From what franchise will Marvel TDK born?

[Spider-Vader]

Eh, that looks dumb. I want something sinister looking.

 

[Bubonic]

I'd like the skull shape more like what we see in the comics, but I just like how we see the eyes through the skull.

 

[Dark Victory]

Punisher maybe because it's realistic like TDK but way too violent and probably wouldn't have a good story like TDK.

 

[The Major]

Punisher maybe because it's realistic like TDK but way too violent

Being more violent actually makes Punisher more realistic IMO. The Punisher is far more grounded franchise then Batman.

and probably wouldn't have a good story like TDK.

That's on the film makers. The Punisher can be an interesting character in the right hands. I haven't read the Garth Ennis run but I do know its a definitive run for the character. Using those stories as a inspiration or adapting specific stories from it could potential give them a TDK type film. Though it does depend on how skilled the film makers are and how good the adaption is.

I've heard one story arc from Ennis Punisher had 3 copycat Punishers, one was a priest, and Frank hunts them down. Excellent movie potential with that.

How the Punisher interacts with society would be interesting to see in a film, too. It could go into detail of how all levels of society react to having him around. Nolan did this perfectly with Batman, no reason it can't be done with Punisher. The franchise can provide fodder for intelligent stories not just a paint by the numbers shoot 'em up.

 

[Evil Twin]

To match TDK it's not about matching it's edginess, darkness, and "realism", it's about skilled filmmaking, with a conflict that means something, a standout performance, and a story that resonates with viewers. Star Wars and 2001: A Space Odyssey are both science fiction classics, but they're true to themselves and not at all alike. Hiring good filmmakers and letting them go for broke is a better idea than trying to imitate TDK's sensibilities.

A Spider-Man film that successfully brings to life the drama and character beats of "The Master Planner Saga" could be every bit the transcendant film that TDK is.

 

[Raiden]

I think it's a good thing that TDK's success came before Marvel start doing the rest of the movies that are on their schedule for release in the next several years. TDK shows Marvel that, with competent director, strong script with layered storytelling, and great actors, they too can score a major hit at the BO. Marvel did it with some of their movies, like SM2, IM, and X2, but they need to bring this quality consistently to their other films. I hope TDK is a good wake-up call, and Marvel will answer the challenge and up the ante once more.

 

[Red Mask]

Watched The Dark Knight and it's nothing but spectacular. I will not put spoiler in here but let just say it's more of a thriller-drama than a superhero exposition where the hero flies or shoots laser from his palm. So who are among the numerous Marvel franchises will have films more similar to TDK than your average superhero movie?

The candidates most probably are:
1. Captain America
2. Daredevil
3. The Punisher
4. Moon Knight
5. Black Panther
and many more. But what do you think will be the best one?

Capt. America should never be as dark as Batman. But these days it's harder to sell the flag without appearing too nationalistic.

I like the director's cut of Daredevil. The dynamics of the blue-collar environment reaches me better than a mish-mashed Gotham City. Bringing up religious icons don't bother me as long as it's not too preachy. If they should ever resume the franchise, they need a compelling angle on how people are still victims of urban crime.

Punisher should always be the extreme answer to crimefighting. Grim and unapologetic. But I hope the gore in this upcoming film isn't too silly. That red-band trailer was a splatter fest.

Moon Knight. Hmmm. Too redundant. It's too early for him

Black Panther. No way. He's a king, a genius, and a warrior from the most advanced nation in the world. Everything Batman has, King T'Challa has more of and people can't understand that. It's bad enough Danny Glover can't sell his movie concept on the Haitian Revolution. But people will have a harder time accepting this great hero unless some white guy or girl is standing by him. It would be like when Raymond Burr had to be cut into Godzilla to sell it to the West. Ironically, if Blade wasn't made, the superhero franchise wouldn't have gotten revived.

 

[Red Mask]

To match TDK it's not about matching it's edginess, darkness, and "realism", it's about skilled filmmaking, with a conflict that means something, a standout performance, and a story that resonates with viewers. Star Wars and 2001: A Space Odyssey are both science fiction classics, but they're true to themselves and not at all alike. Hiring good filmmakers and letting them go for broke is a better idea than trying to imitate TDK's sensibilities.

