Fant4stic "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

[Stringer]

Devin Faraci's opinion is exactly how I feel about the whole thing. In the end though, I'm cool with it either way.

 

[Liam_H]

When I saw the article this morning I didn't even click on it. I like the actor and it would be cool for him to get the part, didn't occur to me on any level until now he's black and Human Torch is white.

 

[Frodo]

The only arguement I've taken remotely seriously against Jordan not getting the role is the one which basically says "Johnny Storm has always been portrayed this way, therefore , he should always be portrayed this way". Even that arguement isn't strong enough to deny him the role imo.

The most of the other arguements I've read around the web have been based on foundations and assumptions which range from laughable to ignorant. It does make me wonder how much of it is just stirring the pot for the sake of it, and how much of it are true felt beliefs.

 

[CB Fan]

At the end of the day this changes nothing about who Johnny is and his personality, some of you act like this will effect everything about who Johnny is and it won't. I personally didn't see a need for a race change but IF it happens I won't be crying foul or saying its done for political correctness. The actor and director have worked together before and I bet that MBJ came to mind when the director was reading the script, I actually admire him for going with his gut instead of saying 'nah I can't cast him cause hes black' that is IF he is even really considered for the part.

What you guys need to remember is that there hasn't been a CBM out that hasn't changed things or taken liberties on a property, not a single one. And it's funny most people were behind the movie when they found out who the director was now that he MAY want MBJ as Johnny many are saying the movie was destined to suck anyway...

At this point I hope the casting is true and I hope the film is amazing, cause if a race change to one of the leads is the biggest deviation this film has I would say they're off to a great re-start with the franchise.

 

[Kelly]

At the end of the day this changes nothing about who Johnny is and his personality, some of you act like this will effect everything about who Johnny is and it won't. I personally didn't see a need for a race change but IF it happens I won't be crying foul or saying its done for political correctness. The actor and director have worked together before and I bet that MBJ came to mind when the director was reading the script, I actually admire him for going with his gut instead of saying 'nah I can't cast him cause hes black' that is IF he is even really considered for the part.

What you guys need to remember is that there hasn't been a CBM out that hasn't changed things or taken liberties on a property, not a single one. And it's funny most people were behind the movie when they found out who the director was now that he MAY want MBJ as Johnny many are saying the movie was destined to suck anyway...

At this point I hope the casting is true and I hope the film is amazing, cause if a race change to one of the leads is the biggest deviation this film has I would say they're off to a great re-start with the franchise.

If this is the "only" change....ok, don't see that happening...

 

[Dark Raven]

So, with this rumour of Johnny being black, I'm wondering now if the Fantastic Four absolutely HAVE to have the same powers as in the comic.

Can Reed be the Human Torch, Johnny be the Invisible Man, Ben be Mr Fantastic and Sue be the Thing? Is there anything in the comic that says that Reed has to be the stretchy one? Or Sue has to be the invisible one? Does Reed even have to be the brains, or can Sue be? And can she be the leader of the Four as both the world's smartest woman and as the Thing?

 

[Kelly]

*little snicker*

 

[conan69]

At the end of the day this changes nothing about who Johnny is and his personality, some of you act like this will effect everything about who Johnny is and it won't.

It changes his relationship with his sister if he's adopted.... so yes, it changes his character.

This idea sucks, IMHO.

 

[SuperT]

It changes his relationship with his sister if he's adopted.... so yes, its changes his character.

This idea sucks, IMHO.

How does it change his relationship with his sister?!?! That statement is offensive and ignorant to adoptive children. Adoptive siblings don't treat each other any differently then biological siblings.

It certainly wouldn't effect their relationship in any way unless the script itself specifically does so.

 

[conan69]

^ Actually I had typed a response.. but why bother. I dont care feel like going back and forth about this.


BTW, I have both half and adopted siblings, and Im mixed Black/White (and have personally dealt with more racism growing up in the 70/80s in upstate NY than you can imagine).

I didnt have a problem with Heimdall, Kingpin or Fury (based on the Ultimate version), but this reeks of "stuntcasting". Enough already.

