Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns Animated

[theMan-Bat]

I'm relieved that Batman still fires the Mutant's gun and shoots the Mutant gang member. The makers of this film didn't have their own balls removed. The comic doesn't really make it clear where exactly he shot her. It also is stated in the comic that Batman hasn't killed anybody.

I'm also relieved that there at least is some internal monologue narration in the film.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I always assumed he shot her in the shoulder or something.

 

[theMan-Bat]

 

[Rodrigo90]

I really want to see that cross dressing, gender bending and sexually ambgious Joker from TDKR and Morrison's Arkham in the next movie franchise.

 

[Holiday]

I'm relieved that Batman still fires the Mutant's gun and shoots the Mutant gang member. The makers of this film didn't have their own balls removed. The comic doesn't really make it clear where exactly he shot her. It also is stated in the comic that Batman hasn't killed anybody.

I mean, it's an ambiguous scene in the comic and I just wish they had left it closer to that for the film.

For that much blood to appear behind her and the placement of the bullet hole, it's likely she is shot in the chest or head. And while Lana Lang states Batman hasn't killed anyone, it's possible she does not know of what may have occurred.

 

[hellblazer103]

I really want to see that cross dressing, gender bending and sexually ambgious Joker from TDKR and Morrison's Arkham in the next movie franchise.

a live action morrison arkham movie would be amazing, and the perfect way to make the films darker than ever before.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Afterwords, when facing the Mutant leader, Batman says killing would be crossing a line he drew for himself 30 years ago.

Later, Batman says, "Voices calling me a killer...I wish I were." And the Joker taunts Batman for not having the "nerve" to kill.

Comics Journal editor Gary Groth debated Frank Miller about Dark Knight Returns at the Dallas Fantasy Fair on July 5, 1986, published in Comics Journal #112 (1986) and Frank Miller says, "This isn't Dirty Harry. For all the broken bones...Batman follows what I believe to be a very, very moral code of behavior. Despite what's said in [the Village Voice review article], he doesn't murder."

In Frank Miller's interview in Comics Interview #31 (1986) Frank Miller is asked how Batman is different from Dirty Harry. Frank replies, "He doesn't murder people."

 

[Holiday]

Those are different situations. In facing the mutant leader, to blow him away would have been cowardly as he was no immediate threat to anyone, Batman got out and faced him as a man. Same with Joker in the tunnel, he is only a threat to Batman at that point, regardless of how many he killed before or certainly would have killed after another escape.

With the mutant holding the child hostage, she is an immediate threat to take a life, as Batman believes. That is something that could push this Batman, a different Batman than Gotham used to know because Gotham itself is different, to take a life in order to save another.

It also would not be the only contradiction to Batman in Miller's story. Batman tells the Sons of Batman(while breaking a shotgun), "This is the weapon of the enemy. We do not need it. We will not use it". In another scene he refers to a gun as a "coward's weapon". Yet Miller has Batman wielding a gun time, after time, after time, after time, after time again.

As for Miller's quotes, (great finds by the way) I suppose that could end the debate and confirm the mutant is only wounded but I would like to read something from him addressing the scene directly.

 

[Venomfan]

the only problem with this movie is that TAS did the surgeon scene so much better. ironsides delivery of that line was scary

 

[theMan-Bat]

Again I point out that Frank Miller's Batman in Dark Knight Returns says killing would be crossing a line he drew for himself 30 years ago. He says, "Voices calling me a killer...I wish I were," indicating that he isn't really a killer. The author Frank Miller himself confirmed, "This isn't Dirty Harry. For all the broken bones...Batman follows what I believe to be a very, very moral code of behavior. Despite what's said in [the Village Voice article], he doesn't murder." And again, "He doesn't murder people." All of that indicates that Frank Miller's Batman doesn't actually kill in Dark Knight Returns.

As for the gun issue, context is key. In Dark Knight Returns Miller's Batman used spearguns and used the mounted guns on the Batmobile to fire non-lethal rubber bullets at the members of the Mutants gang and used a sonic soundwave discharger which gave Superman a nosebleed.

He only used the Mutant's gun to save the kid, but not to kill the Mutant member, since it's indicated that Miller's Batman in Dark Knight Returns has made and kept an oath against killing for 30 years and he indicates that killing the Mutant leader would have broken that 30 year oath, plus Frank Miller confirmed that he doesn't kill. He only used Commissioner Yindel's gun to shoot and ignite the plastic explosive to blow out the Tunnel of Love wall so he could make his escape. His rants against guns are really against people killing with guns. The key point is that he follows up calling a gun a "cowards weapon" by saying people kill to often because it's been made easy..too easy...

The Sons of the Batman gang members used their shotgun to kill with.

And they were also about to "raze and purge" Gotham.

So Batman broke their shotgun and told them he'd train them to use his weapons (non-lethal weapons) and had them join him to non-lethally stop the rioters and restore order in Gotham.

 

[EliteF50]

the only problem with this movie is that TAS did the surgeon scene so much better. ironsides delivery of that line was scary

Agreed.

But overall, Weller > Ironside. In fact, I'd say Weller was the second best Batman of all time, right behind Conroy.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Just watched Part 1.

Wow. That's the best animated DC Batman film since UTRH. Loved it all. Glad this turned out better than Year One did. I hope Part 2 is good, but I was never the biggest fan of Act's 3 and 4 of TDKR so we'll have to wait and see.

