Sci-Fi Fallout | Amazon Prime

[Punisher_MAX]

Part of it is the gameplay. The first two games are turn based cRPGs that were far more open ended. Fallout 3 and 4 fail at all three of their core design pillars. The shooting mechanics in the 3d games are some of the worst I've ever experienced in a triple A release to date. Character builds have next to no bearing on gameplay or role playing opportunities and quest design is incredibly basic.The open worlds in Bethesda's games are a chore to navigate. Then there's also the inconsistent world design itself. In Fallout 1 and 2, very few settlements are built out of prewar buildings. In 3D Fallout, it's almost exclusively prewar buildings (despite it being 300 years after the bombs fell.) The 3d games also have you eat 300 year old food. There are production reasons for this. Fallout 3 was originally supposed to be a prequel and take place 20-30 years after the bombs fell but they changed directions two thirds of the way through development which was a mistake in my opinion. Fallout 1 and 2 had their sillier moments but those moments were typically found in non canon random encounters on the world map and the stuff that was canon made sense for the location (the porn studio in New Reno, The Hubologists etc)

There's also the lore stuff that gives the impression that the folks at Bethesda had never actually played the first two games like Jet being on the east coast, how the Brotherhood of Steel and the enclave are portrayed, synths, etc. Its like they read a wiki and made a list of Fallout buzzwords and threw them in at random places in script.

Fallouts original creator Tim Cain said they went with an Ink Spots song in Fallout 1 as a tribute to his father. They didn't go with "I don't want to set the world on fire" because he felt it was too on the nose. I think it's the perfect metaphor for the design philosophy differences from Interplay and Bethesda.

New Vegas is the unholy combination of both, it fails at being an FPS and an open world game but core role playing experience is there and quest design is substantially better. If someone turned New Vegas into a proper cRPG, I'd probably never touch the original game again. Hell, New Vegas even makes jokes about Fallout 3s dumber story elements.


As far as the show goes, I think they made the best decision by going back to west coast because the lore is more consistent and you don't have to deal with the ridiculous factions on east coast. I'll give the show a 10/10 right now if synths don't show up at all. They probably will but I've made peace with that.

Some of your gripes feel petty, and sounds like you hate that Bethesda made Fallout a post apocalyptic Skyrim more than anything else.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Some of your gripes feel petty, and sounds like you hate that Bethesda made Fallout a post apocalyptic Skyrim more than anything else.

It only seems petty because Bethesda was how you were introduced to the IP. And yes, it being post apocalyptic Skyrim is a major problem. I'm sorry it seems petty to want a Fallout game instead of a glorified Oblivion total conversion mod. "You don't like it because it's Oblivion with guns" was always been the weirdest rebuttal I've gotten. No **** that's part of why don't like it. If the actual "game" part of Fallout 3 had been good, I could have let a lot of **** go. Borderlands and Rage aren't anything to write home about narratively but the gameplay is there. When you're adapting a true cRPG, Bethesda's Wide as an Ocean, Shallow as a puddle design philosophy isn't going to cut it.

If you want to see a revival from a new developer done right, play Deus Ex Human Revolution. While the lore in that game doesn't exactly line up either, you can at least tell the devs have actually played the original Deus Ex and Invisible War. HR was designed with original games design philosophy in mind and intact.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

It only seems petty because Bethesda was how you were introduced to the IP. And yes, it being post apocalyptic Skyrim is a major problem. I'm sorry it seems petty to want a Fallout game instead of a glorified Oblivion total conversion mod. "You don't like it because it's Oblivion with guns" was always been the weirdest rebuttal I've gotten. No **** that's part of why don't like it. If the actual "game" part of Fallout 3 had been good, I could have let a lot of **** go. Borderlands and Rage aren't anything to write home about narratively but the gameplay is there. When you're adapting a true cRPG, Bethesda's Wide as an Ocean, Shallow as a puddle design philosophy isn't going to cut it.

If you want to see a revival from a new developer done right, play Deus Ex Human Revolution. While the lore in that game doesn't exactly line up either, you can at least tell the devs have actually played the original Deus Ex and Invisible War. HR was designed with original games design philosophy in mind and intact.

