DTL Season 6-Week 2 (Set 1)

[Franklin Richards]

You're just taking it personal.

 

[wiegeabo]

Battle Time, Part 1

Adressing a couple of things from prep-time. Boomerang would not make an effective leader. He's never led a group (Outsiders, Suicide Squad,...). And even within groups he's never been one to take orders well or stick to the plan all the time. He's head-strong, disliking being told what to do, and tends to rush into situations without thinking them through.

Belle would make a more natural leader. But she's going to find Boomerand difficult to control. And Lia as well. Lia is known for just rushing into a situation without thinking. Even when a plan is in place or she knows better, she just jumps into a situation.

Those two personalities are big variables to overcome.

Lia Nelson vs. Exodus
Instantaneously, moving at the speed of light, Lia Nelson finds the positions of Chaos & Order, and she takes the fight to Exodus. Chase's physics distortion field, which has never been shown to affect light, and has in fact been shown to never affect light, doesn't slow her down in the least, since she's a being of light. Exodus, not being able to think faster than the speed of light, has not erected any forcefields yet, so she has a clear path.

Triplicating herself, she blasts Exodus with concussive energy millions of times in a second, from three directions. Shielded from his psychic attacks and constantly shifting all three of her positions at the speed of light, she has Exodus so on the ropes it isn't even funny. Without superspeed, he's wide open. Lia burns him to pieces and takes him apart.

Couple of things to counter this. The key to this argument (and most of Ari's arguments) is that, other than Jay, my team won't be able to respond when the battle starts.

Three ways around this. The first, is just to hide. Sure the speedsters can scour the house incredibly quickly. But if my team hides well enough that it take the speedsters the time required to think a thought to find them, the GL has his shield up, Exodus has his field up or even teleported to saftey. (The others could obviously have their stuff ready to go during prep.)

Second, Deadline could protect Exodus and Kyle by phasing them before the battle starts. Then they don't have to worry about being hit at all. Heck, Exodus has plenty of time to mentally attack the other ubers.

Third, similar to using DL, Ambrose could keep Exodus and Kyle and a bubble of accelerated time. In effect, giving them superspeed without actually giving them superspeed. (Since they'd be confined to the bubble, it's more like superspeed thinking than anything else).


And as long as they get a little time, Exodus can unleash a psionic blast in all directions, severly jacking up the thoughts of other ubers, and Kyle can programs his ring to attack at superspeeds. Granted the ring might not be as creative as Kyle, but it can react at (near) light speeds since it essential runs off of light (in a sense) and just needs Kyle's will to keep it going.


I also want to address the claim that Chase can't effect light. Chase can distort the very laws of physics. And even light must obey the laws of physics. If Ambrose slows down time, then light slows down. If he bends projectiles with gravity, then light also bends. The two reasons you don't see this? Light bends very little unless it's influenced by huge amounts of gravity over long distances. Then bending of light he's done in the comics is just so minute it can be ignored. And yes, in this case, if Lia converted herself to light, she should be able to get through without really being 'bent'.

But, in cases where time is stopped in the comics (like the Strange pic from last week), everything still appears visible. But that shouldn't work because the light isn't moving. So it should be reaching our eyes, so we shouldn't see anything. Everything within a time-frozen area should be black to those outside because light isn't moving. And the only reason we 'see' what's happening is that the artists couldn't just very well show us black panels. So, if Chase uses this method, even Lia in light form would find herself frozen in place.

Living Lightning vs. Jay Garrick
Jay and Living Lightning meet at the halfway point, both cruising toward each other at the same speed. LL is in plasma form, as instructed by Boomer, to protect himself from the majority of, if not all of, Jay's attack moves. In fact, all Jay can really do against an energy being is run fast.

For that reason alone, this fight is all LL's. The physics distortion field doesn't apply here for several reasons which are delineated in the notes section at the end. Living Lightning, as a plasma being, can match Garrick for speed and has the added advantage of being impervious to physical damage. He's a superior hand to hand fighter, and he has electrical blasts and forcefields. Jay just has his superspeed, since his tricks can't really do anything against a plasma being.

