F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 21

[OcStat]

There was at least one article that came out months and months ago that claimed some activity between Stein and Russia, I didn't see anything else come up about it but it was enough for her to post a video disputing the claim.

This is some tangled-ass web here.

 

[Mike5575]

So... Please point to the behavior or policy by President Obama that warrants him being tagged with the responsibility for increased racial tension then. Is this a reasonable accusation? If so, please produce the examples and strong evidence that bolsters the argument it is so?

Would you mind providing some actual sources for this statement as Krypton has asked you to do twice now? The poll at the top of the page is simply public opinion on race relations. Funny enough, the "generally bad" sentiment also happens to start around the same time several people of color were killed by police as is indicated by the "death of Michael Brown" on the poll.

So, again, what specific policies, statements, etc that were enacted by Obama caused this supposed racial divide widening in your eyes?

Sorry for the late reply, but I always use my phone when replying on this site, and long political arguments just aren't good for that. What's interesting is that many people here assume that I am implying that race relations worsened after Obama was elected. That is not what the pew research polls(which I posted here) actually suggest. After his election, there was optimism that race relations would improve, and they did, for a while. But, after a string of black shootings(some justified, some not), Obama started preaching about social justice, police brutality, and social justice. This helped polarize the nation. After all, if someone is a perceived victim of white privilege, then why would that person even want a dialogue with the other side?

The federalist wrote a good piece on this:

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/13/how-obama-left-us-more-racially-divided-than-ever/

A small sampling of the ways he has done this are: accusing whites of “white privilege,” which means having an unfair advantage due to being white, an advantage built upon oppressing minorities; accusing the police and justice system at large of racism; blaming pay differences between men and women on discrimination; and casting Islamic radicalism as a legitimate response to discrimination (ostensibly by white Christians).


This strategy has had two effects: 1) It’s caused the alleged victims of the perceived discrimination to become more militant, hostile, and only willing to make demands and not willing to engage in dialogue due to increasing their sense of victimhood, and 2) It’s caused the alleged perpetrators of the perceived discrimination to feel unfairly blamed for problems that are not their fault, thus less willing to engage in dialogue with people who will do nothing but accuse them of wrongdoing.

A complete timeline of race relations under Obama:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/12230/complete-timeline-race-relations-under-obama-harry-khachatrian#

Also, for those who don't like "right wing echo chambers":

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-media-and-obama-made-ferguson-even-worse

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Thanks for the response Mike, I'll read those links when I get home after work before I chime in a reply.

 

[redhawk23]

That's true. So, deporting those who've overstayed their Visa is just fine, right? They've overstayed.

Even if you want to focus in on that element rather than the Mexican-border crossers (which I get, the Visa overstayers are the majority), it's still fine with deporting them if they've broached the stay agreement.

Are we going to start with the First Lady?

 

[redhawk23]

Probably because AR-15s are the best civillian rifle design on the market. Easy to shoot, easy to operate, easy to clean, very little recoil etc. They're the logical choice for hunting or in this tragic case mass murder. But AR-15s dont exist on some pedestal in the rarefied atmosphere above all other civilian weapons. Get rid of them and other modern semi auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols will effectively fill the vacuum. I dont believe it'd so much as put a dent in the number of mass shootings or deaths. Hell it'd probably increase gun deaths at first due to a knee jerk reactions from particularly aggressive second amendment nuts.

Not that we can actually get rid of them. More than 6 million are in America. Possibly upwards of 10 million. We don't have a snowball's chance in hell of confiscating all of those or even a significant fraction of them.

And then there are all the variations based on AR designs but not actually AR-15s.

And on top of that we have the gun manufactures. The minute the AR-15 is outlawed they will pour a ton of money into fighting it and beginning R&D to develop the next modern rifle design that skirts all new laws. They do it all the time. Mossberg recently released the Shockwave which is a pistol grip short shotgun.



If its a competition between gun manufacturers and Congress making new laws...gun manufactures are going to win. They will find every loophole and trick they can and they will exploit it.

You say this as if the rest of the industrialized world hasn't seen the benefits of weapons bans.

 

[Lighthouse]

You say this as if the rest of the industrialized world hasn't seen the benefits of weapons bans.

They got to it in time. We've created such a toxic gun culture with such an overabundance of weapons, I think the damage is so deep I don't know how to reverse it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They got to it in time. We've created such a toxic gun culture with such an overabundance of weapons, I think the damage is so deep I don't know how to reverse it.

