Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

[Tony Stark]

How so? That is all character, that is all development. They didn't have Zod philosophy just to do it, as bad as Goyer can be, there was a point to it.

Character development isn't simply character growth. It isn't just Thor going from a brat to a hero, it is not just the arc. It is the presentation of the character through their actions, dialogue, etc.

You're totally right, I kept saying Malekith needed to scream more!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Stop explaining basic screenwriting 101!!!!!

Orders from Global mod. I will stop immediately.

 

[TeeKay]

Did Jor-El try to wipe out the Kryptonians? No, he tried to preserve them. The Kryptonians doomed themselves, which is a major part of the Superman mythos. That Zod, Jor-El and Kal-El are all of the same blood is inherently important in this comparison with Malekith. It isn't like Odin and Malekith are brothers in arms, trying to save their people. They have different people whose very existence causes the other discomfort to say the least.

Malekith, as presented in the film, seems to have no love for his people, no will to protect them. What he seems to desire is to rule, to return the universe to a time where his people could simply rule. Nothing else. That is where it ends.

The heck you talking about? He watched his own race get almost entirely wiped out right infront of his eyes. One of the reasons he attacked Asgard and killed Frigga was for revenge. You think Frigga's death was for nothing? Not only that, him wanting to rebuild his world is also for him and his people could live and rule like they did before. To simply say such a thing means you were not paying attention so I dunno how you can sit there and say Malekith didn't care about his people. I have watched this movie like 5 times and it wasn't that hard to figure out. How does this separate him from Zod who was going to do more or less the same thing in MOS? Both want to rebuild their worlds so that their races could survive and prosper. You know, going back to the way things were before.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're totally right, I kept saying Malekith needed to scream more!

It would have been some kinda of emotion at least.

 

[tay1]

How so? That is all character, that is all development. They didn't have Zod philosophy just to do it, as bad as Goyer can be, there was a point to it.

Character development isn't simply character growth. It isn't just Thor going from a brat to a hero, it is not just the arc. It is the presentation of the character through their actions, dialogue, etc.

Ok great. I still fail to see what differentiates the two? They had the same goals, just different situations. We clearly knew why they were doing what they were doing. I just fail to see what makes Zod more interesting,

And what philosophy did Zod have?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The heck you talking about? He watched his own race get almost entirely wiped out right infront of his eyes. One of the reasons he attacked Asgard and killed Frigga was for revenge. Not only that, him wanting to rebuild his world is also for him and his people could live and rule like they did before. I dunno how you can sit there and say Malekith didn't care about his people. I have watched this movie like 5 times and it wasn't that hard to figure out. How does this separate him from Zod who was going to do more or less the same thing in MOS? Both want to rebuild their worlds so that their races could survive and prosper. You know, going back to the way things were before.

And he expressed this how? This care for his people? They never show the prologue effecting him in the least. There is no indication that they went to Asgard for anything other then the Aether. He seemed to be simply looking for the status quo that would allow his people and thus him to exist imo.

On how it separates them, read the top of the post.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Like I said earlier, this movie would have been better if, maliketh had gotten more character development as well as characters like Stiff, The Warriors Three, Hemidall and even Odin. Marvel is going to far with th comedy aspects in the movies now. Clearly there was no reason at all to give Darcy, Intern Ian, and Selvig as much screen time as they did. What's worse is that most of the humor was flat out unfunny.

 

[tay1]

And he expressed this how? This care for his people? They never show the prologue effecting him in the least. There is no indication that they went to Asgard for anything other then the Aether. He seemed to be simply looking for the status quo that would allow his people and thus him to exist imo.

On how it separates them, read the top of the post.

He didn't care for his people! That's what makes him a menace. I don't see why that's so important.

 

[tay1]

Like I said earlier, this movie would have been better if, maliketh had gotten more character development as well as characters like Stiff, The Warriors Three, Hemidall and even Odin. Marvel is going to far with th comedy aspects in the movies now. Clearly there was no reason at all to give Darcy, Intern Ian, and Selvig as much screen time as they did. What's worse is that most of the humor was flat out unfunny.