This fight isn't over quickly by any stretch, but can there really be any doubt about the outcome? They're evenly matched for speed, but Living Lightning can also blast Jay with lightning and shove him with forcefields. If that weren't enough, Jay can't damage LL in this form. Living Lightning renders Jay unconscious.

Probably the toughest fight for my lower characters because it's going to be hard to harm LL. But Jay is no slouch. He's been dodging lightning throwers, energy shooters, and other speedsters for decades. He has far, far more experience than LL. He's got far more experience than everyone on the battlefield. If anyone can keep LL busy until he gets help, it's Jay.

And where does it say that LL can project forcefields? No bio I found said that. He can shoot 'lightning'. And he can protect himself within a field. But nothing about projecting a field out somewhere.

Liberty Belle II vs. Ambrose Chase
Ambrose's physics distortion field would shut most people down, but Liberty Belle is moving at superspeed, and he has the field spread very wide to try and catch the incoming attackers. As a result, she can still move faster than him, although it is markedly slower than her normal speed. In this fight, the outcome is down to her superstrength. Ambrose may get in a couple shots, but she has enhanced durability and can take a couple shots. He, on the other hand, cannot take too many superstrength punches at a speed noticeably elevated compared to his own, being a generally normal-strength human being. So Jesse punches him out.

Belle's not going to touch Ambrose. He can put a null field around himself that stops everything. It just robs everything of kinetic energy. No kinetic energy, no movement. Think Turtle with a 10ish foot range. And once Belle's stuck, all Ambrose has to do is turn up the gravity, pinning her in place. Then shoot her between the eyes.

Green Lightning vs. Green Lantern
Green Lightning engages Green Lantern. The physics distortion isn't a factor because Liberty Belle's already taken it out by the time GL would hit it. This is an evenly matched battle. However, Lia deals with Exodus fairly quickly (a matter of seconds) and switches partners. Green Lightning rings up psi-shielded bubbles around the pieces of Exodus' body to prevent them from healing back together in some ridiculous way. She then returns to join Lia against Kyle. In an evenly matched battle between Green Lanterns, a triplicating concussive-energy blaster moving at the speed of light tips the balance, and Kyle goes down.

This reminds me of something else. How does LL know about Exodus and tell the others about him? I guess the claim would be using Avenger files. But would LL necessarily have read file on Exodus? And since he can't access the files in prep-time, would he really know about him?


A GL vs GL fight is going to be a tough one. GL can switch to super speed when she needs it, but one of Kyle's best friends is the Flash, and you know they've trained together in the League. So he knows how to deal with a speedster (and how to deal with a Lantern since he's trained in the Corps and fought the Sinestro Corps).

But the trump card here is the Green Lightning doesn't really exist. She's actually a part of Kyle's imagination made real through his Lantern powers. This should mean that, at the very least, he can drain her Lantern powers into his ring. At most, absorb her back inside him.

Captain Boomerang II vs. Deadline
Sure, Deadline has some durability, but against superspeed explosive boomerangs? The concussive force alone could potentially knock him out, and will definitely damage him. The explosions will only add to this. The razorangs as well, when thrown at superspeed, will damage his super-dense skin. Boomerang will be able to stay away from Deadline with speed bursts. Even though Deadline will undoubtedly phase as much as possible after the initial onslaught, the damage is done, and any time he goes solid, Boomer can nail him again before he can react. This fight is Boomer's.

Not sure how Boomerang's even going to touch DL since he can be intangible during prep-time before the fight even starts. And Boomer's not a speedster. He has bursts of speed over short distances, usually when throwing his 'rangs. But he doesn't run around at superspeed like Jay does. (Or even someone like Quicksilver would.)

So, his boomerangs wouldn't be effective. And yet DL can fire of his rifle, explosives, or even gas pellets. His helmet display will even help him target Boomer. And when (not if) Boomer's at normal speed, these weapons can take him down.

