F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

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Matt said:
Its not mutually exclusive though. Its not as if he played that card and can never play it again. He can say the impeachment process is a witch hunt once the 116th is seated. And even if he is wrong about Mueller, even if Mueller crosses every t and dots every i, Congress acting on it could still be corrupt if they made up their minds before even seeing the evidence.

To go back to my original analogy of a trial...imagine the FBI spends 2 years carrying out a massive RICO investigation of a huge crime boss. For simplicity's sake, let's call him Lex Luthor. The FBI carries out a flawless investigation. They build a perfect case. They get warrants. They follow process. Evidence goes through the chain of custody properly. There are no grounds to challenge the legitimacy of the investigation...it is perfect, the FBI has Luthor dead to rights.

But then at trial, during the voir dire (jury selection) process, the prosecutor asks each potential juror "do you think Mr. Luthor is guilty?" Each juror says yes. Prosecutor asks "would you vote to convict Mr. Luthor?" Each juror in the pool says yes. Prosecutor asks "is there anything at all that will change your mind?" Each juror says "no." Defense attorney stands up and asks to disqualify the entire pool, judge says no and seats 12 of them.

Suddenly, it doesn't matter how strong the evidence is or how thorough and by the book the FBI was while investigating Luthor. The trial has no legitimacy.

Now in that case, the conviction would be overturned on appeal, a new trial would be ordered, and a new, unbiased jury (and judge) would be seated to preside over it. Luthor would be convicted, the end.

You don't have that luxury with an impeachment proceeding. You get one shot at it with one group (the 116th Congress). Congress is judge, jury, and executioner. Even if Mueller's investigation is perfect and the evidence is undeniable...the process is tainted and there is no one else but Congress who can hear the evidence. We can't simply seat a new Congress to hear the Trump impeachment. No matter how good the evidence and investigation, the most crucial part of the proceeding will have no legitimacy. Starting to see the problem?
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Yeah, it's a big problem. I'd say a constitutional crisis is going to hit us really soon.
 
Aximili86 said:
These Comey memos are hilarious.

Basically contradict his whole book. There's even a "Trump urged us to continue looking into the Russia stuff", and an implication he (Comey) didn't think the FBI should announce that Trump's not a personal suspect in the Russia stuff, but that he had no problem if another department did.

Methinks the obstruction charge is pretty damn unlikely at this point.

It'll shift focus to something else, though. First collusion - nothing to back it. Then obstruction - ehhh, we're struggling. It'll shift to the Stormy payment now, which could be potentially a major problem for Orange *****e, but it's not taking him down.

Also, **** Comey's such a catty little weasel of a man. :woot: Awesome. It's funny seeing him taking heat from both the right and left at this point, even Savannah Guthrie was't buying his book ****.
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Dafuq are you talking about? This isn't even remotely close to the what the memos say. In fact, this is exactly the narrative Russian bots have been pushing on Reddit and social media.

Since you obviously ahven't bothered reading them, CLICK HERE to do so before spouting off about things you clearly do not understand.

Aximili86 said:
That's all pure opinion, though.

Fact is, these Comey notes don't paint a picture of Trump obstructing. They just don't, each side of the aisle - Fox and CNN alike - are in agreement on this.

What that means for the investigation overall, who knows? Could be nothing, could be everything. But the Comey notes he made at the time are pretty contradictory to what he's saying after-the-fact.

But again, you know this.
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Wrong again sport, again, READ the actual memos instead of folowing a narrative on any news outlet to form your opinion. Comey specifically states on several different occasions that Trump asked for his loyalty and was very concerned about Melania thinking these allegations are true. The memos also go into Trump insinuating in almost every interaction that he expects Comey to make this all go away because it has a "cloud" affecting his ability to be POTUS.

Aximili86 said:
Alrighty then, uh, "chief".

CNN & CBS & ABC disagree, as of the coverage today.
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A) No, they don't.

B) Read the actual memos (form your own opinion) instead of acting like news outlets are the end-all on this.
 
Trump said he never stayed in Russia (in the alleged 'Pee Tape' hotel) in the Comey memo.

His bodyguard Keith Schiller testified to Congress that he did last year and that was offered five women for his hotel room.

NBC News said:
That night, two sources said, Schiller said he discussed the conversation with Trump as Trump was walking back to his hotel room, and Schiller said the two men laughed about it as Trump went to bed alone. Schiller testified that he stood outside Trump’s hotel room for a time and then went to bed.

