DTL Season 5-Week 8 (Set 1)

[Khellendros]

I don't think Kal would be able to fry Pulse-8's board in the first few seconds.

Really. I would love to know the examples of his keyboard's extreme durability you're basing this on.

But my thinking was that Zemo would only need to protect Pulse-8 from Supes long enough for him to press a hotkey on his keyboard (or a couple of keys). I could see Zemo doing that. And if Pulse issues the right command...

That's also assuming Pulse couldn't come up with a way to protect himself during prep-time (don't know if he can though, so I really didn't consider it).

So, you see Zemo's future sight as flawless? Because I thought he only saw possible futures. Also, I love how when our tech guy gives out stuff like teleport belts or flight rings, it gets **** on. But improving the reality warping tech from another universe? Perfectly acceptable.

Also, I don't think Pulse ever used his keyboard on himself, did he?

Anyways, yes, there are a lot of things Pulse-8 COULD have done, because he's a reality warper. Reality warpers on the scale of him and the Doctor are, potentially, unbeatable. I refuse to write him as such, just as I wouldn't expect Gog to write my guys the same way.

And, on the subject of reality warping: Dr. Strange, whose mystical knowledge this version of Stark has, has shown the ability to counter MASSIVE scale reality warping before, both against an Infinity Gauntlet user (well, he just prevented a small part of it from happening, as opposed to actively fighting it) and recently protecting a number of mutants from Scarlet Witch's proclamation.

 

[wiegeabo]

First, I didn't say the keyboard was durable enough to withstand the heat vision. I was basing it on Zemo protecting Pulse from the vision.

And Gog gave what I though was a decent reason why Reed would be able to modify the keyboard, at least a little, by adding some kind of hotkey. If this hotkey did something like 'teleport Supes away', it buys them a second or two. Or maybe it creates a bunch of kryptonite and weakens him a bit. Or something or the other. Like you said, he is a reality warper, so I'd think he'd be able to do something if given the time.

 

[Khellendros]

First, I didn't say the keyboard was durable enough to withstand the heat vision. I was basing it on Zemo protecting Pulse from the vision.

Well, you saying "Especially if..." seemed to mean that even if Zemo didn't act to protect him, his keyboard would be able to withstand it. So, we come back to my other question. You see Zemo's foresight as being, basically, perfect?

And Gog gave what I though was a decent reason why Reed would be able to modify the keyboard, at least a little, by adding some kind of hotkey. If this hotkey did something like 'teleport Supes away', it buys them a second or two. Or maybe it creates a bunch of kryptonite and weakens him a bit. Or something or the other. Like you said, he is a reality warper, so I'd think he'd be able to do something if given the time.

Okay, fine. So, ignoring all the OTHER issues with Reed adapting it (it's far beyond what other tech guys have gotten voted against for, it's a completely alien piece of tech, etc.) We're still talking about Superman M* firing his heat vision the INSTANT he knows them, and a beam of energy travelling (presumably) at the speed of light with sufficient power behind it to render the thing molten shrapnel on contact. That still should be much faster than it takes Pulse to even realize the match has started, much less physically reaching over and punching the key.

 

[Aristotle]

Well, you saying "Especially if..." seemed to mean that even if Zemo didn't act to protect him, his keyboard would be able to withstand it. So, we come back to my other question. You see Zemo's foresight as being, basically, perfect?

Does it take perfect foresight to know that the first thing your team will do is destroy the keyboard, and that the best way to do that is with Kal? ****, I don't have Cosmic Awareness, but I think that's what I'd assume was going to happen as well.

Okay, fine. So, ignoring all the OTHER issues with Reed adapting it (it's far beyond what other tech guys have gotten voted against for, it's a completely alien piece of tech, etc.) We're still talking about Superman M* firing his heat vision the INSTANT he knows them, and a beam of energy travelling (presumably) at the speed of light with sufficient power behind it to render the thing molten shrapnel on contact. That still should be much faster than it takes Pulse to even realize the match has started, much less physically reaching over and punching the key.

What I see this argument as, is the keyboard having a hotkey or some kind of programming to make its move the instant the fight starts. Furthermore, I don't know why any of this centers on the keyboard: Zemo can just put a portal up in front of Pulse-8 and protect him that way.

