase are going to be in bad shape.

I actually don't have much problem with how Kyle was handled. In that situation, I could see it playing out much the same way. Although if Deadline were to go after the Invisible Woman, she might not get the chance to stop Kyle.
I think my team is in a better position to dictate the matchups, since Hadrian can port them where they need to be. Deadline has enhanced senses but it's still going to take him a while to find an invisible person who could be anywhere in a large prison, at that gives Malice time to aid in another battle if she chooses.
 
Zoom doesn't have the chance to get to Kyle because Exodus stops him when the match starts. And as long as Zoom is stuck, Kyle will have the time to set off the EMP and track down Zoom.
Reiterating my point above: Zoom is hitting Kyle before Exodus or Kyle can do anything. They're as fast as the speed of thought, he's much faster.

If Hadrian teleports Exodus, his hold on Zoom remains because teleportation is instantaneous. And Proctor can follow Exodus and take on Hadrian to buy Exodus time.
But Zoom's position would be different relative to Exodus. I'd think Exodus would have to reestablish mental control if the target of that control was suddenly in a completely different place relative to him.

But like I said, I'm skeptical as to whether Exodus would ever get the chance to establish control in the first place, and I'm skeptical he could keep focussing on that with Hadrian attacking him. And I'm not sure how much time Proctor could by when Hadrian can teleport Exodus into the path of Proctor's sword, as I had him do. His power is ideal for making two characters get in each other's way.

How much time? Kyle can move extremely fast, and phase through walls. He can make a straight line for Zoom at near sonic speeds (which is plenty fast in such a confined area).
Again, this would only work if Zoom was frozen in place, as I've argued he wouldn't be. Otherwise, speed of sound movement is like a crawl next to Zoom, and easily dodged.


But the combo of Proctor and Exodus is a tough one to beat. Especially since both can also teleport. We could wind up having an endless teleportation battle until Exodus can hit Hadrian with a wide (or spherical) tk blast.
The key advantage, again, is that my guy is faster. Neither of yours have better than reg-level speed, whereas Hadrian has uber speed (as evidenced by his fights with other guys with uber-level speed, like Majestic.) That speed applies to reflexes, not just movement, which is why I have Hadrian teleporting himself out of the path of their attacks, and teleporting his opponents into the paths of those attacks.

Even if Kyle does take a beating, we both agree that Kyle would take out Zoom. And I don't really have Kyle doing much after his Zoom fight, so he could be beaten up or exhausted holding on the Zoloman in the bubble.

I can't fault that. But if he's invisible, he can't get passed Kyle's forcefield. If he's intangible, he can't hurt Kyle. And if he is invisible, Kyle could just use a wide range blast to stop him, or at least expose him. And Proctor may be able to screw with his mind, even if he's invisible (and maybe intangible).
Yeah, I don't have a problem with Kyle eventually beating Zoom, and I don't have a problem with him beating Ghost if he were still around to do it. The key difference I guess is that I have Malice take Kyle out, which you said you didn't really have a problem with but thought Deadline could take her down first. I personally think it'd take Deadline long enough to find Malice that she could attack Kyle first. Plus, my regs could find Deadline and keep him occupied. (He's just intangible, not invisible, right? So not so hard to find.) Plus my team has a teleporter to help position my characters to fight who I want them to fight.
 
Please tell me we're going to hold voting open long enough to get a decent number of votes. I can handle losing, but losing by a whopping score of 2-0 would seriously suck. :(

One idea: Maybe we could close debate at a certain point (so people can start thinking about their next match), but keep voting open until we get at least, I don't know, seven votes?
 
Well the first vote is obvious and that is Who

The second is not so obvious and as such I am going with Weig just because I assume that whatever happens to Zoom happens fast, and I buy that he can be taken out using Exodus' psychic powers. Thereafter, the battle is unbalanced. Plus an EMP wwould I would think take Hadrian out.
 
Captain Marvel (Genis-Vel x2)
Thanos
Mount Joy
MultipleMan
Northstar (Agent of Hydra)

(Owner - Who?)
Starhawk (original) (MU) -- Super strength, super speed, energy blasts, manipulates energy, can create light constructs, and a form of cosmic awareness.
The Weird DU -- Flight, super strength, phasing, and can manipulate any form of energy.
Doom 2099 MU - Superhuman stats(durability, strength, stamina, etc.), technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, and flight.
Ganymede MU -- Enhanced stats, flight belt, and a staff that can release energy.
Magik 2 (MR) -- Teleportation, spellcaster, and wields the Soulsword
 
Well, since only three votes have been cast, I guess you still got a chance, but I wouldn't be on any more votes coming in any time soon either.
 
I guess I might as well vote:

Who? gets my vote, partly because AS never showed but also because I think even in as brief a post as it was Who? makes some good points about his team having the advantage. Especially with regard to the lower-level battles.

