The Dark Knight Evolution of the Batmobile and the Joker Motivation

[chamber-music]

2.) Eric Roberts seems to confirm in his clip that the Joker is indeed holding the mob ransom and the slightly misleading teaser trailer may merely be Bruce and Alfred's educated guess as to what could possibly be the Joker's motivation. They think the mob came to the Joker to get rid of Batman, but in actuality the Joker's using the stolen money to blackmail the mob into helping him kill Batman. As Marlo from The Wire would say, "You want it to be one way, but its the other way."

Oh Wow
I never thought of that. The Joker steals the mobs money from the bank which is why William Fitcher says "do you know who I work for?"

Although I don't understand why the Joker needs the mobs help to take down Batman

 

[ActuallyRobin]

I always thought the Tumbler was very Lamborghini Countach esque, well Lamborghini esque anyway

 

[COMPO]

hey, will we ever see the batcopter cos the one from DKR looked quite good.

 

[jtfaria]

Based on the BOF links today of the Eric Roberts interview and the MTV toy demonstration, I decided to provoke discussion on some things I hope are new or interesting.

1). Might Bruce's new Lamborghini become (or may already be) the basis for the new batmobile in the 3rd movie? The MTV clip show it being outfitted with guns and weapons. While this might be just for the toy, I'm now thinking that it may well be presented as another evolutionary building block in the progression of Nolan's Batman.

2.) Eric Roberts seems to confirm in his clip that the Joker is indeed holding the mob ransom and the slightly misleading teaser trailer may merely be Bruce and Alfred's educated guess as to what could possibly be the Joker's motivation. They think the mob came to the Joker to get rid of Batman, but in actuality the Joker's using the stolen money to blackmail the mob into helping him kill Batman. As Marlo from The Wire would say, "You want it to be one way, but its the other way."

Well thought out, well done. I'd had some of those same thoughts about the Batmobile, but you articulated them better than I would have.

Nolan keeps saying each film is his last, yet he seems to structure each one so there is something to build on. Clearly he loves these Batman projects, though they must be overwhelming.

Re the Joker: Your explanation makes great sense all around. Therefore, it's what I expect to see in the film.

This is going to tick some people off, but I have noticed that some of the "newbies" and seldom-posters (such as yourself) often have a great deal more worth saying than some of the grizzled veterans on this board with thousands of posts. Makes ya think.

 

[COMPO]

must be cos they fresh and have just been an observer for a while.

 

[chamber-music]

Nolan keeps saying each film is his last, yet he seems to structure each one so there is something to build on. Clearly he loves these Batman projects, though they must be overwhelming.

I agree. These big budget Bat films are long shoots that take place all over the world. Major franchises take alot out of directors. Which is why I'm glad he just focuses on making the best film he can at the time and then hopefully he will comeback rengerized for a sequel in a couple of years.

Especially after Heath and the stunt guy dieing.

 

[GoogleMe94]

burton didnt want to come back either, he had to get "re-engaged" in the material to be able to do a 2nd film. he doesnt just want to do a sequel to make more money, he wants to feel connected with it. but burton innitially had no interest, like nolan, but he did it anyway. nolan, im not sure why he decided to do a sequel when he said that he had no intention of it. i heard it was because he was interested in the Joker, is that true?

 

[jtfaria]

Although I don't understand why the Joker needs the mobs help to take down Batman

Powerful men become so by taking control of existing resources – such as men, money, machines. In this case, the Joker uses the mob's own money to make the mob do his bidding. Which is brilliant, both from the standpoint of the Joker's actions and in terms of the screenwriter's concept. If the film does not play out this way, it will need to top it or I will certainly be disappointed.

Batman is powerful because he also has control of a great deal of money, and therefore he also controls men's actions (Fox et all who build things for him, Gordon who co-operate with him, etc.). And of course, he has all those wonderful toys.

For Joker to be a truly worthy adversary to Batman, he would need similar resources at his disposal. Nolan seems to understand that. Burton's Batman tried to do the same sort of thing, but the way Joker's rise to power was portrayed was cartoonish and unrealistic. Gaining control of major resources, capable of standing up to Wayne's billions, is a huge challenge. In fact, as we saw in Begins, even KEEPING control of an empire is a challenge!

 

[jtfaria]

nolan, im not sure why he decided to do a sequel when he said that he had no intention of it. i heard it was because he was interested in the Joker, is that true?