It's not that serious.

A gaming company made the game with fare more GA appeal and has gone on to be wildly successful. Crazy.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

It's not that serious.

A gaming company made the game with fare more GA appeal and has gone on to be wildly successful. Crazy.

And Superman snapping a dude's neck wasn't thar serious either, right?

 

[Punisher_MAX]

And Superman snapping a dude's neck wasn't thar serious either, right?

No? lol. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Pennywise]

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

No? lol. What does that have to do with anything?

Or thar new Crow trailer? I just find it hypocritical that when a comic book character gets creatively **** on, folks around here lose their minds, but when it happens to a video game franchise, " its not that big of a deal."

 

[Venom 1988]

Or thar new Crow trailer? I just find it hypocritical that when a comic book character gets creatively **** on, folks around here lose their minds, but when it happens to a video game franchise, " its not that big of a deal."

Because it's false equvalency. You're literally comparing things like Jet existing on the east coast to a fundamental misunderstanding of Superman as a character. It's not the same thing.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Because it's false equvalency. You're literally comparing things like Jet existing on the east coast to a fundamental misunderstanding of Superman as a character. It's not the same thing.

It is 100% the same thing. Jet being on the east coast is not the problem, its a symptom of the problem. That problem being Bethesda doesn't understand the material. Again, the only reason you guys are coming to defend this stuff is because it's how you were introduced to the IP.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[Venom 1988]

It is 100% the same thing. Jet being on the east coast is not the problem, its a symptom of the problem. That problem being Bethesda doesn't understand the material. Again, the only reason you guys are coming to defend this stuff is because it's how you were introduced to the IP.

This is the dumbest thing and is gatekeeping. You think because we didn't play the Interplay games first means we don't have a grasp as to what Fallout is? Or that we can't critically think for ourselves and that we're just drinking the Bethesda Kool-Aid? Does one have to have been introduced to the original 1938 version of Superman first in order to properly understand the character?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

This is the dumbest thing and is gatekeeping. You think because we didn't play the Interplay games first means we don't have a grasp as to what Fallout is? Or that we can't critically think for ourselvles and that we're just drinking the Bethesda Kool-Aid? Does one have to have been introduced to the original 1938 version of Superman first in order to properly understand the character?

I dont really care if you think its gatekeeping. Superman has had people writing the character since 38 that actually understands him. Fallout has not. Bethesda bought the Fallout IP so they churn out twice the output with minimal effort and sell you Vaultboy shirts at Walmart. Considering their other two games, Fallout 4 and 76, got objectively worse supports this. Being willing to defend a game with gameplay as bad as Fallout 3, you're definitely drinking something.

It's kinda sad that it took 20 years and Starfeild for gamers to figure out that Bethesda just redskins the same broken tech sells it back to you lol.

 

[BoredGuy]

It is 100% the same thing. Jet being on the east coast is not the problem, its a symptom of the problem. That problem being Bethesda doesn't understand the material. Again, the only reason you guys are coming to defend this stuff is because it's how you were introduced to the IP.

This is the dumbest thing and is gatekeeping. You think because we didn't play the Interplay games first means we don't have a grasp as to what Fallout is? Or that we can't critically think for ourselvles and that we're just drinking the Bethesda Kool-Aid? Does one have to have been introduced to the original 1938 version of Superman first in order to properly understand the character?

No, I hear where you're coming from
Certain things might be nitpicky, like the jet stuff... but the characterization of factions is certainly a valid point, and I understand wanting a full on RPG over an open world FPS, different strokes and all that.

Some of JVZ's points, like the musical choices and build-crafting system, are definitely a preference thing, to keep belaboring the Superman analogy, it'd be like a fan of the 30's Superman comics bemoaning newer comics because "Superman can't fly, he's supposed to just leap really high!"