A Spider-Man film that successfully brings to life the drama and character beats of "The Master Planner Saga" could be every bit the transcendant film that TDK is.

I like the Spider-Man trilogy. I think it's better for kids too.

 

[CFE]

Marvel would be a pack of fools if their only priority in bringing future properties or continuances of current properties to the screen would be to match or out-do "TDK" critically or financially.

The best thing Marvel can do is move forward and hold faith in its own characters and stories...Let DC and Warners worry about having to top "TDK."

CFE

 

[The Major]

Capt. America should never be as dark as Batman. But these days it's harder to sell the flag without appearing too nationalistic.

Cap can be dark and be great. Read Brubaker's run. He isn't as dark as batman, of course but he does need some darkness. Especially if they want it to be realistic.

I like the director's cut of Daredevil. The dynamics of the blue-collar environment reaches me better than a mish-mashed Gotham City. Bringing up religious icons don't bother me as long as it's not too preachy. If they should ever resume the franchise, they need a compelling angle on how people are still victims of urban crime.

Agreed.

Punisher should always be the extreme answer to crimefighting. Grim and unapologetic. But I hope the gore in this upcoming film isn't too silly. That red-band trailer was a splatter fest.

The trailer looks more brutal then the last one. I don't think it'll have gore, though.

Moon Knight. Hmmm. Too redundant. It's too early for him

Why is MK redundant?

Black Panther. No way. He's a king, a genius, and a warrior from the most advanced nation in the world. Everything Batman has, King T'Challa has more of and people can't understand that.

Batman isn't a king.

They use the political angle like what Priest used in the comics which go into areas Batman doesn't. He has a lot of differences they could explore.

No-one will think he's Batman then.

It's bad enough Danny Glover can't sell his movie concept on the Haitian Revolution.

That sounds like an interesting movie.

But people will have a harder time accepting this great hero unless some white guy or girl is standing by him.

Everett K. Ross. They could use T'Challa's white college girlfriend too.

It would be like when Raymond Burr had to be cut into Godzilla to sell it to the West. Ironically, if Blade wasn't made, the superhero franchise wouldn't have gotten revived.

It's not getting a film any time soon.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

i thought the dark knight was great, but please, stop acting like it is the best superhero movie ever made, its close too it, but its not the best imo.

 

[The Major]

What's the best super-hero movie, Marvel?

 

[Red Mask]

Cap can be dark and be great. Read Brubaker's run. He isn't as dark as batman, of course but he does need some darkness. Especially if they want it to be realistic.

It's not the same type of darkness. And he's not as lonely as Batman.

Why is MK redundant?

We've got enough non-powered superheroes with gadgets. The more variety the better.

Batman isn't a king.

They use the political angle like what Priest used in the comics which go into areas Batman doesn't. He has a lot of differences they could explore.

No-one will think he's Batman then.

But will those issues really catch the interest of the general audience?

That sounds like an interesting movie.

But no big studio wants to fund it and they want a white hero. Danny Glover got most of his funding from Pres. Hugo Chavez!

Everett K. Ross. They could use T'Challa's white college girlfriend too.

I don't care for Ross and I don't care for any college girlfriend.

It's not getting a film any time soon.

And we know why.

 

[WeaponXProject]

I think Captain America can be much different than TDK and still make alot of money. I think Cap will be have a dark tone but will still have him being the red white and blue hero in the end.

I definitely agree with Iron Man 2 being his inner struggle, like someone said earlier. I like that idea of him unsure if he can defeat his own demons just to try and stop the world's demons.

 

[The Major]

It's not the same type of darkness. And he's not as lonely as Batman.

Darkness doesn't always equal lonely.

Cap's fought Nazis in world war 2. That's heavy ****. It can get even more freaky with the Red Skull running around.

He needs to deal with corrupt governments and changing political atmospheres in different eras. The material writes itself.

We've got enough non-powered superheroes with gadgets. The more variety the better.

Thats only surface detail. All heroes are unique if you look hard enough.

MK is a cold blooded merc turned vigilante who may or may not be the resurrected/avatar of Konshu. That's a great hook in itself. They could do loads of material just examining that.

He's also a super-hero with MPD. The public has never seen that on film before.

