"First Steps" Season 2: Episode 18 Discussion Thread

[Ratcrawler]

Consider this.

The sPider-Sense is what made Pete see an unthreatening enemy Brock hundreds of feet away in the first place. Not as a full on tingle as he recognizes it, but as a subconsious nudge. Brock would have banked on this, which is why he swiftly blurred across a rooftop while sPidey was on a boat facing Sandman.

 

[Syncos]

Only because I was met with such fierce opposition that this was not a flaw from you three guys

I didn't understand how he was able to keep up with Spidey. He has no super powers. Web shooters or not, you need super speed and agility to keep up with the wall crawler. He covers a few city blocks in a matter of seconds web swinging. No way Eddie could do that.

This is a flaw.

It's not a major flaw. Just a puzzling one. I didn't get why Peter's spidey sense wasn't reacting to Brock. Especially since he didn't have the symbiote. I mean they mad such a big issue of that in the comics with Norman following him.

This was not.

Again, aside from standing around on buildings just in eyeshot every once in awhile to mess with peters head, he wasn't doing anything malicious. He wasn't presenting Peter with any danger. And until the end, he didn't even get that close.

However, how he followed Pete across town to find the symbiote is a god awful flaw if you ask me.

 

[The Joker]

Oh come on, it wasn't a fierce opposition, it's one of the down sides of trying to communicate through use of Internet, you can't see beyond the words .

I meant fierce as in persistant, not angry. Nobody has gotten hostile or unfriendly. So there's been no mis-communication

However, you're quite right when you say such things should be mentioned in the show itself so audience know why its happening whatever is happening.

Well maybe it'll be explained in the next episode. Like Doc Ock appearing to have turned good, and being kidnapped by his own tentacles. All that was explained in the next episode.

First of all, being followed by Eddie didn't put him in any immediate danger.

No. But as I outlined above, immediate danger is not everything the spider sense reacts to. It reacts to all kinds of danger. Not just the immediate.

Eddie was buildings away

No he wasn't. Peter swung right past him at one point. Saw him down on the sidewalk another time etc. He was not miles away or even far away. He was close enough for Peter to identify him every time.

and had no malicious intent, other than to mess with Parker's head. This is why it's good to have limitations on the spider sense, so that it's not some all knowing force. If it -had- picked up Eddie, the argument could be made of -why-? He didn't do anything. There was no danger to alert Spidey of.

As I mentioned above, immediate danger is not the only thing the spider sense reacts to. Peter doesn't have to be about to be attacked for it to alert him of a dangerous presence. Like in that scan I posted above.

Brock is an enemy. Spidey's spider sense alerts him to the presence of ANY enemy. Whether they're going to attack him or not.

I still don't get your argument. Greg may have mentioned the way they have the spider-sense react in interviews. but that's not how the general public is supposed to know of it. In 18 episodes of the spider sense going off in pretty much every episode, it's only ever alerted him of immediate danger.

Exactly. I'm only going on what I've been shown. We've never had an instance like this where he was being followed or didn't react at all to the presence of an enemy.

Why should we know that he doesn't react to that kind of danger? It's never happened before in the cartoon. As a Spidey fan, I'm basing my judgements on what I know of the character.

If it had been written inconsistently, I could see you demanding to know the limitations of it. as it would then be up in the air.

I'm not complaining about any inconsistencey of the show. I think you'll note I never said anything of that nature. I'm talking about the adaption of the spider sense in this cartoon, and the lack of the basic functions of it.

It does so much more than just react to an on coming immediate threat. These writers are die hard fans of the Stan Lee comics. Was it unreasonable to assume that they had adapted this, too? No. And we were not offered any explanation of exactly how the spider sense works.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

The sense does not go off every time whether it's in the shows or films. It's always been that way.

 

[The Joker]

The sense does not go off every time whether it's in the shows or films. It's always been that way.

When did it not go off in TAS?

As for the movies, the only time it failed to go off was in Spider-Man 3, when Harry pounced on him. And there was NO reason for that to happen. Just one of many examples of the bad writing in that flick.