One source noted that Schiller testified he eventually left Trump’s hotel room door and could not say for sure what happened during the remainder of the night.
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https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblo...rump-repeatedly-lied-about-his-trip-to-moscow

The Associated Press said:
BREAKING: Comey memo: Trump said Vladimir Putin told him, 'We have some of the most beautiful hookers in the world'
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/987140049174220801

The Associated Press said:
The Democratic National Committee on Friday sued President Donald Trump’s campaign, Trump’s son, his son-in-law, the Russian Federation and Wikileaks, saying they conspired to help Trump win the 2016 presidential election by breaking into DNC computers and stealing tens of thousands of emails and documents.
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https://apnews.com/65be518886e94da1ad8df46cebf857d4
 
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I really wish the Dems hadn't sued. The investigation should be allowed to run uninterrupted. While the lawsuit doesn't really derail anything, it does put on an unnecessary sideshow. The investigation is already seen as politically motivated without this.
 
Hobgoblin said:
I really wish the Dems hadn't sued. The investigation should be allowed to run uninterrupted. While the lawsuit doesn't really derail anything, it does put on an unnecessary sideshow. The investigation is already seen as politically motivated without this.
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Yeah, it's times like these--I'm always reminded on why I became an independent voter.

Democrats are always so close... but their inability to time their actions at the appropriate time is so damn head-scratching-frustrating.
 
If the lawsuit goes through because they have standing, it opens up these accused to the discovery process and payment/settlement for damages.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...russia-wikileaks-over-2016-email-hack-n867801

WASHINGTON — Taking a page from its response to the Watergate break-in, the Democratic National Committee filed suit on Friday against President Donald Trump's campaign, the Russian government and WikiLeaks for allegedly engaging in a conspiracy to damage the Democratic Party during the 2016 presidential race.

The DNC is seeking recompense for what it says was millions of dollars in damages from Russia’s hacking of its internal emails, which were then published by WikiLeaks, with the encouragement of then-candidate Trump and his campaign.

The civil complaint, filed in federal district court in Manhattan on Friday, is unrelated to the criminal investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, as well as congressional investigations into Russian meddling.

But the DNC’s lawsuit could force the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks to reveal internal communications about the hack through the legal discovery process.

“During the 2016 presidential campaign, Russia launched an all-out assault on our democracy, and it found a willing and active partner in Donald Trump’s campaign," DNC Chair Tom Perez said in a statement. "This constituted an act of unprecedented treachery: the campaign of a nominee for president of the United States in league with a hostile foreign power to bolster its own chance to win the presidency."

Trump's campaign and the Republican National Committee did not immediately respond to the lawsuit.

But Trump himself has repeatedly denied that he or his campaign colluded with Russia in any way, and has even cast doubt that Russia was behind the hack, despite the consensus among the U.S. intelligence community.

The civil suit follows a playbook the DNC successfully deployed in 1972 after Republican operatives broke into the party's headquarters in the Watergate office complex. Allies of President Richard Nixon initially dismissed the $1 million suit as frivolous, but the president's re-election campaign later settled for $750,000 on the day Nixon left office, according to The Washington Post, which first reported Friday's lawsuit.
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Limonade said:
Yeah, it's times like these--I'm always reminded on why I became an independent voter.

Democrats are always so close... but their inability to time their actions at the appropriate time is so damn head-scratching-frustrating.
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Ya, this is just mind blowingly stupid. Only way this makes sense is if they have insider knowledge that the investigation is very close to concluding with charges being filed.

Otherwise, this is a classic Dem shooting themselves in the foot right as they get into the home stretch.
 
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At this very moment, Wolf Blitzer and his panel are discussing the consistency between Comey’s book and his memos and how it adds credibility, completely contrary to what Aximili has falsely claimed several times.

I feel like we even have to play fact check here, and I’d hope we could have a baseline standard of honest debate here even if “the real world” can’t half the time.
 
Trump impersonating his own spokesman is ancient news. Yawn.
 
Aximili86 said:
These Comey memos are hilarious.

Basically contradict his whole book. There's even a "Trump urged us to continue looking into the Russia stuff", and an implication he (Comey) didn't think the FBI should announce that Trump's not a personal suspect in the Russia stuff, but that he had no problem if another department did.

Methinks the obstruction charge is pretty damn unlikely at this point.

It'll shift focus to something else, though. First collusion - nothing to back it. Then obstruction - ehhh, we're struggling. It'll shift to the Stormy payment now, which could be potentially a major problem for Orange *****e, but it's not taking him down.

Also, **** Comey's such a catty little weasel of a man. :woot: Awesome. It's funny seeing him taking heat from both the right and left at this point, even Savannah Guthrie was't buying his book ****.
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Your read on the situation seems to be almost the exact opposite of the conclusion being drawn by pretty much everyone else.
 
Tempus Fugit said:
Your read on the situation seems to be almost the exact opposite of the conclusion being drawn by pretty much everyone else.
Click to expand...

I think by now its pretty clear hes a troll. By calling Trump funny names ("Orange *****e" et al),by casually insisting on "alternative facts" and by consistently using false equivalencies in order to seem like the "reasonable" one, he thinks hes being subtle.
 