But to expect a certain type of game, and a certain tone, and get something totally different? I understand being disappointed about that. It may be time to move on about it, being over 25 years since the originals came out, but I get it

 

[blueharvest]

Nice to see this show getting so many positive reviews. Hope the show is good.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Wow. That's some high praise this is getting. Never played the games, but I do think this also bodes well for game adaptations, continuing along from what recent adaptations like Mario, the Sonic films, and Detective Pikachu have done as far as people enjoying them. (I haven't seen Five Nights at Freddy's, and I know I'm in the minority as having liked the 2021 Mortal Kombat film)

 

[BoredGuy]

Wow. That's some high praise this is getting. Never played the games, but I do think this also bodes well for game adaptations, continuing along from what recent adaptations like Mario, the Sonic films, and Detective Pikachu have done as far as people enjoying them. (I haven't seen Five Nights at Freddy's, and I know I'm in the minority as having liked the 2021 Mortal Kombat film)

It is pretty cool
Until recently the best video game movies were not based on real video games eg. Jumanji and Wreck It Ralph

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

No, I hear where you're coming from
Certain things might be nitpicky, like the jet stuff... but the characterization of factions is certainly a valid point, and I understand wanting a full on RPG over an open world FPS, different strokes and all that.

Some of JVZ's points, like the musical choices and build-crafting system, are definitely a preference thing, to keep belaboring the Superman analogy, it'd be like a fan of the 30's Superman comics bemoaning newer comics because "Superman can't fly, he's supposed to just leap really high!"

But to expect a certain type of game, and a certain tone, and get something totally different? I understand being disappointed about that. It may be time to move on about it, being over 25 years since the originals came out, but I get it

Thank you. I largely have moved on, but glimmers of hope like New Vegas and Microsoft buying Bethesda, Obsidian, and inXile make it difficult to not want more Fallout proper. When people go out of their way to dismiss the valid criticism of old school fans it really grinds my gears. That's why this even became a topic of discussion again. The original Fallout was a game changer for me. It was one of the first cRPGs I played that wasn't high fantasy, and had real social commentary in it. To see that turned into a product that's so corporately cynical in its execution is downright embarrassing.

 

[Venom 1988]

Being willing to defend a game with gameplay as bad as Fallout 3, you're definitely drinking something.

In all my posts, I never said anything about the gameplay (in fact it's my primary issues with the newer games). But if you feel the need to make a jab, you do you. My issue isn't with your criticism. Despite some of it either being nitpicky or just perferences, you do make some valid points. And like I said in a post last week, I think there are things worse in the newer games than the originals. My issue is that you feel the need to think there's nothing valid in the new games period. It's not all good but it's certaintly not all bad either. And I enjoy them as much as I enjoy the originals. So I don't like the implication you're giving off that I have to be drinking the Kool-Aid in order to like or even defend the games.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

In all my posts, I never said anything about the gameplay (in fact it's my primary issues with the newer games). But if you feel the need to make a jab, you do you. My issue isn't with your criticism. Despite some of it either being nitpicky or just perferences, you do make some valid points. And like I said in a post last week, I think there are things worse in the newer games than the originals. My issue is that you feel the need to think there's nothing valid in the new games period. It's not all good but it's certaintly not all bad either. And I enjoy them as much as I enjoy the originals. So I don't like the implication you're giving off that I have to be drinking the Kool-Aid in order to like or even defend the games.

From where I'm sitting, there's really isn't good in the newer game save for the score. The newer factions are either played for laughs or make zero sense within the setting. The Institute is Bethesda's biggest contribution to the Fallout lore and it would have been better off in Starfield because in Fallout its just dumb.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

In all my posts, I never said anything about the gameplay (in fact it's my primary issues with the newer games). But if you feel the need to make a jab, you do you. My issue isn't with your criticism. Despite some of it either being nitpicky or just perferences, you do make some valid points. And like I said in a post last week, I think there are things worse in the newer games than the originals. My issue is that you feel the need to think there's nothing valid in the new games period. It's not all good but it's certaintly not all bad either. And I enjoy them as much as I enjoy the originals. So I don't like the implication you're giving off that I have to be drinking the Kool-Aid in order to like or even defend the games.

I still think it's weirdo behavior to be mad that a company made a wide appealing game that ended up being universally praised and led to the spike in interest in the IP, and being a gatekeeper about a niche, while solid, game, is just strange. It's within someone's right to feel some type of way, but the complaints just sound pretty silly to me.

Brandon Lee's Crow was a deviation from the source material, so bringing up a remake about that is weird too.