 

[Khellendros]

Does it take perfect foresight to know that the first thing your team will do is destroy the keyboard, and that the best way to do that is with Kal? ****, I don't have Cosmic Awareness, but I think that's what I'd assume was going to happen as well.

Really? He wouldn't try to steal it at super speed, and give to to Stark? Or try to take over his mind before he can strike the first key, and force him to work against his team? Or, hell, have Stark destroy it with a spell? Out of all the possibilities, heatvision is really the first one Zemo would think of? Really?

What I see this argument as, is the keyboard having a hotkey or some kind of programming to make its move the instant the fight starts. Furthermore, I don't know why any of this centers on the keyboard: Zemo can just put a portal up in front of Pulse-8 and protect him that way.

He still, one assumes, has to hit the damned key. That is ow hotkeys work, yes? Taking a single keystroke or small set of keys to perform a set function, yes? And, can Zemo make a fully spherical portal? Because that's really what he'd need to do.

 

[Aristotle]

Really? He wouldn't try to steal it at super speed, and give to to Stark? Or try to take over his mind before he can strike the first key, and force him to work against his team? Or, hell, have Stark destroy it with a spell? Out of all the possibilities, heatvision is really the first one Zemo would think of? Really?

All but one of those involves something that could easily have been prevented with a portal in front of the keyboard.

And, can Zemo make a fully spherical portal? Because that's really what he'd need to do.

Suppose I don't know the answer to that. But why would he need to do that?

 

[Khellendros]

All but one of those involves something that could easily have been prevented with a portal in front of the keyboard.

Again, Zemo would need a spherical one, since Superman can, you know, come up from behind him, from the side, from directly above. All that fun stuff. Oh, and lovely idea, cutting the keyboard off completely like that, since Pulse still has to touch it to type on it.

Suppose I don't know the answer to that. But why would he need to do that?

Because that's the only way to actually protect the keyboard...? I mean, unless you think he can not only tell that Superman is going to hit it with heatvision, but the exact angle he's going to attack from?

 

[Aristotle]

So how is this character not tuber again?

 

[XFanTim]

I've already expressed the opinion that Superman 1-Million should be tuber, but Pulse-8 is just as bad in his own way. "Reality warping" is just too open-ended a power -- basically the power to "do anything". The only reason the guy was allowed was because he doesn't have any enhanced durability, meaning you could take him down before he beats you with his do-anything power. Of course, when Khell actually does that people say "Why didn't Pulse-8 or his teammate protect him long enough to use the keyboard?" Which just goes to show that the justification for allowing him in the first place was flawed.

I'd be happier if Pulse-8 and Superman 1 Million were both tuber.

 

[Aristotle]

I'll co-sign that.

 

[Khellendros]

So how is this character not tuber again?

Wait..WHAT?? He's tuber because he can... hit a keyboard with heatvision?

 

[Aristotle]

Because the way you're arguing, there's literally no way to stop him from one-shotting an uber within microseconds of the match starting. One of the most dangerous, top-shelf ubers around. Start out at the opposite end of the battleground? No worries, his heat vision has no limits. Put something in his way? Nah, with his Flash-level speed, he'll just dodge it. Teleport him away? Don't be silly, he's got a boom tube.

The character is literally unbeatable. He's got the speed to dodge anything but a Flash-level speedster, and with someone that fast, he'll just one-shot them with any one of his numerous, top-shelf powers. Since no one can possibly react fast enough, he can win the fight before the other ubers even know it started.

I challenge you to come up with a scenario in which he loses. I know you won't, using the excuse that you're not going to give your future opponents ideas, but still, I challenge you to come up with that scenario.

Maybe that's how the DTL has to work. One character in each classification who can beat all the other ones with disturbing ease. The regs have Atom, the ubers have S1M, who do the meds have?

 

[Khellendros]

Because the way you're arguing, there's literally no way to stop him from one-shotting an uber within microseconds of the match starting. One of the most dangerous, top-shelf ubers around. Start out at the opposite end of the battleground? No worries, his heat vision has no limits. Put something in his way? Nah, with his Flash-level speed, he'll just dodge it. Teleport him away? Don't be silly, he's got a boom tube.

Except for the Boom Tube use, nothing I've presented as a tactic is beyodn the capabilities of regula rold Superman.

The character is literally unbeatable. He's got the speed to dodge anything but a Flash-level speedster, and with someone that fast, he'll just one-shot them with any one of his numerous, top-shelf powers. Since no one can possibly react fast enough, he can win the fight before the other ubers even know it started.