I dont want a bald Asian playing Bruce Wayne, and as much as I love the guy, dont want Peter Dinklage to play Superman.

I actually wouldnt care if Ben was black, but Johnny... no.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

^ Actually I had typed a response.. but why bother. I dont care feel like going back and forth about this.


BTW, I have both half and adopted siblings, and Im mixed Black/White (and have personally dealt with more racism growing up in the 70/80s in upstate NY than you can imagine).

I didnt have a problem with Heimdall, Kingpin or Fury (based on the Ultimate version), but this reeks of "stuntcasting". Enough already.

I dont want a bald Asian playing Bruce Wayne, and as much as I love the guy, dont want Peter Dinklage to play Superman.

I actually wouldnt care if Ben was black, but Johnny... no.

The only reason your saying it okay for Ben to be portrayed by a black actor is because he is gonna be in orange make up for good chunk of the movie.......

 

[jonathancrane]

This alleged decision can be justified by one element only: talent. I have not seen Chronicle, so I cannot attest to the talent; I found the Trank fanboys on campus to be really annoying, and hence that was what drove me away from the film. With that said, I would like to remind posters of a precedent: Hannibal. The program swapped the genders, race, and other characteristics of characters from the text, and it has been magnificent, and in some regards, superior to other adaptations of the text and its successors.

 

[Lencho01]

This whole thing's pretty interesting. I'd be shocked if two members ended up being Black.

 

[conan69]

The only reason your saying it okay for Ben to be portrayed by a black actor is because he is gonna be in orange make up for good chunk of the movie.......

Ok.

I guess you skipped over where I said I didnt have a problem with Heimdall, Kingpin or Nick Fury. Were they covered in orange makeup for the length of the films they appeared in?
Give me a *****ing break.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

When I saw the new article on the SHH homepage, I knew it was gonna start a flame war. To some fanboys it doesn't matter if Micheal B Jordan can do the character justice, they were gonna be against it regardless just because of his skin color. This reminds me of the racist fanboys trying to boycott Thor in 2011 because Iris Elba playing Hemidall.

Also a few years ago on this very site, there were a TON and I mean a TON of racist comments when the failed Black Panther show that was exclusive to BET ( and produced by Vin Desiel) was about to come out. It just saddens me that people that love superhero characters that stand up for justice and the right thing could be racist. And I am not taking about everyone, just some people.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Ok.

I guess you skipped over where I said I didnt have a problem with Heimdall, Kingpin or Nick Fury. Were they covered in orange makeup for the length of the films they appeared in?
Give me a *****ing break.

Ok so what makes it okay in your eyes for Ben to be portrayed by a black actor but not Johnny? No answer? Yea... That's what I thought. And the whole Sue being white and them being adopted siblings is a BS complain. That changes nothing really. I seen plenty of adopted siblings who treat each other like blood siblings all the time.

 

[mclay18]

If this is the "only" change....ok, don't see that happening...

The thing is, most comic book movies that make significant changes from the source material don't make them worthwhile. Like Parallax being this yellow monster cloud in Green Lantern, or Barbara being made Alfred's niece in Batman & Robin (instead of Gordon's daughter). Or turning Doctor Doom into a watered down X-Men style villain in the last two F4 films.

People who point out the race change on Alicia Masters for the last two F4 films are missing the point. Her relationship dynamic with Ben was unaltered... but it's a whole different ballgame with Johnny Storm.

I'm willing to give MBJ a chance, but Trank better have a great reason for making this change.

 

[psylockolussus]

UGH! Just stay true to the look of the characters in the comics!

 

[S. Grundy]

I'm willing to give MBJ a chance, but Trank better have a great reason for making this change.

Probably because he's a good actor, and has worked with him before. Which is good enough for me.

 

[CB Fan]

If this is the "only" change....ok, don't see that happening...

Never said it would be the only change but if its the biggest change the movie sees then its not in bad shape.

And PSYLOCKOLUSSUS being the x-men fan that you are you should know that just because they get someone who looks just like the character it doesn't mean that the portrayal/characterization will be true and that's where it counts, or at least should count...

