Fast and Furious: The Hearings...

[Kelly]

I'm not sure that there is a thread on this or not, didn't see one.

I'm listening to some of the hearing, and it is almost comical...

Eric Holder is willing to compromise on what documents he will and will not hand over.....

WHAT? um, no......they are asking for all, they should get all, and then compromise on how those documents are used....

This is getting ridiculous...

IMO: if you have nothing to hide, hand them all over....and discuss how these documents can be used as far as security, etc. This has been going on now for over a year, and getting stupid....that poor family needs answers.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

This has to be up there with the Iran-Contra affair in terms of cover-up by a government agency. The DOJ seems so unwilling to release documents that make them look bad by letting hundreds, if not thousands, of guns get into the hands of drug cartels and criminals. Right now, it sort of looks like they may bring contempt of court charges against Holder for stonewalling on releasing documents.

 

[Kelly]

Well, saying that they are cooperating because they have released 7,000 of 80,000 documents is totally ridiculous....

 

[Handsome Rob]

I'm not sure that there is a thread on this or not, didn't see one.

I'm listening to some of the hearing, and it is almost comical...

Eric Holder is willing to compromise on what documents he will and will not hand over.....

WHAT? um, no......they are asking for all, they should get all, and then compromise on how those documents are used....

This is getting ridiculous...

IMO: if you have nothing to hide, hand them all over....and discuss how these documents can be used as far as security, etc. This has been going on now for over a year, and getting stupid....that poor family needs answers.

Truth. The Executive Branch is co-equal to the Legislative and Judicial Branches. It is not in any way "above" them. I get the feeling the President believes otherwise . . .

Holder needs to resign or be held in contempt.

 

[Kelly]

Truth. The Executive Branch is co-equal to the Legislative and Judicial Branches. It is not in any way "above" them. I get the feeling the President believes otherwise . . .

Holder needs to resign or be held in contempt.

I'm amazed at the silence of the Dems on this.....where are his supporters? It really looks like they are hoping he resigns, rather than Obama ask him to step down....

The silence from the left is deafening....

 

[Paradoxium]

Double whammy. Obama's buddy and black. He could commit atrocities and be complicit in mass murders, but Mitt Romney picking his nose would get more press time.

 

[Kelly]

Well, he is certainly getting the conversation OFF the economy.....that's a plus for Obama.

 

[Kelly]

Well, looks like the fireworks are going to get good this next week...

 

[Handsome Rob]

Well, looks like the fireworks are going to get good this next week...

Good. Someone needs to hold this overextended and arrogant administration to account. This country needs to see the Executive Branch put in its place, and it's several years (and Presidencies) overdue.

Assuming they have the guts to act, of course . . .

I'd love to see them also drop the hammer on the "leaks" out of the White House which seem to only benefit the image of the President. But that's just coincidence, right?

 

[Kelly]

Wow, stand off time....

Eric Holder asked President to invoke "Executive Privilege" and he signed off last night....
Committee about to hold Holder in contempt....

BTW, before people start arguing over who has used executive privilege...
Bush used it 6 times...
Clinton used it 14 times....
Sooooo, everybody uses it, moving on...

 

[Kelly]

This is going to be interesting though, because Eric Holder's position is a cabinet position, therefore it is brought about by confirmation of Congress....which means he is not under "executive privilege" rights....so does this mean that there WERE conversations between Holder and the President, and therefore "executive privilege" can be sought....

Very interesting stuff, but probably only to geeks like myself....lol

 

[Webfoot Hero]

This is going to be interesting though, because Eric Holder's position is a cabinet position, therefore it is brought about by confirmation of Congress....which means he is not under "executive privilege" rights....so does this mean that there WERE conversations between Holder and the President, and therefore "executive privilege" can be sought....

Very interesting stuff, but probably only to geeks like myself....lol

This makes it look like the whole F&F program went up to Obama, not just within the DOJ. But I wouldn't be surprised if Holder only mentioned it in passing to Obama a couple times and that's where the EP is getting used. While this case seems to be a partisan witchhunt, I still think someone needs to answer for allowing guns to be given to criminals that were in turn used to kill a US federal employee.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Eric Holder has been held in contempt of Congress in a 23-17 vote.