 

[Webhead2006]

well i watched the episode a few hrs ago on yt. Nice to see the yt guys got it up pretty quickly this week. Got to say pretty great episode. Good start up to the venom arc. Cant wait to see how the rest of the arc plays out. Nice to get intro of mark allen(raxton). Also sandman had great character developments and i thought it was very nice thing he did for the little girl and saving the folks on the tanker. I do wonder if we get a 3rd season if greg would have the guts to make a villain turn hero. As for brock loved the parinod bits on peter. Also good to see harry back and interesting to see him hitting up on gwenie. Cant wait to see how peter/gwen/harry's relationship will turn out by the end of the season.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Again, aside from standing around on buildings just in eyeshot every once in awhile to mess with peters head, he wasn't doing anything malicious. He wasn't presenting Peter with any danger. And until the end, he didn't even get that close.

Exactly!

 

[Jick]

When did it not go off in TAS?

As for the movies, the only time it failed to go off was in Spider-Man 3, when Harry pounced on him. And there was NO reason for that to happen. Just one of many examples of the bad writing in that flick.

...and when Ock tossed that scrap metal at Spidey when he was talking to MJ in the pier.
"I'm gonna get you outta here" *BLAM*

 

[The Joker]

...and when Ock tossed that scrap metal at Spidey when he was talking to MJ in the pier.
"I'm gonna get you outta here" *BLAM*

Ah but it didn't hit him, which is why it probably didn't go off. Or maybe it did and we didn't hear it. We didn't hear it go off in the bank either, but he turned and reacted to Ock throwing the vault door in his direction, even though he and May had their backs to him.

 

[Spiderine]

The sense does not go off every time whether it's in the shows or films. It's always been that way.

And I still don't see why it would have went off for Eddie. It's been established Peter has been looking for him since the beginning of the season. This is not some random stranger with a weapon hiding on his person like in the pic Joker scanned. It's Eddie with no sym and no weapon and no immediate intention to harm anyone. Why should his sense go off?

 

[The Joker]

And I still don't see why it would have went off for Eddie. It's been established Peter has been looking for him since the beginning of the season. This is not some random stranger with a weapon hiding on his person like in the pic Joker scanned. It's Eddie with no sym and no weapon and no immediate intention to harm anyone. Why should his sense go off?

There's that word immediate again. Did you read the scan? Heck do you read the comics? It doesn't just react to immediate threats. Like a guy carrying a gun doesn't make him an immediate threat.

Brock was there with malicious intent to mess with Peter and trick him into revealing where the symbiote is. The Spidey sense always reacts to an enemy's presence.

Do you want me to scan the scene where Peter's spidey sense went off outside Aunt May's home because he sensed Ock was inside, and Ock was doing nothing more than sitting down and having a cup of tea with May?

I mean seriously, guys. I don't know why some of you are hell bent on trying to deny this flaw when the comic books disprove what you're saying completely. This is how the spidey sense works in the comics and every other medium.

 

[Jick]

Ah but it didn't hit him, which is why it probably didn't go off.

Didn't you say that it doesn't need to hit him to go off?
I don't blame the scene at all. It added more emotion with that thing coming unexpected.

 

[The Joker]

Didn't you say that it doesn't need to hit him to go off?

No, I'm saying it didn't hit him which is probably why it didn't go off. Or maybe it did, and we didn't hear it. Maybe that's why it missed him.

It wasn't the first time in the movie where he reacted to hidden danger without us hearing the spidey sense go off. Some danger moments are so quick that you can't slow the moment down for the audience to hear that drawn out spidey sense sound.

Imagine slowing that part down just so we could hear the spidey sense sound. Wouldn't have been effective at all.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

After seeing how Mark's attitude is in this episode today (him being serious and all), I wonder how mean and agressive he'll act as Molten Man?

 

[aliensuit1495]

I liked this episode

only thing that didnt make sense is how sandman went under water and didnt turn into muck

8/10

 

[Jick]

No, I'm saying it didn't hit him which is probably why it didn't go off.

Yeah, but you said previously that it doesn't need to hit him to go off, it goes beyond that, here:

immediate danger is not everything the spider sense reacts to. It reacts to all kinds of danger. Not just the immediate.

here:

As I mentioned above, immediate danger is not the only thing the spider sense reacts to. Peter doesn't have to be about to be attacked for it to alert him of a dangerous presence.

and here:

It does so much more than just react to an on coming immediate threat.