 

[The Joker]

Where are you guys getting to watch this? I thought it wasn't released until the 25th?

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Again I point out that Frank Miller's Batman in Dark Knight Returns says killing would be crossing a line he drew for himself 30 years ago. He says, "Voices calling me a killer...I wish I were," indicating that he isn't really a killer. The author Frank Miller himself said, "This isn't Dirty Harry. For all the broken bones...Batman follows what I believe to be a very, very moral code of behavior. Despite what's said in [the Village Voice article], he doesn't murder." And again, "He doesn't murder people." All of that indicates that Frank Miller's Batman doesn't actually kill in Dark Knight Returns.

As for the gun issue, context is key. In Dark Knight Returns Miller's Batman used spearguns and used the mounted guns on the Batmobile to fire non-lethal rubber bullets at the members of the Mutants gang and used a sonic soundwave discharger which gave Superman a nosebleed.

He only used the Mutant's gun to save the kid, but not to kill the Mutant member, since it's indicated that Miller's Batman in Dark Knight Returns has made and kept an oath against killing for 30 years and he indicts that killing the Mutant leader would have broken that 30 year oath. He only used Commissioner Yindel's gun to shoot and ignite the plastic explosive to blow out the Tunnel of Love wall so he could make his escape. His rants against guns are really against people killing with guns. The key point is that he follows up calling a gun a "cowards weapon" by saying people kill to often because it's been made easy..too easy...

All nice and easy but the true reason is that Miller hadn't planned those issues out and made it up as he went along. That's where all those contradictions come from. Also notice, the shift in tone in the last two isseus when you start to notice a lot of "Watchmen" creeping in.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

Alright I just finished it, it was incredible. The music and sound design were top-notch, and I chuckled a little at Watchmen, V For Vendetta and Swamp Thing being on sale in one of the shops.

 

[BeserkerHilf]

I'm maybe halfway through this, and I had to comment on just how awesome this plays out. The first dump battle is 100x more exciting in full motion. The standout moment for me so far is with the baby kidnappers. In the comic, it seems like he just shoots and kills the Mutant holding the baby. Here, they make it clear he disarms the Mutant then knocks her(?) out with the butt of the gun.

They're doing a kick-ass job of fleshing this out.

 

[cryptic name]

How are people watching this?

 

[Ponyboy]

^ SPOILER tag your post.

 

[theMan-Bat]

All nice and easy but the true reason is that Miller hadn't planned those issues out and made it up as he went along. That's where all those contradictions come from. Also notice, the shift in tone in the last two isseus when you start to notice a lot of "Watchmen" creeping in.

Actually Frank Miller had planned those issues out and didn't just make it up as he went along with no goal in sight. He explained in Comics Interview #31 (1986) that from the beginning the final issue was the most planned and prepared ahead of time. He said he often figures out the resolution first, where he wants to get, and then figures out how to get there.

In Comics Journal #101 (August, 1985) during an interview that took place in early June, 1985, Frank Miller revealed that in Dark Knight Returns an arrest warrant would be issued against Batman, which doesn't take place until the third issue.

In Comics Journal #101 (1985) Frank Miller revealed that another aspect of Dark Knight Returns would be about Batman being "too big" to be judged, which Commissioner Yindel comes to see what Gordon had meant during the riot in the last issue.

In Comics Journal #101 (1985) Frank Miller revealed that Superman would be in Dark Knight Returns, very different from Batman.

Superman and the president at odds with Batman first appear in Dark Knight Returns as early as the second issue so that was also a precursor to things to come, further indicating that Miller did have things planned out in advance.
In Amazing Heroes #102 (1986) it's explained that ideas for both Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year One were based off of Miller's original 1984, early 1985 notes for his proposed revamp of Batman for his and writer Steve Gerber's proposed Metropolis line of comics.

In Comics Journal #101 (1985) Frank Miller explained futher about Batman: The Dark Knight Returns being based on some of his notes from his proposed revamp of Batman for the proposed Metropolis line.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

^ SPOILER tag your post.

Is it really such a spoiler? It's a fleeting background moment that's easy to miss.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

I have such mixed feelings about Weller's Batman voice. It some scenes it sounds perfectly fine and in others it seems pretty out of place.

 

[The Joker]

I just watched part one (thank you again, Travesty). I loved it. The animation was smooth, polished, and beautiful. The voice acting was top notch, especially Weller. It's the graphic novel brought to life.

The cliffhanger with

Spoiler

Joker saying "B-B-Batman.....darling" when he sees him on TV

left me drooling in anticipation for part 2.

I rank this right up there with MOTP, UTRH, and ROTJ.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Actually Frank Miller had planned those issues out and didn't just make it up as he went along with no goal in sight. He explained in Comics Interview #31 (1986) that from the beginning the final issue was the most planned and prepared ahead of time.

Say what you want, Miller fanboy. In the first pages of DKR they talk about Batman, that he vanished 10 years ago and so on and the newscaster wishes him well. In the later chapters it's clear that everyone actually knows that superheroes were banned. It just doesn't add up. He might have thought about some things to use later but Miller is a writer that mostly makes things up as he goes along.

 

[BeserkerHilf]

It's 2012. Do you really need to ask this question?

 

[echostation]

It's available on VHS via a special delivery system called tethers and cords...