But will those issues really catch the interest of the general audience?

If they can execute it and market it well it should.

It would make it much more unique as a super-hero film.

Batman deals with drama while BP deals with politics.

But no big studio wants to fund it and they want a white hero. Danny Glover got most of his funding from Pres. Hugo Chavez!

He should find out how Don Cheatal got Hotel Rwanda movie made and copy it.

I don't care for Ross and I don't care for any college girlfriend.

Why not? They reach the requirements to get the white audience more interested in BP.

And we know why.

Why?

 

[Red Mask]

Darkness doesn't always equal lonely.

Cap's fought Nazis in world war 2. That's heavy ****. It can get even more freaky with the Red Skull running around.

He needs to deal with corrupt governments and changing political atmospheres in different eras. The material writes itself.

But it's still not the same darkness as Batman. The enemies aren't psychotics, they're threats to liberty, equality, and human rights. And Cap is the open symbol who can directly lead the people.

Thats only surface detail. All heroes are unique if you look hard enough.

MK is a cold blooded merc turned vigilante who may or may not be the resurrected/avatar of Konshu. That's a great hook in itself. They could do loads of material just examining that.

Unfortunately, after TDK's big success, it's either perceived as a rip-off, or somebody come up with a spoof. Buffy can compete with Blade because the approach is completely different.

He's also a super-hero with MPD. The public has never seen that on film before.

Oh I think Batman is borderline crazy enough.

If they can execute it and market it well it should.

It would make it much more unique as a super-hero film.

Batman deals with drama while BP deals with politics.

The studios will have to be very careful on how they market it. It's one thing where Hollywood argues against the follies of the West. Post 9-11 America has got brought lots of material to make it examine itself. It's another thing to have a fictional country do that, and be more advanced than they are.

I thought "Lumumba" was great, but it's a tragedy. Wakanda is anything not tragic.

He should find out how Don Cheatal got Hotel Rwanda movie made and copy it.

It's not the same thing. This is the Haitian Revolution. It's not about blacks killing each other and the West does nothing.

Why not? They reach the requirements to get the white audience more interested in BP.

Why?

We should be past that already. Hong Kong action films sold without any white character to back up the hero. But if Danny Glover can't sell his film because there's no white hero, how can we get a African superhero without a white guy to back him up? Black Panther has a kingdom to support him. That's not a comedy act like in "Coming to America", that's power!

 

[The Major]

But it's still not the same darkness as Batman. The enemies aren't psychotics, they're threats to liberty, equality, and human rights.

You don't think Modok, A.I.M, Hydra, Baron Zemo, Red Skull, Arnim Zola, Baron Strucker, Hate Monger, Crossbones and the numerous other freaks Cap fights are psychos?

Cap's got a twisted rogues gallery.

And Cap is the open symbol who can directly lead the people.

That should make it easier to do complex stuff with.

Unfortunately, after TDK's big success, it's either perceived as a rip-off, or somebody come up with a spoof.

That happens to every film. Marvel shouldn't worry about it.

There are more then enough differences in their heroes to be unique. They should focus on their differences which there are plenty.

Buffy can compete with Blade because the approach is completely different.

Franchises can be similar yet still compete.

Angel, Forever Knight and John Carpenter's Vampires all covered similar territory to Blade.

All they have do is do it in way that allows them to be uniquely executed and entertaining to watch. Having similar stories or themes doesn't change it.

Marvel hasn't had a problem making DD or Punisher films despite WB making Batman films for years.

Oh I think Batman is borderline crazy enough.

Batman doesn't go into his psychosis. Marvel could with Moon Knight. The MPD could make it easier for audiences to sympathize with him.

Marvel can expand into areas within the super-hero genre WB hasn't done in the past. This would allow them to be ahead of the curve instead of playing catch up. BP and MK are merely some of the franchises they could do this with.

The studios will have to be very careful on how they market it. It's one thing where Hollywood argues against the follies of the West. Post 9-11 America has got brought lots of material to make it examine itself.

Those problems aren't impossible to solve.

Nor do they need to do it in black and white terms.

They don't need to focus the attention on America totally for it to work, either. There are numerous factions within Wakanda who could be the big bads in the first movie.