I don't care much for Superman, but his killing Zod was interesting as it DOES go against everything the character is, but had to make a massive moral decision to do it.

I do love Captain America but have no issue with him killing dudes in the MCU, he was a soldier, doesn't make him any less of a good person.

 

[Venom 1988]

From where I'm sitting, there's really isn't good in the newer game save for the score. The newer factions are either played for laughs or make zero sense within the setting. The Institute is Bethesda's biggest contribution to the Fallout lore and it would have been better off in Starfield because in Fallout its just dumb.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then I guess.

In the meantime, the show is almost here and I'm looking forward to it. Glad to see it's getting good reception so far.

I don't care much for Superman, but his killing Zod was interesting as it DOES go against everything the character is, but had to make a massive moral decision to do it.

I actually don't have a problem with Superman killing Zod or anyone for that matter. Just the specific way they went about it in MoS kinda rubs me the wrong way. But that's just me.

 

[Gothamsknight]

These reviews just make me so happy. I first played Fallout back in 2008 with Fallout 3. I've always been a huge fan of BGS games, and while I am much more partial to Elder Scrolls than I am Fallout, I still consider myself a fan of Fallout 3 and 4. Can't wait to start the first episode tonight!

On the topic of BGS, I'm so relieved that finally TES VI is up next for them.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then I guess.

In the meantime, the show is almost here and I'm looking forward to it. Glad to see it's getting good reception so far.



I actually don't have a problem with Superman killing Zod or anyone for that matter. Just the specific way they went about it in MoS kinda rubs me the wrong way. But that's just me.

I mean yeah, the movie sucked lol, but it was an interesting choice that wasn't executed the way it should have.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I still think it's weirdo behavior to be mad that a company made a wide appealing game that ended up being universally praised and led to the spike in interest in the IP, and being a gatekeeper about a niche, while solid, game, is just strange. It's within someone's right to feel some type of way, but the complaints just sound pretty silly to me.

Brandon Lee's Crow was a deviation from the source material, so bringing up a remake about that is weird too.

I don't care much for Superman, but his killing Zod was interesting as it DOES go against everything the character is, but had to make a massive moral decision to do it.

I do love Captain America but have no issue with him killing dudes in the MCU, he was a soldier, doesn't make him any less of a good person.

They could have a made Fallout game that appealed to wider audience while actually giving a **** about the IP in the process but they chose to take the lazy way out. Even if you remove the my criticism about the lore and the setting, how the game handles game logic, variables, and combat is objectively poorly implemented and 90% of the game is shooting stuff with ****ty shooting. You can call it "weirdo behavior" or gatekeeping or whatever other hand waving cop out bull**** you want. You don't have a problem with it because that was your entry point.

For the record, they do this type of **** to the Elder Scrolls too. Cyrodiil in Oblivion doesn't resemble how it's described in Morrowind.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

They could have a made Fallout game that appealed to wider audience while actually giving a **** about the IP in the process but they chose to take the lazy way out. Even if you remove the my criticism about the lore and the setting, how the game handles game logic, variables, and combat is objectively poorly implemented and 90% of the game is shooting stuff with ****ty shooting. You can call it "weirdo behavior" or gatekeeping or whatever other hand waving cop out bull**** you want. You don't have a problem with it because that was your entry point.

For the record, they do this type of **** to the Elder Scrolls too. Cyrodiil in Oblivion doesn't resemble how it's described in Morrowind.

Man you're worked up about this lol

The shooting was fine in Fallout 4, sure it was rough in 3. Some of the funniest and most memorable moments I had in Skyrim were when the wacky stuff that occurs in the big Bethesda games happened.

They DID care about the IP, so much so that it has sold astronomically more games in 3 and 4 than 1 and 2, the Pip-Boy is now iconic, the imagery is instantly recognizable, and we're going to watch a critically acclaimed show based on the very things you hate about it. Must suck to be so miserable about this.

I also don't care enough to get mad that a city changed between games. Thousands of years take place between TES games so I chalk it up to that.

Say what you want about Bethesda, but they killed it with Doom and Doom Eternal, plus they made Skyrim, I can live with them.