He has said in interviews that he found the Joker a compelling character, one he wanted to explore. (Sentiments to that effect anyway.) He has also said he likes doing this kind of 'summer blockbuster' film, even though he started out doing 'artier' films.

Nolan apparently has definite ideas re who in the Batman rogues' gallery 'work' for him, and which don't. He apparently does not think the Penguin 'works'. I think the same may be true for the Riddler. Obviously, Ra'as worked, Scarecrow works, the Joker works and Two-Face works. I'd bet Catwoman does as well.

 

[jtfaria]

Especially after Heath and the stunt guy dieing.

Exactly. Imagine the stress and pressure of these projects. And yet he seems so calm, focused, and collected.

 

[chamber-music]

Nolan apparently has definite ideas re who in the Batman rogues' gallery 'work' for him, and which don't. He apparently does not think the Penguin 'works'. I think the same may be true for the Riddler. Obviously, Ra'as worked, Scarecrow works, the Joker works and Two-Face works. I'd bet Catwoman does as well.

I get the feeling he could pull off adapting most of Batmans rogues to screen. The real deal breaker is which villians intrest him the most and add to his Batmans journey/story, as well as his Gothams.

 

[Mr. Socko]

He has said in interviews that he found the Joker a compelling character, one he wanted to explore. (Sentiments to that effect anyway.) He has also said he likes doing this kind of 'summer blockbuster' film, even though he started out doing 'artier' films.

Nolan apparently has definite ideas re who in the Batman rogues' gallery 'work' for him, and which don't. He apparently does not think the Penguin 'works'. I think the same may be true for the Riddler. Obviously, Ra'as worked, Scarecrow works, the Joker works and Two-Face works. I'd bet Catwoman does as well.

Why would the Riddler not work?

Anyway, that reminds me of the time last year when half the board thought Anthony Michael Hall's character would become the Riddler. Ahh, good times.

 

[jtfaria]

I get the feeling he could pull off adapting most of Batmans rogues to screen. The real deal breaker is which villians intrest him the most and add to his Batmans journey/story, as well as his Gothams.

I agree. It's not so much whether he and the skilled people he attracts could do it. It's a question of what he wants to pursue.

I guess we just have to hope he wishes to continue to pursue the Batman franchise. But I'll tell you what - he's already laid a foundation others can build on. I was convinced of this when I saw the clips from the accompanying anime DVD. So if Nolan leaves, we're not necessarily going back to something Schumacher-esque, as so many seem to fear. It's possible to go someplace even more interesting. But it still comes down to the franchise being in the right hands. I admit, I'd be nervous if Nolan left. All things being equal in this world, when a rare talent leaves, (s)he's usually replaced by something less.

 

[jtfaria]

Why would the Riddler not work?

That's not my call, but Nolan's. I seem to recall his saying something along the lines of 'we wouldn't do the Riddler'. I could be wrong about that. I know I saw a statement re the Penguin.

I think the Riddler WOULD be a tough fit, personally. But I may be wrong. It could be that some good research on the character would yield something fresh, but every time I think of him I see Frank Gorshin or Jim Carrey goofing around. Very entertaining (Gorshin was in the very first Batman TV episode), but probably not appropriate for Nolan's world.

Just my opinion, and I'm not welded to it. I could be proven wrong.

 

[Gianakin_]

I don't remember Nolan saying anything re: Riddler. Di you remember where you read it?

 

[GoogleMe94]

I'd bet Catwoman does as well.

i HEAVILY doubt that character would fit into nolans realism. the riddler is even more believable then catwoman.

 

[chamber-music]

Well all reports so far is that WB are so happy with the dailys of TDK they are ready to offer Nolan the job of directing the third film. I guess Nolan will wait of the figures and fan reaction when its released. With the movie already one of the most anticipated of the year on every poll and with lots of media coverage/intrest, I have no doubt the film will be sucessful.

 

[Bat-Mite]

The Riddler would work great if they portrayed him in a more serious way, like how he was in the Animated Series.

i HEAVILY doubt that character would fit into nolans realism. the riddler is even more believable then catwoman.

How is Catwoman any less realistic than Batman? It's pretty much the same concept, except she doesn't have as much money or as many gadgets, and is usually committing crimes instead of fighting them. Hell, even Year One (which was a major influence on Begins) had Catwoman.