Notes
MOST IMPORTANT: My team dictates the matchups. I realize that Chaos & Order will almost certainly plan for different matchups, because they'll want to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses. But they simply don't have the speed to dictate matchups. The only matchup they have any hope of dictating is whoever they send Jay Garrick against, and my med is more than equipped to keep Garrick from fighting anyone except my med. Their regs have no superspeed, and therefore can't dictate anything. Their ubers likewise have no superspeed, and therefore can't dictate anything. My team dictates matchups.

True or not, it pretty much doesn't matter. My team can effectively counter any combination. So it's not going to be a clear cut victory, even if the speedsters dictate the matchups.

Distortion Field: Chase's power has never affected light, because everything affected by it remained visible. Therefore, a being of light such as Lia Nelson is unaffected.

Chase's powers have to effect light. They distort the laws of physics, and light is bound by those laws. If Ambrose stops time, the light inside will also be stopped.

Exodus: He can't possibly be thinking faster than Lia is moving. That's why he has no forcefield up. However, even if by some miraculous chance he did have one up before she attacked, it was almost certainly transparent. And if that's the case then, again, Lia can sail right through because she's a being of light and light moves through the transparent.

Exodus, Part 2: Why can Lia take down such a powerful uber so quickly? The answer is superspeed. Exodus can't keep up with her, especially since she can triplicate, blast him with concussive energy, and move at lightspeed. What does this tell us? It tells us that ubers should NOT be barred from using powers during prep time. That's a rule that was invented SPECIFICALLY to sneak Dr. Strange and his type under the tuber bar. It's high time we abandon that rule, as it unfairly limits legitimate ubers. How can a non-superspeed uber hope to beat a speedster without use of prep time? Dr. Strange and other tuber mages need to be tubered because it's what they deserve, and legitimate ubers need to be unshackled. There's absolutely no reason it should be this easy for someone to beat Exodus just because they're superfast. But it is this easy, because he's been neutered by a rule that was designed to sneak other characters into the game.

If Exodus was out in the open, it's very likely Lia could find him and attack him before he formed the thoughts needed to raise a psychic shield. But all Exodus needs is a few seconds. Just hiding might buy him that time. And if DL or Chase are backing him up, a few seconds shouldn't be a problem.

Distortion Field, Part 2: There are several reasons why the distortion field won't impact the med fight. First and foremost, the fight between Jay and Living Lightning would exit Chase's field of influence almost instantaneously, because he doesn't have superspeed. Second, he isn't surgical enough to target LL and not Jay. Third, if he somehow COULD do that, there would be a question of whether that constitutes a de facto upgrade for Jay, and how much of an upgrade it constitutes. Fourth, Living Lightning is in plasma form, and as such is arguably unaffected by the distortion field.

I'm not sure why getting help from Chase would bump Jay up in rank. It would be like the Invisible Woman trapping one of her regular ranked opponents before he beats her regular ranked teammate. Does that bump her teammate up in rank? Because then we're starting to take away the characters working as teams.

And the distortion field has to effect LL even in plasma form because plasma, like light, is bound by the laws of physics.


Now, if Jay and LL were going around the house at superspeed, then Chase likely isn't going to be a factor. Unless...Jay were to trick LL into getting too close to Chase?...

Living Lightning: Wieg might argue that I can't use the plasma form because I didn't delineate it in the lineup description. I don't think that such a (relatively) minor power needs to be delineated, but if that's what the voters decide, then that's still fine. The only thing that means is that LL isn't impervious to physical damage, but he still has his forcefield, and his lightning still gives him the clear, undisputed edge in the fight.

I won't argue that. I didn't include Exodus' ability to teleport. None of us list all our characters abilities/weaknesses. Just the general important stuff. Everything else needs to come from character knowledge. If Ari's team doesn't know Exodus can teleport, and mine doesn't know that LL can become plasma, then their out of luck.


Oh, by the way, did I mention that Exodus can teleport others. Say, opponents off the battlefield?...