Of course AS being AS he'd probably have had Mountjoy absorb the regs to create an army of speedsters. Honestly I think Doom 2099 could beat them all anyway,

as specific as my opponents descriptions are:(no pre-battle)

the basic plan of my team is strength in numbers, which is easily accomplished when Mount Joy absorbs one of Multiple Mans dupes(fully assimulating it). Next Mount Joy Jumps into NorthStar, dupes, spits out Northstar assimulates his dupe and finishs assimulating the northstar thats in him... not only do you have an army of regs, but you also have another army of northstars



seeing as how we're on an island prison and and my team is a flying team, i say my team is staying on the outside of the prison. this gives my army the advantage. using his powers of energy manipulation, captain marvel concentrates on the existing area noticing the different technologies inside, using the electricity in each of them to fry thier wires rending them useless. making it a strictly team vs team which he can see is the way they need to go.. also captain marvel using his mastery over Cosmic Awarness(which he has had Mellinia to perfect) marvel has glanced into the most probable future, assessing his opponents powers and then relaying the info to his mates...
 
I don't have time to do a full write up so I will just do a quick run through. Seeing as how AS hasn't been around for a while I doubt he will mind.

Both our teams has a prep master(Doom and Thanos) and beings with CA(Starhawk and Genis) so as far as prep goes our teams will be very close. However where my team will truly shine is the battle itself.

Regs

I hate to say it but my regs are to much for AS's. Ganymede is more skilled and is just as fast with her flight belt and her enhanced stats. Her staff will take Northstar out with a few well placed hits.

Magik 2 knows what MM is capable of so she won't allow herself to be surprised by his dupes. With her teleportation and magic she will have MM down without to much fuss.

Meds

Doom 2099 will truly shine in this battle with his technopathy he will literally be able to control most the battle field as well as letting his team know the layout of the place.

As far as MJ goes he will have a very hard time even getting close to Doom let alone taking him out. With his sensors, invisibility, the battle field under his control, and phasing MJ will have little chance against him.

Ubers

Genis and Weird will go at it. While Genis has a lot of power at hand it matters little to one who is basically immune to energy and can short out Genis's bands(screwing Genis up big time) just by touching them. After using his speed and phasing Weird manages to nab a band and shorts it out sending Genis into fits. This will make Genis easy pickings.

Thanos and Starhawk will be a fierce battle but Starhawk knows all to well how to fight beings with great power(Korvac and Keeper). After an awesome fight Starhawk will stand as the victor. Having used his CA, flight, constructs, speed, strength, and energy manip to simply overcome the mad titan.
and i get get lashings for under playing characters?
 
and i get get lashings for under playing characters?

Yes you do and for good reasons.

To be quite honest(as Xfantim pointed out) Doom could solo your entire army of Northstars and multiple men. The simple fact is your regs and med are low powered and not very well equiped to deal with my regs and med.

Now as far as CA.

Genis's CA is matched by Starhawks. We both can play the "My character used CA to see what your team does" game.

Thanos is tough(and powerful) as **** but so is Starhawk. Starhawks speed(both combat and non combat) is far greater then Thanos's and the one true speedster we have seen Thanos go up against who actually used their speed gave Thanos hell. Add Starhawks CA and power ( power that let him give Korvac one hell of a fight) and you have a fight that is not going to be in Thanos's favor.

Weird?

Kent Nelson Fate, GL Guy, and Captain Atom were helpless against Weird due to him being immune to energy attacks and his ability to short out a GL ring, the Helm of Nabu, and Captain Atoms body. Energy manipulators/Wielders are not going to have a fun time fighting Weird. Which means Genis no matter how powerful he is will be fighting a very uphill battle in order to defeat Weird.
 
because northstar and multiple man have never been trained to deal with powered opponents... ha, ok. now include that MJ has both MM and NS's powers(and whole lifes experiences)... Thats one army of normal people and one army of flying speedsters. BOTH being adept in fighting powered opponents. your regs and doom have NO chance... magik gets absorbed and now you have a army of flying, magic, teleporting, speedsters with a soulsword of thier own

now your having starhawk take out CM and Thanos... starhawks CA is in no comparison with CM's. CM has mastered CA not including his centuries to perfect that and energy manipulation. then add thanos... and lets say that the wierd defeats thanos and CM(but not in time to save starhawk)...


after defeating the two most powerful characters on my team, wierd has no chance against an army of soul sword weilding, flying, speedster, teleporting, magicians. especially when hes teleported to the armies home in limbo..
 
That seems like a bit too much of an in-battle upgrade for Mountjoy to still be a med, doesn't it?
 
speed, flight, multiplication, teleportation, absorbtion and some magic

Ganymede MU -- Enhanced stats(str, speed, durability, reflexes, senses), flight belt, and a staff that can release energy
 
The Immortals

I think the speed and tech advantage are sufficient to win here.

Who?

I found Who?'s more convincing. AS' write-up, although I don't understand the reason behind it, was thus rushed that I had trouble understanding all of it. I also despise the Mountjoy technique.
 
how so? he has the powers of 3 regs
I won't go into whether that particular power combination makes him uber, since I've already voted and it's not my match. But I would like to make a general comment on that reasoning:

Certain powers are worth more when combined than they're worth individually. E.g., having a guy with both super-speed and a death touch is far more useful than having one guy with superspeed and another guy with a death touch.

I'm just saying we shouldn't always assume that combining three reg powers can't make more than a medium -- it depends on what the powers are.
 

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