Klaw doesn't need to be tied to any specific government to work. He'd be fine being hired by corporations like Roxxon who answer to no country or hired by said big bad.

It's another thing to have a fictional country do that, and be more advanced than they are.

If its fictional what's the big deal?

I thought "Lumumba" was great, but it's a tragedy. Wakanda is anything but.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. Could you explain it clearer, please?

It's not the same thing. This is the Haitian Revolution. It's not about blacks killing each other and the West does nothing.

Okay.

We should be past that already. Hong Kong action films sold without any white character to back up the hero. But if Danny Glover can't sell his film because there's no white hero, how can we get a African superhero without a white guy to back him up?

Neither Ross or T'Challa's white girlfriend diminish BP in any way. Ross was a comic relief in the comics but they could easily make him more serious. Have him in a similar role like John Myers from Hellboy.

Black Panther has a kingdom to support him.That's not a comedy act like in "Coming to America", that's power!

Never said it had to be a comedy act. Would be simple to do an ultra serious political thriller movie where BP is shown as a strong character.

 

[Hiruu]

It's like to See a Marvel BB, rather than TDK, which I didn't care for much. And I think Iron Man 2 has to be placed squarely in consideration for some strong results...given its release date, it's not going to get close to TDK, but if the can craft the film with a great deal of intrigue, and then deliver on it with serious marketing, as TimeW did with TDK, I'd say Iron Man 2 can topple the last film by a LARGE margin.

From the list, Black Panther has potential, for the second film to be REALLY excellent...but there's a danger of making it too culturally specific and thus boxing out alot of potential viewers. Klaw would be the obvious enemy and the origin story is pretty sturdy, so if the creative team can stay true to the source, yeah, it's got some potential....maybe even TDK like...and you won't even need a Will Smith.

Captain America could be MASSIVE in the US, and probably do well in several international venues as well, but it's probably got the most potential from the list. Thor might be too arcane, but still...if you put a HUGE international star (Brad Pitt) in it, you'd get some domestic interest, and internationally, the movie would probably make the different domestically...say $300/500 split WW.

 

[The Major]

Hiruu:

Was thinking Klaw could be the hitman for White Wolf and the Hatut Zeraze. That guy would rock in live action. He was awesome in Priest's BP.

 

[Hiruu]

Hiruu:

I think this serves as a strong basis for Black Panther origin story timeline:
- The whole birth thing, and maybe a tragic event or 2
- T'Challa goes to the west to school, and meets up with some future contacts in Marvel universe
- He returns home and White Wolf is plotting with M'Baku to kill the soon to-be king…Klaw is their agent. Father was murdered by Klaw, and White Wolf and M’Baku will use him to finish off T’Challa to assume power in Wakanda.
-T’Challa becomes Black Panther, and his father is avenged, Klaw is defeated, the plan fails, but M’Baku BECOMES Man-Ape and White Wolf escapes as well to become the mercenary for the follow-on movies if this one succeeds.

 

[The Major]

Hiruu:

Excellent.

 

[Red Mask]

You don't think Modok, A.I.M, Hydra, Baron Zemo, Red Skull, Arnim Zola, Baron Strucker, Hate Monger, Crossbones and the numerous other freaks Cap fights are psychos?

Cap's got a twisted rogues gallery.

Yes, but those guys symbolize threats to the modern West. Batman's villains are really urban horrors. They're mostly psychos who have been ruined in modern, urban society. Even Catwoman fits the profile. She was an abused woman who rebels against society.

Cap's foes operate on a wider scale. Ra's Al Ghul doesn't compare to HYDRA. The world knows they exist but they still can recruit followers. Why? Because there are people, like Crossbones, who think democracy doesn't work and people should not be equal to each other. It's got nothing to do with madness, it's human hatred.

That should make it easier to do complex stuff with.

Yes indeed. With Captain America people should feel more optimistic, because he strives for ideals we can all aspire to in the open with courage and hope. He doesn't settle for compromise just to promote his beliefs.

That happens to every film. Marvel shouldn't worry about it.

Marvel shouldn't worry at all. They're getting their products on film. Das Weiner Bros. have chosen more Vertigo titles than superhero titles. Now they're releasing Watchmen? That's the 'be all and end all' of modern superheroes!