 

[Aristotle]

You're just taking it personal.

Yeah. I am. You're ****ing bull****, dude, and I can't believe that's the childish-ass way you sort out your problems.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Calm down, Sally. What's wrong with you?

 

[Aristotle]

Calm down, Sally. What's wrong with you?

You are, dude. I am seriously disappointed that you are so petty as to resolve your problems in such a childish way. It's beneath you.

 

[Franklin Richards]

It's great how you can read my mind. It couldn't actually be true that I think the other teams had a better lineup.

Stop projecting. It's beneath you.

 

[Aristotle]

Boomerang would not make an effective leader. He's never led a group (Outsiders, Suicide Squad,...). And even within groups he's never been one to take orders well or stick to the plan all the time. He's head-strong, disliking being told what to do, and tends to rush into situations without thinking them through.

You contradict yourself. He definitely doesn't like to take orders, which is why he gravitates to the role of leader. In a group of followers, the one who rankles at following anyone's lead naturally takes control.

Belle would make a more natural leader.

Belle would be much more apt to follow, to allow herself to be a sort of check on Boomer's excess. This is the same role she plays with Damage. She doesn't lead him. She guides him. I think you're completely misplacing her personality.

Lia is known for just rushing into a situation without thinking.

Lia's personality is not nearly that defined. What's more, we've never really seen her on a consistent basis in the context of a real team. It's always rag-tag hodgepodge groupings, never a true squad. Besides, what's to plan? All that has to happen is she has to own the **** out of Exodus. And she does.

The first, is just to hide. Sure the speedsters can scour the house incredibly quickly. But if my team hides well enough that it take the speedsters the time required to think a thought to find them

It doesn't. It can't. The speedsters, remember, are thinking thoughts much quicker. That's superspeed 101. If they can react at superspeed, then they think at superspeed. They will find your team. So hiding doesn't work.

Second, Deadline could protect Exodus and Kyle by phasing them before the battle starts. Then they don't have to worry about being hit at all. Heck, Exodus has plenty of time to mentally attack the other ubers.

You are really overstating that phasing power. He can't do that much with it. He can pass through or into physical objects, but he can't stay phased indefinitely. And he can't use it on other people. The only way others could use it would be if he gave the device to them to use, and if the use it during prep time, that's illegal, because it's using a power.

Third, similar to using DL, Ambrose could keep Exodus and Kyle and a bubble of accelerated time. In effect, giving them superspeed without actually giving them superspeed.

He can't give them that much speed. If he can give them enough speed to come anywhere close to Lia's, then he is misranked. Furthermore, that's a battlefield upgrade to your ubers, specifically to Kyle, which pushes Kyle over the tuber bar. You can't put superspeed on a Green Lantern. And given the very physical nature of Exodus' psionic powers, I'd argue the same about him.

Therefore, none of these evasions works.

And as long as they get a little time

But they don't.

and Kyle can programs his ring to attack at superspeeds. Granted the ring might not be as creative as Kyle, but it can react at (near) light speeds since it essential runs off of light (in a sense) and just needs Kyle's will to keep it going.

The ring does not run off of light. It runs off of willpower. There is no reason to believe that it can react at superspeed. If it can, that is, again, tuber. Green Lantern powers at superspeed are tuber, so you want to think real carefully about making that argument, because you're on the verge of tubering every Green Lantern.

I also want to address the claim that Chase can't effect light. Chase can distort the very laws of physics. And even light must obey the laws of physics. If Ambrose slows down time, then light slows down. If he bends projectiles with gravity, then light also bends. The two reasons you don't see this? Light bends very little unless it's influenced by huge amounts of gravity over long distances. Then bending of light he's done in the comics is just so minute it can be ignored. And yes, in this case, if Lia converted herself to light, she should be able to get through without really being 'bent'.

And that's the point. There has been no real effect on light from Chase's field in the comics.

But, in cases where time is stopped in the comics (like the Strange pic from last week), everything still appears visible.