It's Sif man, you said Stiff twice.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

It's Sif man, you said Stiff twice.

iphone auto correct.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ok great. I still fail to see what differentiates the two? They had the same goals, just different situations. We clearly knew why they were doing what they were doing. I just fail to see what makes Zod more interesting,

And what philosophy did Zod have?

They are two different characters. Why one does something is very important, as are the details. Zod represents the downfall of the Kryptonians, he is the microcosm.That is why he is so interesting to me. I don't think the execution was perfect, but I found it quite compelling. But I also like Malekith, I just wish there was more meat to his character and more screen time in general. I also wish his attempt to end the universe wouldn't have been reduced to a sideshow in the finale.

And Zod words on his nature, his job and how that collides with Jor-El are the very arena for the philosophical debate. Remember, both men are trying to preserve Krypton. The council is trying to preserve Krypton. And yet they are incapable of agreeing how to do it because they programmed themselves to not be able to agree.

It's Sif man, you said Stiff twice.

A bit too much truth in that.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I do an overnite shift and get out of work at 7am here in NYC. On a whim I decided to see TDW at a 9:30am showing, figuring it would be be pretty spare, audience wise and I'd get my ticket quick, no lines and all. I was right, got my ticket and sat down. I had been truly looking forward to this. I really loved the first film, the cast and now with A1 money backing up MARVEL I figured this film would have an impressive scope and visuals and it would further the story we had been given in the first Thor film. There were, to my mind, over blown complaints of Thor1's "thin" romance and lack of interesting material when it goes back to Earth each time. I truly loved the first film, and that was apparent to me when I finished watching it the first time because I immediately wanted to see it again. Keeping all of this in mind. Here is what I thought when I came out of the theatre at 11:30am this morning. I am tagging it all for those who have not seen it yet.

Spoiler

I am crushed with disappointment. I went in hoping for a film with far more scope, and more depth added to what we saw from the first film. I thought that even if that doesn't pan out I would at the least enjoy it on the level of a film with grand, and exciting action sequences, but I can't even say that. The films main villain is very, very thin. Chris Eccleston is a fine actor, as anyone who is familiar with his work can tell you. But whatever meat this part had seems to have been left either in the editing bay or during the script writing phase or both. It would seem I am no alone in this complaint. There are little moments that speak to something more but what they mean in the wider context of the film is lost on me. I'm speaking of the scenes where Mal "curses" Algrim. The moment comes off as deeper in meaning than just the creation of the film's henchman character from Eccleston's demeanor. Again though, it feels like something was cut. Seeing the finished film, I finally do believe in the rumors of tension between director Alan Taylor and Marvel studios. All aspects of the film needed more time. A good 25-30min. of additional material would have done wonders, especially for our villain. And as a former comic book reader I have to say that the film never even touches on the idea of Surtur or Ragnarok in the least.

As for the other big complaint about the movie I have read, that the comedic parts undermine it, I actually totally disagree. Then again, I have not had any problem with the humor in any of the Marvel films. None at all. I think what we have here is stuff that works. The lines get laughs and the site gags and slapstick work for me. Even little things like Thor putting Mjolnir on a coat hook made me smile. No, it's not that the humor somehow drains the drama in this film. It's that the drama is just not that interesting or grabs your attention in the film. Up until Loki's liberation from the dungeon I was fairly unengaged. And indeed, Loki makes everything better when he is on screen, especially when interacting with Thor. That's a highlight of the film but I think it's a misstep in the script. Sure Loki is a villain, and a developed character after 2 previous outings, but, ya know, I came to see Thor. Hemmsworth is fine with the script as it is, but what it is, is not particularly attention grabbing. There's a lot of "just cause" in the film that needed time to either be explained or at the least fleshed out. The Nine Realms are in chaos, blamed on Loki's actions. Why? Just cause. We are never told why these marauders are out marauding, and how that ties back into the first film or A1. Is it because the Jotun kingdom is in ruins? Is there unrest prompted by Thanos? Nope. Just cause. And more is the pity. Getting a chance to see, really see, the other Nine Realms was what I thought we'd get. Nope. Seeing the struggle of Thor to fight to restore a ruptured cosmic order would have been awesome, especially in the context of the politics and cultures of these fantasy realms. It's why I thought they went to a director from GOT. But that's all practically taken care of before the film starts. Such a wasted opportunity.