 

[GoogleMe94]

The Riddler would work great if they portrayed him in a more serious way, like how he was in the Animated Series.How is Catwoman any less realistic than Batman? It's pretty much the same concept, except she doesn't have as much money or as many gadgets, and is usually committing crimes instead of fighting them. Hell, even Year One (which was a major influence on Begins) had Catwoman.

yeah but she doesnt wear armor or anything, nothing to protect herself with, and that whip, cmon! that worked wonderful in Burtons film, but nolans world wouldnt allow that to happen. and shes hopping around everywhere in that skin tight outfit, it would look silly and unrealistic in nolans world, even the modern boot wearing catwoman. personally, she was done near perfect in Returns, i wouldnt want to see some hack doing a "hot&sexy" cardboard cutout version of the character, espcially the actresses im seeing tossed around in the catwoman thread (jolie? theron? HELL NO!").

 

[jtfaria]

I don't remember Nolan saying anything re: Riddler. Di you remember where you read it?

No, I honestly can't. So many little nuggets of information go by. I could be mistaken. Still, he SEEMS like he'd be too silly for the Nolan continuity. Of course, he could alter the character, or pick up and expand on something buried in the dc universe somewhere, something I'm not familiar with. Maybe there's a less giddy version that's worth bringing to the screen. I mean, I HAVE seen such versions in recent years, like the HUSH version Jim Lee and company did. But he didn't seem memorable, not to me anyway. The Gorshin/Carey version was VERY memorable, but not a fit for Nolan. That's just my take.

 

[Mr. Socko]

No, I honestly can't. So many little nuggets of information go by. I could be mistaken. Still, he SEEMS like he'd be too silly for the Nolan continuity. Of course, he could alter the character, or pick up and expand on something buried in the dc universe somewhere, something I'm not familiar with. Maybe there's a less giddy version that's worth bringing to the screen. I mean, I HAVE seen such versions in recent years, like the HUSH version Jim Lee and company did. But he didn't seem memorable, not to me anyway. The Gorshin/Carey version was VERY memorable, but not a fit for Nolan. That's just my take.

The Riddler can be done in an over the top campy manner like Gorshin and Carrey. Or in a serious manner like John Glover's Riddler in TAS or the Long Halloween/Hush type Riddler. The campy Riddler(or any campy character) wouldn't work in Nolan's world and it's been perfected several times prior. If Riddler was done in a serious tone I'd only want him to have a supporting role though. Something like he was in TAS. And I think with a few alterations, Catwoman could work well in Nolan's world too.

 

[Gianakin_]

I think the TAS and TLH/Hush versions are memorable and serious enough.

 

[jtfaria]

yeah but she doesnt wear armor or anything, nothing to protect herself with, and that whip, cmon! that worked wonderful in Burtons film, but nolans world wouldnt allow that to happen. and shes hopping around everywhere in that skin tight outfit, it would look silly and unrealistic in nolans world, even the modern boot wearing catwoman. personally, she was done near perfect in Returns, i wouldnt want to see some hack doing a "hot&sexy" cardboard cutout version of the character, espcially the actresses im seeing tossed around in the catwoman thread (jolie? theron? HELL NO!").

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I still think something can be done with her in Nolan's world. I thought Miller did some great things with her in Year One and TDK Returns. I don't think this is about bringing back the Julie Newmar or Michele Pheiffer takes. I see her as a punkish hooker.

I don't see Jolie or Theron in the part, either. Too obvious for the typically crafty Nolan casting crew. Although Theron sure looked hot as Aeon Flux. You want to see that in HD. Plodding plot, but eye-popping. Especially HER.

 

[Gianakin_]

Actually, I think Catwoman would fit like a glove in the Nolanverse. The Hush/TLH version, at least.

 

[jtfaria]

If Riddler was done in a serious tone I'd only want him to have a supporting role though. Something like he was in TAS. And I think with a few alterations, Catwoman could work well in Nolan's world too.

I think that's just it: Riddler isn't interesting enough unless he's campy, and you don't want him campy. So he takes some small role. Come to think of it, he only had a small (but important) role in Hush. In fact, the reason Hush worked is that you tended to forget about the Riddler when you were trying to figure out who was behind everything. The plot depended on him being forgettable.