But this gives into the idea that you don't do anything. Change takes time, but you need to start. Limiting access to certain weapons, cutting off access to those that should not be allowed near a gun and better mental health work in general would all help. But if you don't start, how can you fix anything?

 

[LTuser]

So, want to prove that? That they're going after those who haven't committed other crimes?

I'm not even asserting they're not. I'd just like to see something credible pointing to that. The "goose-steppers rounding up the innocent" thing really seems like a political ploy from the other side. If it's happening, surely there's some credible data pointing to it.

And since being here illegally, and working illegally are already crimes, why should we 'wait till they commit a different type of crime' to deport them?

You realize that the vast majority of "illegals" are people that have overstayed their visa so they did come her "legally", right?

Which is something i've never understood.. I've known people who lived in foreign countries, and when their visas come close to being up, they were contacted by the locals, to ensure they were leaving... SO WHY CAN'T we do that here?


Now to get off the whole gun/trump issue.. What's everyone's thoughts on this??

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/15/irs-pays-bonuses-tax-cheat-employees/

HOW IS IT if they willfully cheated on their taxes, they are even still employed, let alone not behind bars??

 

[Lighthouse]

But this gives into the idea that you don't do anything. Change takes time, but you need to start. Limiting access to certain weapons, cutting off access to those that should not be allowed near a gun and better mental health work in general would all help. But if you don't start, how can you fix anything?

I'm not saying don't do anything, but I think the only viable option is the one no one is going to approve, which is the government taking away guns from people. Yeah, this all sounds like sound ideas, but I doubt it'll make much of a dent.

 

[Sithborg]

I don't think you quite understand how rigid government pay is. It isn't like the private sector, where bonuses are discretionary.

That said, I don't take the Washington Times too seriously.

And back to Trump. I wonder how long Congress will ignore Trump/Tillerson's refusal to do new sanctions of Russia.

 

[Marvolo]

You say this as if the rest of the industrialized world hasn't seen the benefits of weapons bans.

The rest of the world didn't wait too long and don't have such a pervasive toxic gun culture that dates back and ties into the "legendary" stories of our founding. I really think foreigners dont fully understand how millions of Americans view guns. To them guns are tied up into their very liberty and freedom. Give me liberty or give me death mentality.

Also the rest of the world already has strict regulations so removing a particular weapon from the market doesn't leave people with a lot of options. In America removing the AR-15 leaves psychos with a lot of options. If they remove the AR-15 a person can go buy a Barrett . 50 cal rifle just to spite the government. For those that don't know that's a rifle that can shoot through steelplates and has an effective range exceeding 1000 meters. The bullet looks like this:

That rifle is entirely legal in America and requires no permit. I can drive ten minutes to a gun show this weekend and buy one no questions asked.

Or a psycho could buy a traditional old school rifle with a magazine. Or a semi auto shotgun. Or a semi auto 10mm pistol. Or semi auto AK-47. Or a glock 9mm with a 30 plus round mag. Or shot gun with a drum mag. And thats just a handful off the top of my head. See the absurd problem America has?

I'm not saying something shouldn't be done. A lot of stuff needs to be done. I just see people that seem to think getting rid of a single gun is gonna be some sort of big fix for America and it's not going to be.

 

[Sithborg]

And now some bank fraud charges have been added to Manafort's indictment.

And with Gates flipped, Manafort is @#$$#.

 

[Doug_Moore]

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/358025-thousands-attended-protest-organized-by-russians-on-facebook

Mueller's indictment just confirmed what was reported a few months ago. Putin used his KGB training to play both sides and paid off Facebook and Twitter in doing so.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/358025-thousands-attended-protest-organized-by-russians-on-facebook

Mueller's indictment just confirmed what was reported a few months ago. Putin used his KGB training to play both sides.

Your point?

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics (1997)

 

[redhawk23]

And since being here illegally, and working illegally are already crimes, why should we 'wait till they commit a different type of crime' to deport them?

Because we can decide that coming here, living hear and working here peacefully doesn't have to be a crime. We can literally just do that.

There's such a weird focus on THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG THEY MUST BE PUNISHED instead of just recognizing that people come here to work and better themselves and build communities just the exact same way millions of Irish came here in droves.

Looking at the reality on the ground, that these people don't serve a threat and are instead a vital part of our economy and communities we can write laws that reflect that.