 

[louiebling$]

This reminds me of the TASM all over

 

[psylockolussus]

And PSYLOCKOLUSSUS being the x-men fan that you are you should know that just because they get someone who looks just like the character it doesn't mean that the portrayal/characterization will be true and that's where it counts, or at least should count...

Their appearance in the movie still counts. Human Torch is one of the major characters in this movie, changing his race seems like a big drastic change to me.

 

[BrlntDsgse]

When I saw the new article on the SHH homepage, I knew it was gonna start a flame war. To some fanboys it doesn't matter if Micheal B Jordan can do the character justice, they were gonna be against it regardless just because of his skin color. This reminds me of the racist fanboys trying to boycott Thor in 2011 because Iris Elba playing Hemidall.

I'm sorry, but these kind of accusations of racism are DISGUSTING. While I'm sure that somewhere out there in the great wide world there have to be a measly few who are against this casting choice for bigoted reasons, the reason most are against it is NOT "just because of his skin color" it is because of a somewhat drastic change to the VISUAL LOOK of an iconic character, it just so happens that in this case, that drastic VISUAL change is due to the ethnicity of the actor.....that doesn't mean that any objections are bigoted.

Ok so what makes it okay in your eyes for Ben to be portrayed by a black actor but not Johnny?

While I cant speak for the original poster, MY answer would be......because BEN GRIMM is not a visually iconic character, the THING is. As long as the Thing looks like the Thing, it doesn't much matter what Ben looks like.
My personal stand on the issue boils down to this: Yes, alot of these characters were created at a time in history when "white" was the default choice, and I'm OK with adding some diversity by changing the ethnicity/race of supporting characters(like Laurence Fishburne as Perry White), most villains(like MCD as Kingpin, I also cant wait to see Jamie Foxx as Electro), and even some secondary tier heroes (like Sam Jackson as Nick Fury).....hell I'm even OK with changing the race of a major hero as long as it doesn't drastically alter the look of characters who are ICONS from the very visual medium of comics(see my example of Ben Grimm above, also years ago before the Iron Man movies my pick for Tony Stark would have been Denzel Washington.....because Tony is not the visual icon, the Iron Man armor is.) BUT, the vast majority of major, marquee heroes and major villains(Your Dooms, your Magnetos, your Lex Luthors, etc...) , I feel, should generally retain their iconic look when adapted to the big screen.....and the color of their skin is, like it or not, part of the visual. Now, this casting wont be any kind of dealbreaker for me, I'll still go see the film either way and I'll judge it on whether or not its a well-made flick.....but I'd still PREFER a white Johnny Storm, because thats what the character LOOKS like. This doesn't make me (or anyone else that feels the same) racist, in the same way that not liking the idea of Nic Cage as Superman doesn't make me bigoted against skinny guys with receding hairlines.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Visual look "matching the comics" means jack-crap.

As the Caucasian eldest sibling in an 8-child family where the four youngest are adopted (with the youngest and second-youngest being African-American), I not only vehemently dismiss this assertion that Johnny and Sue being adopted siblings changes their relationship as complete BS, I also find it totally ignorant and offensive.

 

[BrlntDsgse]

^ Visual look "matching the comics" means jack-crap.

Why is that? These are characters who originated in the comics, and comics is a PRIMARILY VISUAL MEDIUM. These characters are visual icons. Are having actors who give a good performance(regardless of race), and staying true to the tone and spirit of the comics MORE important than the visuals? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean staying true to the visuals of the comics isn't important at all.

As the Caucasian eldest sibling in an 8-child family where the four youngest are adopted (with the youngest and second-youngest being African-American), I not only vehemently dismiss this assertion that Johnny and Sue being adopted siblings changes their relationship as complete BS, I also find it totally ignorant and offensive.

This I totally agree with..... if Sue and Johnny end up being of different ethnicities, it doesn't have to change the dynamic of their relationship at all. As long as they are still portrayed as siblings who were raised together, they are still family and the relationship between the characters remains the same.