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I gotta admit I’m stumped why North Korea is willing to halt their nuclear program now. It’s obviously good news but I honestly can’t believe it’s because Cheetoh called him rocket man. What sort of concessions did we Pompeo offer that we don’t know about?
 
samsnee said:
I gotta admit I’m stumped why North Korea is willing to halt their nuclear program now. It’s obviously good news but I honestly can’t believe it’s because Cheetoh called him rocket man. What sort of concessions did we Pompeo offer that we don’t know about?
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I hope someone, anyone can find a peaceful solution to the situation but... I doubt this administration has it in them.

For one... There is a reason there hasn't been this sort of face to face negation between leaders of both countries before. The American president meeting with Un (or his forebears) in a way legitimize the regime in N. Korea. On optics alone it's not good. To the N. Korean audience and frankly to the world it's looking like the most powerful country in the world is coming to this isolated nation on their terms. Second... I doubt this has anything to do with the diplomatic expertise (such as it is) of the Trump team and way more to do with pressure exerted by China. Even with that reality it would take a truly great diplomatic compromise of Herculean proportions to thread the needle and deliver something positive. Do we have faith that someone who is using Twitter to make policy is capable of that?

I would love to be wrong but my feeling is this will serve no one in the short or long term except Trump and Un's egos.
 
DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs said:
. Comey specifically states on several different occasions that Trump asked for his loyalty
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And that Comey had no problem giving it, and on one of the two occasions responded "you have it".

Way to ignore the context.

Trump may have asked - he did. Comey also proverbially bent a knee and gave it. He didn't give a **** about the loyalty question at the time.
 
Aximili86 said:
And that Comey had no problem giving it, and on one of the two occasions responded "you have it".

Way to ignore the context.

Trump may have asked - he did. Comey also proverbially bent a knee and gave it. He didn't give a **** about the loyalty question at the time.
Click to expand...

Someone is ignoring context (and a whole lot more too boot ) but it's not the rest of us.
 
KRYPTON INC. said:
I hope someone, anyone can find a peaceful solution to the situation but... I doubt this administration has it in them.

For one... There is a reason there hasn't been this sort of face to face negation between leaders of both countries before. The American president meeting with Un (or his forebears) in a way legitimize the regime in N. Korea. On optics alone it's not good. To the N. Korean audience and frankly to the world it's looking like the most powerful country in the world is coming to this isolated nation on their terms. Second... I doubt this has anything to do with the diplomatic expertise (such as it is) of the Trump team and way more to do with pressure exerted by China. Even with that reality it would take a truly great diplomatic compromise of Herculean proportions to thread the needle and deliver something positive. Do we have faith that someone who is using Twitter to make policy is capable of that?

I would love to be wrong but my feeling is this will serve no one in the short or long term except Trump and Un's egos.
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President Moon is on it. :cwink:

Koreans (also in the North) are conscious of not being completely free in their manoeuvres but seems to me NA gives them too little credit.
The North pushed as far as they could their brickmanship and they "won": they can now depict themselves as compromising, when IMO this was Kim's plan all along.
Kim's probably a lot more stable than his father, even though there's no way to measure what being brought up in that family does someone...

NK could never have hoped to keep going a lot more like they were and there were no prospects of improvements, so they pushed the accelerator on the very issue that brought them in that dead end in the first place: military R&D.
Go as far as possible, as fast as feasible.
It was a very big gamble but the only card they had left: come Trump or Clinton, I think this was planned anyway.
Lucky us the current US administration did not do anything crazy. Yet.

NK endgame was always reunification, cannot do that as a nuclear crater.
I don't want to be naive but maybe they just surrendered to the old ass reality that they will never get it on their full terms.
What they (the priviliged NK elite) picture as their future is the real issue now.

(Should ever war break out, do not even worry telling me how wrong I was, I probably wouldn't be able to read the forum...:o)

Can people imagine if come the next Nobels, Kim is awarded the Peace one and Trump is not?
That would spell the invasion of Norway...


PSA: Kim Jong-Un, the surname is Kim.
Not "Un". Call him whatever you like, but please not Un, it's unbearable :-)oldrazz:) to Koreans.
 
Aximili86 said:
And that Comey had no problem giving it, and on one of the two occasions responded "you have it".

Way to ignore the context.

Trump may have asked - he did. Comey also proverbially bent a knee and gave it. He didn't give a **** about the loyalty question at the time.
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Unlike you, I have read all 15 pages of the memo. Comey in no way "bent the knee" to him. He specifically stated he will give him "honesty", Trump then said he wanted "Honest loyalty" to which Comey replied that his answer to that may have been misconstrued by Trump but he did not want to push the issue with him.

He later mentions how important it is that the DOJ and FBI remain apolitical and Trump should be using the correct channels for these discussions/requests.

So no, Comey did nothing that you are implying. You are not only full of it, you're clearly letting other outlets base your opinion for you even though I have provided the links to the actual documents on 2 different posts.
 
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