That's actually different, because stopping time is not the same as a physics distortion field. (I am so nerdy right now.) Stopping time means stopping everything, and essentially viewing it as if it were a paused movie. So the motion of light is also paused, which means you see everything as you would see it in that instant.

So, if Chase uses this method, even Lia in light form would find herself frozen in place.

It just doesn't work that way, not according to science. If he was truly stopping or affecting light, he would have to affect visibility in some way. Furthermore, it has been well established that Chase can't slow an uber speedster down substantially. If he could, he'd be looking at a nic fat uber ranking, so settle down with all your battlefield upgrades, partner. If the only way you can win this is with two tubers and an uber, then I'd say you lose.

If anyone can keep LL busy until he gets help, it's Jay.

On paper, that claim is awful hard to make. They are, at best, equal in speed, and LL may be a little faster. So basically that cancels speed out. Now you've got a regular old dude vs. a guy shooting lightning and projecting forcefields. I don't give that fight to the regular old dude.

And where does it say that LL can project forcefields? No bio I found said that.

Re-read the Wiki bio.

Belle's not going to touch Ambrose. He can put a null field around himself that stops everything. It just robs everything of kinetic energy. No kinetic energy, no movement. Think Turtle with a 10ish foot range.

Think about upgrading that character, because the way that character was always described to me was that he could not completely nullify superspeed. If he can, then that means he can rob speed as much as (or actually more than, really) the Flash can give it. And that is exactly what made the Turtle uber. Doesn't matter about his range. That is too much ability for a reg. But somehow, I don't expect the voters to care. Because no one gives a **** about the rules.

This reminds me of something else. How does LL know about Exodus and tell the others about him? I guess the claim would be using Avenger files. But would LL necessarily have read file on Exodus? And since he can't access the files in prep-time, would he really know about him?

So your argument is that he might not have read the file? Well, first of all, that's a weird assumption to make. Second of all, does my team really need an excuse to take out the big scary psionic dude?

A GL vs GL fight is going to be a tough one. GL can switch to super speed when she needs it

No she can't. Khel's going to conveniently not notice the fact that I'm probably losing myself the round by being far more honest than he even knows how to be, but she can only use one powerset per day. If she could switch between them both at will she'd be tuber.

but one of Kyle's best friends is the Flash, and you know they've trained together in the League. So he knows how to deal with a speedster (and how to deal with a Lantern since he's trained in the Corps and fought the Sinestro Corps).

He's not dealing with a speedster. He's dealing with a Green Lantern. Shortly after Exodus is dispatched, however, he's dealing with both. And you know he doesn't win that matchup.

But the trump card here is the Green Lightning doesn't really exist. She's actually a part of Kyle's imagination made real through his Lantern powers. This should mean that, at the very least, he can drain her Lantern powers into his ring. At most, absorb her back inside him.

That goes against the very concept of allowing the character into the League. If a character is deemed to not exist then she can't be in the League. You've disallowed all imaginary characters. The fact that this one is allowed means that the version we see is real.

Not sure how Boomerang's even going to touch DL since he can be intangible during prep-time before the fight even starts.

Again, massively overstating that power.

And Boomer's not a speedster. He has bursts of speed over short distances, usually when throwing his 'rangs. But he doesn't run around at superspeed like Jay does. (Or even someone like Quicksilver would.)

So he has to stop between dashes. Big deal.

So, his boomerangs wouldn't be effective. And yet DL can fire of his rifle, explosives, or even gas pellets.

He has to be tangible to do so. And once he's tangible, there go the superspeed boomerangs.

If Exodus was out in the open, it's very likely Lia could find him and attack him before he formed the thoughts needed to raise a psychic shield. But all Exodus needs is a few seconds.

She moves and reacts and thinks at lightspeed. He's not getting a few seconds.

And if DL or Chase are backing him up, a few seconds shouldn't be a problem.

And if DL or Chase are backing him up, you've either broken a rule or made him tuber. He's either used a power during prep, or he's been given too much speed.