So it should go off just by the fact that he was in immediate danger.

Imagine slowing that part down just so we could hear the spidey sense sound. Wouldn't have been effective at all.

Well, it's like I said. I thought it added more emotion to the scene, since the metal came all of a sudden. I don't think anyone was expecting that.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah, but you said previously that it doesn't need to hit him to go off, it goes beyond that, here:
here:
and here:
So it should go off just by the fact that he was in immediate danger.

Well, it's like I said. I thought it added more emotion to the scene, since the metal came all of a sudden. I don't think anyone was expecting that.

I'm not definitively saying it didn't go off. I'm saying maybe it did. Maybe it was already going off is what I'm saying. His Spidey sense most likely would been buzzing already because of Ock's presence. Or the reactor Ock just fired up. Or both.

You'll also note that later in the scene he didn't anticipate Ock hitting him on the head with that plank of wood just after he saved MJ from being sucked into the reactor. Why? Again, numerous dangers all around. Stuff was flying everywhere by that point because of the reactor going nuts.

Point is that he did react, not as quickly as he should have, but again there was more than one danger in the room.

With Eddie Brock in this cartoon, he was the only danger in the vicinity.

 

[The Joker]

Ok, I should try and steer this thread back on topic, as it's gone off track discussing the spidey sense

One thing I love about this show is how every episode sets up new plot elements. Like in this one:

- Liz's brother, Mark, is on the scene. Possible Molten Man villain.
- Harry is back and clearly got a thing for Gwen. All sorts can happen here.
- Sandman has discovered his good side, and how he can use his powers for good. And he enjoyed it. Many possibilites to explore with him here.

 

[Mistah K88]

I really enjoyed this episode, not as much as Shear Strength but Doc Ock is kinda hard to pass up. It is nice to see Hammerhead back...there was something about a loan to Master Planner? Maybe that had to do with his underwater lair?

Anyway, it is nice to see the human side of Sandman, he never was in it to really hurt anybody, heck he doesn't even care about Spiderman, he just wants to have his "big score". Now he had all of that characterization without being the true murderer of Uncle Ben...you hear that Raimi?!

Did I mention Eddie was awesome...and I don't even care much for Venom. The only really explainable appearance was him showing up when Sandman was fighting Spidey on the ship. The announcement was over the radio so of course he would know Spider-Man would show up to save the day.

Oh and Harry better not really be the Goblin...this show has been TOO good for that. It would be like putting Hobgoblin before Green Goblin...you know...like the 90's show.

 

[Ratcrawler]

I thought the "foursome" was cute in the sense that they're all suppose the fall in love with the other person's date.

 

[The Joker]

Oh and Harry better not really be the Goblin...this show has been TOO good for that. It would be like putting Hobgoblin before Green Goblin...you know...like the 90's show.

Norman will be the Goblin. These guys don't screw over the identities of the A-list villains. Doc Ock kept his sacred Master Planner identity. And there was many wild theories from fans about who the MP would turn out to be.

The Goblin will get the same respect.

 

[Exophagy]

Also since when is Sandman impervious to water?

That's what I didn't get. Why, at the start of the ep, was a small puddle from a running faucet enough to dissolve him and wash him down the drain, but at the end a whole ocean didn't perturb him?

 

[Mistah K88]

It may have something to do with those silicates that allows him to manipulate sand around him and increase his mass.

 

[Exophagy]

It couldn't be because he got that enhancement while he was in prison so if it did make him resistant to water then it wouldn't have affected him at the start of this ep, but it did.

 

[Duskbyday]

Water does the same thing Shocker's Gaunlets do. They don't defeat him (unlless constantly used on him till he's out cold.) they make him lose control of his powers. He just turns to sand for a few seconds. But yh, kinda wierd he can attack a boat and not turn slushy. That guy who Raxton was talking too looked like he was from the comics. Not sure who.

Peter: Do you think Flash got his nickname because he can run? P
Pricelesst:

That is wierd that Pete and Flash were best buddies. Sally Avril is such a bi- um... I mean..... horrible person.

I shouldn't be pessemistic but looks like Marko and Hirn are about to drift apart soon.