They don't need to focus the attention on America totally for it to work, either. There are numerous factions within Wakanda who could be the big bads in the first movie.

Klaw doesn't need to be tied to any specific government to work. He'd be fine being hired by corporations like Roxxon who answer to no country or hired by said big bad.

If its fictional what's the big deal?

It shouldn't be a big deal. But this project has been in the works for years now. As we get more mainstream heroes back in the screen, the audience could forget that other heroes can be great to watch.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. Could you explain it clearer, please?

"Lumumba" is a tragic story. It's partly an indictment against western colonialism. But Wakanda is a nation that has never been conquered and it's super advanced. They are not victims, they're a shining example of what the world can achieve without Western interference.

Neither Ross or T'Challa's white girlfriend diminish BP in any way. Ross was a comic relief in the comics but they could easily make him more serious. Have him in a similar role like John Myers from Hellboy.

I don't think Black Panther needs somebody like that. He's got those fine bodyguards whom I can watch all day. t:

 

[The Major]

Yes, but those guys symbolize threats to the modern West. Batman's villains are really urban horrors. They're mostly psychos who have been ruined in modern, urban society. Even Catwoman fits the profile. She was an abused woman who rebels against society.

Agreed.

Cap's foes operate on a wider scale. Ra's Al Ghul doesn't compare to HYDRA. The world knows they exist but they still can recruit followers. Why? Because there are people, like Crossbones, who think democracy doesn't work and people should not be equal to each other. It's got nothing to do with madness, it's human hatred.

It goes beyond human hatred. None of Caps enemies would pass a psyche test. They're very crazy people.

Yes indeed. With Captain America people should feel more optimistic, because he strives for ideals we can all aspire to in the open with courage and hope. He doesn't settle for compromise just to promote his beliefs.

You're right. But he'd be more interesting given a situation that isn't purely black and white.

Marvel shouldn't worry at all. They're getting their products on film. Das Weiner Bros. have chosen more Vertigo titles than superhero titles. Now they're releasing Watchmen? That's the 'be all and end all' of modern superheroes!

Agreed.

It shouldn't be a big deal. But this project has been in the works for years now. As we get more mainstream heroes back in the screen, the audience could forget that other heroes can be great to watch.

Marvel wants to make an Ant-man movie. That's as far from high profile as you can get.

Thor isn't much higher to the non-comic reading public.

Other studios are always making lesser known adaptions, too.

"Lumumba" is a tragic story. It's partly an indictment against western colonialism.

Okay.

But Wakanda is a nation that has never been conquered and it's super advanced.

They were almost conquered by Klaw when he first visited Wakanda. One of their kings was brutally assassinated. There has been at least one coup de tat in Wakanda which left T'Challa without a kingdom to rule for a long time.

Being super advanced is good but Wakanda isn't unbeatable in the marvel universe.

They are not victims, they're a shining example of what the world can achieve without Western interference.

True.

However, they aren't perfect.

I don't think Black Panther needs somebody like that.

Why not? It would help the film tremendously in appealing to other races, especially in the American market.

They allow BP to be more human to the audience in different ways while being faithful to the comics while doing that.

He's got those fine bodyguards whom I can watch all day.

There is no reason they couldn't be in the films, too.

They bring more to the franchise then pure eye candy.

 

[Red Mask]

It goes beyond human hatred. None of Caps enemies would pass a psyche test. They're very crazy people.

A psyche on human decency? Sure, but they wouldn't be classified as being insane. Guys like the Red Skull and Arnim Zola as sane as Fred Philps, William Randal Rudolf, Slobodan Milosevic, & Osama Bin Laden. However, they're not in the same league as Ed Gein or the Son of Sam, whom are closer to Batman's crazy villains.

 

[jabbatheridge]

I'd say Daredevil but only if the franchise was rebooted a la Batman Begins with a different director and lead actor in the role.

They could beef up the role of Foggy Nelson, Ben Ulrich and some of the other recurring characters and turn half the film into a court room drama, whilst Daredevil hunts down the Kingpin or something. Plus with the Kingpin as the lead villain there'd be plenty of room for the kind of mob storylines used in TDK. So I'd go with Daredevil.