There were some good moments in the film. As I said, Tom and Chris still have great chemistry even if the scenes never quite go for the dramatic jugular. And the effects were... adequate. I think the action was very underwhelming, but competent. If anything what hurts the action is that the story framing it is kind of dramatically inert. Even with the death of Thor's mother, I did not feel anything, except frustration that the chance to explore Frigga's relationship with her two sons was so flippantly tossed aside by the script.

When I left THOR1 I could not wait to see it again. Quite frankly, outside of the some of the Loki scenes in this film, I don't care if I ever see this film again, though I may have to just to be reminded of it's plot because I am not sure any of this is going to stick with me.

There you have it. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[tay1]

They are two different characters. Why one does something is very important, as are the details. Zod represents the downfall of the Kryptonians, he is the microcosm.That is why he is so interesting to me. I don't think the execution was perfect, but I found it quite compelling. But I also like Malekith, I just wish there was more meat to his character and more screen time in genre. I also wish his attempt to end the universe wouldn't have been reduced to a sideshow in the finale.

And Zod words on his nature, his job and how that collides with Jor-El are the very arena for the philosophical debate. Remember, both men are trying to preserve Krypton. The council is trying to preserve Krypton. And yet they are incapable of agreeing how to do it because they programmed themselves to not be able to agree.

I mean I wanted to see more of Malekith too, but I liked Faora more than I did Zod. Zod may have tried to justify his manical actions, but they're still insane. Faora just didn't give a ****, but I liked her more.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean I wanted to see more of Malekith too, but I liked Faora more than I did Zod. Zod may have tried to justify his manical actions, but they're still insane. Faora just didn't give a ****, but I liked her more.

Faora is just like Zod. The difference is she follows Zod. She isn't responsible for giving orders, she takes them. Simple as that. Sh is not different from Kurse in that regard. In fact, they are a far better comparison. Both follow their leaders blindly. There is a zealot quality to each.

Zod isn't really trying to justify his actions. He is simply stating the truth. He is what he is, and he can do nothing about it. Same with Faora, Jor-El, Lara and every Kryptonian born from the codex. That is what sets Kal-El apart.

 

[TeeKay]

And he expressed this how? This care for his people? They never show the prologue effecting him in the least. There is no indication that they went to Asgard for anything other then the Aether. He seemed to be simply looking for the status quo that would allow his people and thus him to exist imo.

On how it separates them, read the top of the post.

What were you expecting him to do? Scream on top of his lungs 'NOOO'? Actions speak louder than words. Yeah he attacked Asgard looking for the Aether also but there's a specific reason he targeted his ship to crash directly into the throne room. He even throws one of those vortex grenades at the thrones, very subtle. Then he goes directly to the room Frigga was. You thought her death was for nothing? Didn't you see that smirk Malekith had wen he said 'I believe you' before Kurse stabs her? Malekih doesn't have to come out and say "haha I'm gonna avenge my people" he did it differently by attacking Asgard and killing their queen in the process. This wasn't about who's the better or more fleshed out villain like you're making it out to be, it's about Zod and Malekith having the same goal "Destroy and rebuild." They just had different ways going about it. Nonetheless, I'm not discussing this anymore, you totally missed the point.

Moving on, did anyone else think Malekith's death was violent?

 

[tay1]

I don't think it was violent. I thought it was stupid to kill him. However, they can unkill him easily.

 

[TeeKay]

I don't think it was violent. I thought it was stupid to kill him. However, they can unkill him easily.

He's an elf who uses dark magic after all. That scene before his death were he was using the full power of the Aether and Thor told him he was surrendering, he looked quite menacing when he turned his face around.