Oh please, who said anything about dodging? I said he could reach around a ONE SIDED PORTAL, you overreacting *****. Christ.

I challenge you to come up with a scenario in which he loses. I know you won't, using the excuse that you're not going to give your future opponents ideas, but still, I challenge you to come up with that scenario.

What are you, ****ing ******ED? The point of these things is to WIN. Why the MOTHER**** would I present ways my character could lose? That's my opponents job. Oh, and don't think I don't appreciate how HARD you're debating this when it's not your match, and not even your POINT brought up during your vote. Piss off and take it to the rankings thread.

 

[XFanTim]

For what it's worth, the reason I think Supes 1-Mil is tuber is that he's kind of like Thanos or Doomsday-Brainiac with more powers (and thus less vulnerabilities).

Thanos: better than Superman-level strength/durability, super-genius intellect, telepathy, telportation, high level energy projection
Limitations: No where near Flash-level speed, meaning he's vulnerable to being blitzed by faster characters.

Doomsday-Brainiac: better than Superman-level strength/durability, better than Superman-level speed, super-genius intellect, telepathy, adaptation
Limitations: Can be beaten by teleporting him into space or into another dimension, since he can't fly or teleport himself. Doesn't really have any long range attacks (at least against people who are telepathy resistant).

Superman 1-Million: better than Superman-level strength/durability, better than Superman-level speed, super-genius intellect, telepathy, telekinesis, energy projection (specifically, his "force vision", which has moved galaxies), super-breath (supposedly strong enough to snuff out a red-giant star), teleportation, magic immunity

Basically, the only reason we allowed Thanos or Doomsday-Brainiac is because they have some exploitable drawbacks, and Superman 1-Million has pretty much all their powers and more, without the drawbacks.

Like I said, Pulse-8 is at least as tuber in his own way, since he can essentially do anything and his "limitation" (that you can supposedly take him down before he does anything) is easily circumvented.

 

[Khellendros]

Yes, and you know what? That's fine. Please, feel free to take this all over to the Ranking thread. What I find ridiculous is Ari throwing a fit over these fairly BASIC tactics I'm using, and the fact that I won't say "Okay, fine, his team wins, mine loses, and here's how best to beat my team..." **** that ****, the point of this thing is to win. And the fact that he feels the urge to not only run in and start a full-fledged debate with me when he's not even a part of this match, but does so in reaction to my replies to WIEG'S posts, is bull****. You want my guy banned? Fine. Not exactly a secret. But take it elsewhere.

 

[wiegeabo]

I have to agree. My explaining my vote to Khell has become a full on debate against him. If anyone is going to be debating Khell in this thread it's Gog, his opponent. If Gog wants to argue ranking problems, that's fine because it's their match.

Please take any further discussion of a character's ranking to the Ranking thread.

 

[Harlekin]

The Immortals and The Authorititans.

 

[Aristotle]

Piss off and take it to the rankings thread.

If the rankings thread had the slightest impact on rankings, I might. But since the most I can get there is a flippant brush-off from the commissioner, I figured I'd try my luck here.

 

[XFanTim]

For what it's worth, my comments on Superman 1-Mil's tuberness aren't an argument to vote against Khell -- for one thing, I voted for him. I just wanted to clarify that the reason I think the character should be tuber aren't that he took down Pulse-8 before he could do anything -- which, Khell's right, ordinary Superman could do just as easily.

Anyway, I've transferred the discussion to the rankings thread.

 

[XFanTim]

Close match...
I count the current score as: Immortals 4, B'wanna Bet? 3
Ari is up 7-0, of course.

 

[Khellendros]

Holy ****, we still won? Nice.

 

[XFanTim]

Well, unless someone else gets a vote in under the gun. The match isn't over until Wieg says it is.

But as it stands now, you got the first three votes, Gog got the next three, and then Harl's vote put you over the top.

 

[Aristotle]

for one thing, I voted for him.

I did too, which for some reason seems to just make him ANGRIER at me.

For what it's worth, I'm sad that I don't get to play the Immortals until (maybe) the postseason. That would be a fun match full of anger and rage. I think Khel vs. me would be more destructive in battle than our characters.

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over.
Final results:

The Immortals 4
B'wana Bet? 3

The Nameless Wonders 0
The Authorititans 7