 

[Kelly]

This makes it look like the whole F&F program went up to Obama, not just within the DOJ. But I wouldn't be surprised if Holder only mentioned it in passing to Obama a couple times and that's where the EP is getting used. While this case seems to be a partisan witchhunt, I still think someone needs to answer for allowing guns to be given to criminals that were in turn used to kill a US federal employee.

They can actually use executive privilege if were an aide in Obama's office...which very well might have been what happened...but that is going to be tough to push.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

They can actually use executive privilege if were an aide in Obama's office...which very well might have been what happened...but that is going to be tough to push.

If what some are saying is true, Obama told the media that he hadn't heard about the F&F program until it was brought out by a whistleblower within the ATF and then investigated by Issa and Grassley. That would mean he had no previous briefings on it and possibly no connection to the program to get any type of executive privilege over any documents related to it. Obama claiming EP now seems more like a retroactive way of protecting Holder and the DOJ.

 

[Kelly]

If what some are saying is true, Obama told the media that he hadn't heard about the F&F program until it was brought out by a whistleblower within the ATF and then investigated by Issa and Grassley. That would mean he had no previous briefings on it and possibly no connection to the program to get any type of executive privilege over any documents related to it. Obama claiming EP now seems more like a retroactive way of protecting Holder and the DOJ.

If that is the case, then it has to be an Aid in his office....because without that, I don't think Executive Privilege can be given.

 

[childeroland]

What are the consequences for Holder, of Congress finding him in contempt? What does it mean?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

What are the consequences for Holder, of Congress finding him in contempt? What does it mean?

There don't really seem to be many consequences. The House does a floor vote if Holder refuses to hand over the documents. If the vote passes, it's then passed on to the US Attorney for DC, who is an employee of the DOJ. If he refuses to act on the House floor vote, the House would then be free to authorize the Committee to file its own civil complaint in United States District Court, with the assistance of Special Counsel which would represent Congress in the matter. It could eventually be resolved between the executive and legislative branch, but with how much those two don't get along right now, it's likely to end up in court, where they'll decide if the EP is warranted and whether the documents need to be released.

 

[Paradoxium]

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Saw that video too. Makes him look like a hypocrite.

 

[childeroland]

There don't really seem to be many consequences. The House does a floor vote if Holder refuses to hand over the documents. If the vote passes, it's then passed on to the US Attorney for DC, who is an employee of the DOJ. If he refuses to act on the House floor vote, the House would then be free to authorize the Committee to file its own civil complaint in United States District Court, with the assistance of Special Counsel which would represent Congress in the matter. It could eventually be resolved between the executive and legislative branch, but with how much those two don't get along right now, it's likely to end up in court, where they'll decide if the EP is warranted and whether the documents need to be released.

Does the contempt citation help the House in court somehow? Otherwise, what's the point of it?

 

[Kelly]

What are the consequences for Holder, of Congress finding him in contempt? What does it mean?

It means that the administration has gained more time to not give documents to the committee....and therefore, no more information will be found out until this goes through the courts and then in the end, we still won't have any more information.

Therefore....it does nothing, it is a waste of time.

 

[SV Fan]

What are the consequences for Holder, of Congress finding him in contempt? What does it mean?

Basically it means we will be wasting alot of time and money to do absolutely nothing while their is more pressing issues for the country.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Does the contempt citation help the House in court somehow? Otherwise, what's the point of it?

It starts the process moving in possibly getting the documents released so Congress knows the entire scope of F&F and it could also force some officials to resign.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm not going to comment on the actual FAF policy which was an awful, stupid idea with tragic consequences.

I'll just throw out that given Obama has invoked executive privilege, the holding Holder in contempt feels like a political sideshow kangaroo court mildly reminiscent of the 1990s and Clinton witch hunts.

DC politics....sigh.

That's all I'll add to this conversation.