 

[tay1]

He's an elf who uses dark magic after all. That scene before his death were he was using the full power of the Aether and Thor told him he was surrendering, he looked quite menacing when he turned his face around.

Yeah. I doubt they'd be using him again anytime soon though. I just have a problem when villains die all the time.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I seem to notice a lot of referring back to MOS here in this thread? Let me guess... Teekay kept pushing comparisons? Am I close?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What were you expecting him to do? Scream on top of his lungs 'NOOO'? Actions speak louder than words. Yeah he attacked Asgard looking for the Aether also but there's a specific reason he targeted his ship to crash directly into the throne room. He even throws one of those vortex grenades at the thrones, very subtle. Then he goes directly to the room Frigga was. You thought her death was for nothing? Didn't you see that smirk Malekith had wen he said 'I believe you' before Kurse stabs her? Malekih doesn't have to come out and say "haha I'm gonna avenge my people" he did it differently by attacking Asgard and killing their queen in the process. This wasn't about who's the better or more fleshed out villain like you're making it out to be, it's about Zod and Malekith having the same goal "Destroy and rebuild." They just had different ways going about it. Nonetheless, I'm not discussing this anymore, you totally missed the point.

I miss nothing. The very nature of the characters, what motivates them and why they do what they do is essential to their goals.

You know why he goes after Frigga? Because the Aether is with her. That is why he goes there. That is why Malekith leads the attack. If the Aether was with Odin, he would have went after Odin. Malekith didn't even know Loki was their son. That is how "personal" it was getting. How much he "knew" and how focused he was on revenge.

And the throne scene was subtle? Lets not get anything wrong, he wants to do away with the Asgardians. Their very existence means the Dark Elves can't rule.

But the most compelling moment for Malekith was his moment with Algrim as he examizes the soil of their home planet. But that was really all we got.

Moving on, did anyone else think Malekith's death was violent?

The ship falling was a bit much, but the "surgery" was amazingly brutal. Loved it.

He's an elf who uses dark magic after all. That scene before his death were he was using the full power of the Aether and Thor told him he was surrendering, he looked quite menacing when he turned his face around.

Does he use magic? I don't think he does. Only the Aether gives him "powers" I think.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah. I doubt they'd be using him again anytime soon though. I just have a problem when villains die all the time.

If they had kept things closer to the comics Mal would be the stepping stone to a far more powerful villain. As it is he's just kind of... there.

 

[tay1]

If they had kept things closer to the comics Mal would be the stepping stone to a far more powerful villain. As it is he's just kind of... there.

Surtur?

 

[Repulsor Blast]

edit

 

[TeeKay]

I miss nothing. The very nature of the characters, what motivates them and why they do what they do is essential to their goals.

You know why he goes after Frigga? Because the Aether is with her. That is why he goes there. That is why Malekith leads the attack. If the Aether was with Odin, he would have went after Odin. Malekith didn't even know Loki was their son. That is how "personal" it was getting. How much he "knew" and how focused he was on revenge.

And the throne scene was subtle? Lets not get anything wrong, he wants to do away with the Asgardians. Their very existence means the Dark Elves can't rule.

But the most compelling moment for Malekith was his moment with Algrim as he examizes the soil of their home planet. But that was really all we got.

Then if you missed nothing then you should know that we werent comparing the two characters like you were doing .I don't care what motivates them, because at the end of the day they set out to do the same thing, destroy and then rebuild. They just had different ways of going about it like I've said before.

The ship falling was a bit much, but the "surgery" was amazingly brutal. Loved it.


Does he use magic? I don't think he does. Only the Aether gives him "powers" I think.

Malekith uses dark magic. How do you think he was able to levitate Jane and consume the Aether within his body? I don't think they explained in the movie that he uses dark magic but yeah, he does. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

 

[TeeKay]

I seem to notice a lot of referring back to MOS here in this thread? Let me guess... Teekay kept pushing comparisons? Am I close?

I simply stated that Zod's and Malekith's goals are the same. It was Darth and others who began to compare the two characters and who's the more developed and fleshed out one. I just simply made an observation. That is all.