 

[redhawk23]

The rest of the world didn't wait too long and don't have such a pervasive toxic gun culture that dates back and ties into the "legendary" stories of our founding. I really think foreigners dont fully understand how millions of Americans view guns. To them guns are tied up into their very liberty and freedom. Give me liberty or give me death mentality.

Also the rest of the world already has strict regulations so removing a particular weapon from the market doesn't leave people with a lot of options. In America removing the AR-15 leaves psychos with a lot of options. If they remove the AR-15 a person can go buy a Barrett . 50 cal rifle just to spite the government. For those that don't know that's a rifle that can shoot through steelplates and has an effective range exceeding 1000 meters. The bullet looks like this:

That rifle is entirely legal in America and requires no permit. I can drive ten minutes to a gun show this weekend and buy one no questions asked.

Or a psycho could buy a traditional old school rifle with a magazine. Or a semi auto shotgun. Or a semi auto 10mm pistol. Or semi auto AK-47. Or a glock 9mm with a 30 plus round mag. Or shot gun with a drum mag. And thats just a handful off the top of my head. See the absurd problem America has?

I'm not saying something shouldn't be done. A lot of stuff needs to be done. I just see people that seem to think getting rid of a single gun is gonna be some sort of big fix for America and it's not going to be.

Who said anything about single gun? Go straight up Australian on this sh**.

 

[redhawk23]

Saying "People with Mental Health Issues shouldn't have guns" is a plainly sensible statement.

The problem though is that becomes extremely complicated when we have gun ownership interpreted as being enshrined as a right in our constitution.

It becomes a matter that you are using a health status to restrict someone's rights which is a much more complicated legal argument to make and to enforce.

There's also the matter that people can acquire weapons and develop the mental issues either.

There's the further issue that trying to blame every act of violence on mental health is pretty damn specious and really people of sound mindcan just be awful, hateful murderous people as well.

 

[redhawk23]

The President met with some of the police officers from Parkland. Took a photo giving a thumbs up, is using it as his twitter banner. Classy.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

"America is unwell..."

https://imgur.com/gallery/8GiwG


I guess I occasionally thought that starting shortly after I got out of high school myself, but always pushed it to the back of my mind. I'm not one of those "the sky is falling and this is exactly like the end of Roman Republic" chickens without a head we all know. But that thought, the sentiment from the famous issue of GREEN ARROW/GREEN LANTERN where GA lays out that there's something wrong in the land, almost a sickness... It feels like that some days recently more than ever, and that's saying something because in all honesty the country is actually in material good shape and has been for a long time. Even the social indicators from just 30 years ago we all were so worried about are improving. Fewer children born to teens not yet out of high school. Lower crime. Yes, despite all the hysteria illegal immigration is down too. And yet there is a pulsing, free floating near madness across the country that explodes into our psych on a more and more regular basis. I wish I had the answer. I don't. And I'm not even sure it's something that can't be dealt with. There will be solutions and there can be greater unity, of that I am sure but I myself can't see them at this time.

 

[Morg]

The President met with some of the police officers from Parkland. Took a photo giving a thumbs up, is using it as his twitter banner. Classy.

also gave a thumbs up while at the hospital with the staff there:

Cheeto!

there's saying he only spent less then 20 minutes with the victims family

 

[Fading]

Haven't fully read the story yet, but saw that Mueller indicted 13 Russian Nationals, and 3 Russian entities for their interference in the election. There goes the narrative that Russia is a witch Hunt, and that Mueller is only looking into Trump's finances since he can't find anything on Russia.

Then again I think team Trump knows that. Second Popadopolus was indicted, Trump probably already had access to documents stating the entire Russian investigation started due to Popadopolus bragging about the Trump teams Russian connections to an Australian diplomat.

Everyday, everytime a new indictment pops up, the facade weakens. The narrative Trump spouts weakens. Especially the ones that confirm earlier reports from the "fake news" sites like the "failing NYT" (which actually saw an increase due to online subscribers).

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Bloomberg - Mueller Shows How Russians Sowed Discord With Dirty Tricks
Bloomberg - Mueller Still Investigating Possible Collusion, Source Says
Bloomberg - Mueller Deflates Trump's Claim That Russia Meddling Was a Hoax

 

[Teelie]

also gave a thumbs up while at the hospital with the staff there:

Cheeto!

there's saying he only spent less then 20 minutes with the victims family

In this case I think it's best for the families. The longer he spends with them the more likely he will say and/or do something offensive toward them.

 

[Sithborg]

Lil Rubio looks miserable. Not somber as he should be, but miserable.