I'm not sure why getting help from Chase would bump Jay up in rank. It would be like the Invisible Woman trapping one of her regular ranked opponents before he beats her regular ranked teammate. Does that bump her teammate up in rank? Because then we're starting to take away the characters working as teams.

Nope, it's not like that at all. When you increase one character's speed relative to the world around him, that is a powerup. That is the literal definition of superspeed. So you are powering Jay up.

Now, if Jay and LL were going around the house at superspeed, then Chase likely isn't going to be a factor. Unless...Jay were to trick LL into getting too close to Chase?...

Unless...LL isn't dumb enough to do that?

I won't argue that. I didn't include Exodus' ability to teleport. None of us list all our characters abilities/weaknesses. Just the general important stuff. Everything else needs to come from character knowledge. If Ari's team doesn't know Exodus can teleport, and mine doesn't know that LL can become plasma, then their out of luck.

Oh, by the way, did I mention that Exodus can teleport others. Say, opponents off the battlefield?...

Another thing about this match is that you haven't even done a writeup. Just a series of possibilities that "might" work in your favor.

 

[Aristotle]

It's great how you can read my mind. It couldn't actually be true that I think the other teams had a better lineup.

You vote in this match before debate has even really started. And in the other match, instead of voting against flagrant rule-breaking, you defend it. You're transparent, man.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'm sorry. I thought debate was over. It is the 30th after all. And I'm pretty sure that anyone who votes against you is "cheating" in your eyes.

What are you 12?

 

[Aristotle]

And I'm pretty sure that anyone who votes against you is "cheating" in your eyes.

Figured you'd say something like that. But the fact of the matter is, I don't accuse everyone who votes against me of cheating. I often very fervently disagree with them. Sometimes bitterly. But it's pretty rare that someone so transparently votes with preconceived intentions. You voted for wieg before he'd even defended his writeup. And over in the other thread, it is just absurd for you to not only be voting in favor of what you can clearly see (based on how you've talked about it) was a rules violation, but to be defending that rules violation. You're not supposed to be doing much debating on anyone's behalf except your own, but when you go out of your way to say that superspeed doesn't have to be included in brief descriptions, it's pretty obvious what your intentions were from the start.

I made you mad, so you hate me. Khel soothed your ego, so you like him. Fine. Whatever. I don't expect everyone to like me. But it really is too bad that you have to make your decisions in the DTL that way. Takes a lot of the fun out of it.

 

[Franklin Richards]

And everyone else who votes against you, will they be a bunch of cheaters for violating the rules? And it's a good thing you don't expect everyone to like you because the fact of the matter is no one likes you.

I was voting against you because of the lineups. But now you've worked so hard to convince me that I think I will vote against you every time now.

Isn't that fun?

Now why don't you type up your spiffy comeback and then we'll agree to never communicate with one another ever again. Works for me.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Chaos & Order - largely because of the reasoning behind the Kyle Rayner fight

Spanish Inquisition - because I do not think replicant could overload Superman Bluie while he just does nothing

 

[Nightwing]

Its not that he does nothing,he just doesnt expect the energy to be constant.He assumes he can absorb it and then that puts Replicant off using it or he runs out but Replicant doesnt run out and Supes overloads...

A believable tactic that Supes has fallen for before.

 

[Aristotle]

Heroes of the New Age, because of the Superman-Blue fight.

 

[Aristotle]

And everyone else who votes against you, will they be a bunch of cheaters for violating the rules?

Nope, just you. You're doubtless the only one who will actually go out of his way to defend rule-breaking, as opposed to those who ignore the issue, or who don't see it as a voting issue.

I was voting against you because of the lineups.

As opposed to voting on the writeups, which you're supposed to do, but you clearly didn't need to! You already knew who you were voting for.

 

[Nightwing]

Chaos & Order vs. Deadly Dozen - Again its the speed thing. You've got clear advantage with most characters having Superspeed. I can see Garrick and Chase having some sort of advantage and Rayner having an advantage over Green Lightening when it comes to ring wielding powers but flip her onto her superspeed and its all over.

 

[Nightwing]

Just something to point out...Ari in his line up has Captain Boomerang II yet in the update he doesnt...is this a legal transaction that wasnt updated?

 

[Aristotle]

Yes.

 

[LadyVader]

Chaos and Order
- Speed is one thing but there's nobody on Ari's team that I can see outsmart somebody on wieg's team.

- Heroes of the New Age
- Cause Nightwing seemed to know the terrain the most.

 

[Khellendros]

****ing house. And, honestly, the fact that people think Superman's just running around absorbing any radiation you throw at him without any control is absurd, but whatever.

Voting for Chaos & Order. The other team has an Uber who came from the mind of one of his guy, and he demonstrated he could put her back in the comic. Now, afterwards, we can discuss whether against the rules, but rule changes don't take effect retroactively. It may be sneaky, but it works, and is legal as far as I know. And, really, it's not like he had to pick Green Lightning for this fight, anyways.

 

[wiegeabo]

Heroes of the New Age

I give Wing an edge in the uber fight. Not much because Spartan's teleportation is lethally effective. But Khell didn't spell out his own strategy for the ubers. Just countered like in a debate.


Also, bonus props to Wing embracing the location the way he did. Making the characters actual toys made for a fun read.

 

[XFanTim]

I thought Nightwing had some good arguments regarding the lower levels, but ultimately I think the ubers will probably decide this match. I actually had some problems with how both sides treated the ubers. Khell doesn't really tell us how Superman beats Replicant, but just assures us he'd do it easily. Replicant gave Walter West quite a hard time, so he shouldn't be that much of a pushover. Then again, it's also not clear to me that Superman would absorb the Replicant's radiation to the point of being incapacitated, as Nightwing writes it. He can instantaneously zap from place to place, right? Seems like he could just dodge it.

So that part I kind of call a tie, which brings me to the other ubers. I really didn't buy Spartan going down by being thrown into the fire. First, just because the fire is big doesn't mean that it's super hot, it's just an ordinary fire that's very large. So I don't think it would hurt someone with Spartan's durability. (Nightwing may be interpreting it that the characters' durability is reduced to that of an action figure, but I don't see it that way. If they have enhanced durability as a power, then that power applies to the match.) Even if his durability didn't save him, Spartan also has forcefields. And if that didn't save him, he could just teleport out of the fire long before he melted. So that strategy definitely wouldn't work. In contrast, Khell's way of beating Martian Manhunter, by having Superman disrupt his psychic energy, seems pretty sound.

The Spanish Inquisition (The biggest thing is I just couldn't buy Spartan being taken down by a fireplace. It works against Martian Manhunter because fire is his weakness.)

In the other battle, I think speed probably trumps leadership, strategy, or anything else. If Kyle and Exodus aren't fast enough to raise their shields before the speedsters hit them, it's game over. The "hiding" strategy didn't really convince me. A single house (even a giant size one) is just too small to offer enough hiding places. A team of speedsters could easily search it (including all closets and toy chests) in the blink of an eye. If this were one of the city-sized battlefields, I'd find it a bit more believable.

Phasing them to protect them from speed attacks (as Wieg suggested in the debate) seems like a better strategy. But Ari claims Deadline can't phase anyone but himself. I don't really remember how Deadline's phasing power works -- this bio only mentions walking through walls, but this one claims he can make anything he touches intangible. But at best you're having to start the battle with Deadline literally holding Exodus and Green Lantern's hands, which doesn't seem like the optimum way to have your team positioned. I'm also not sure phasing protects from other Flash powers like speed-stealing.

Still, I like the phasing strategy a lot better than the original "hiding" strategy. But Wieg didn't really respond to Ari's objections to the phasing approach. So ultimately, I think I'll go with The Deadly Dozen

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over.
Final Results:

The Deadly Dozen 2
Chaos & Order 4

The Spanish Inquisition 2
Heroes of the New Age 4