From what franchise will Marvel TDK born?

A psyche on human decency? Sure, but they wouldn't be classified as being insane.

Some of his enemies either were Nazis or have no problems working for them.

One of the tests a Nazi went through in training during WWII was to raise a puppy who they would grow attached to. They would have this pet for months. At the end the recruits had to kill the puppy by strangling it to death.

If they couldn't do this they were kicked out.

There were probably worse things during the training, as well. They definitely did stuff on a more horrific scale once they joined the ranks.

No sane person would willingly goes along with those activities.

Guys like the Red Skull and Arnim Zola as sane as Fred Philps, William Randal Rudolf, Slobodan Milosevic, & Osama Bin Laden.

I wouldn't call Bin Laden sane, either.

Who are the rest of your examples? I've heard of Milosevic but don't know much about him other then he was a Russian leader from the 90's. Do you mean Fred Phelps not Phillips? Is Rudolph the Olympic bomber guy? He was definitely crazy.

However, they're not in the same league as Ed Gein or the Son of Sam, whom are closer to Batman's crazy villains.

They're worse then serial killers.
 
In terms of tone:

Daredevil: Born Again or any Moon Knight arc.

In terms of Gravitas:

Iron Man: Demon in a Bottle, Armor Wars, or Extremis

Any adaptation of a Grant Morrison New X-Men arc (except the last)

The Sentry done right.
 
Some of his enemies either were Nazis or have no problems working for them.

One of the tests a Nazi went through in training during WWII was to raise a puppy who they would grow attached to. They would have this pet for months. At the end the recruits had to kill the puppy by strangling it to death.

If they couldn't do this they were kicked out.

There were probably worse things during the training, as well. They definitely did stuff on a more horrific scale once they joined the ranks.

Oh Major. You have no idea what a normal human being is capable of. Some of the dumbest laws in the world were created out of reason, but not out of morality. Some of the worst crimes were commited not out of insanity, but out of a deep belief that they were right.

If you've read "V for Vendetta", there's a passage where the doctor talks about a psych experiment. In it, a student is ordered to electrocute another person hidden next door. Even though they felt sick in doing it, they kept following orders as the victim screamed. Of course, the screaming victim was never electrocuted. He/she was just pretending. The students who sent the charge weren't sick at all. They just the obeyed the social conditioning of following orders from a higher authority.That was a real story. You'll find it written in many textbooks. That's just a small example of how messed up normal people are.

Many will even think S.E.A.L. training is inhumane. But it's part of the process of creating tough soldiers.

No sane person would willingly goes along with those activities.
And I beg to differ. Institutions make their own crazy rules to create the people they want. That doesn't make them decent human beings. They just become functional to commit the tasks.

I wouldn't call Bin Laden sane, either.

All religious fanatics are certifiable. Unfortunately, religious people aren't the most rational humans. That's what makes faith blind ignorance.

Who are the rest of your examples? I've heard of Milosevic but don't know much about him other then he was a Russian leader from the 90's. Do you mean Fred Phelps not Phillips? Is Rudolph the Olympic bomber guy? He was definitely crazy.

And yet there are many people like those guys because they sympathize with their beliefs. It took years to catch Rudolf, and the locals sure weren't helping much. That's why guys like the Red Skull can get followers, because they believe too. To them, it wasn't a crazy act, it was justifyable to some hateful, bigoted belief that they are right.

They're worse then serial killers.

You mean Cap's enemies? You bet, which is why he's such a great hero. Society can get rid of Batman's foes. That's not impossible. It didn't take a superhero to get Ed Gein, the Son of Sam, or even arrest the worst crime bosses. Interpol's caught numerous mafia leaders these past few years. In the past two weeks, two huge drug shipments have been caught. We know the weaknesses of today's law enforcement. But come on, even Batman couldn't solve a mystery like the Jon Bennet Ramsey murder.

The harder task is to get people to bravely open their minds, so that fear, hatred, and ignorance doesn't lead to mass destruction.
 
idk = I don't Know

Unfortunatley, I have not seen TDK yet... I need to sneak out after the kids go to sleep.

So until then, SM2 it is...
 
NP... I am hoping all the hype around TDK won't raise my expectations, as to be disappointed. But I am a Chicago guy, so any movie made therein gets some extra points with me.
 
My expectations were through the roof before I saw TDK. It was better then I thought possible.
 
I wish Marvel owned Punisher bc I think that could be the TDK for Marvel. Lionsgate just knocked the R rating of Punisher: War Zone down to PG 13 which takes all the potential out of the film.

Marvel needs Punisher back.
 
Capt. America should never be as dark as Batman. But these days it's harder to sell the flag without appearing too nationalistic.

I like the director's cut of Daredevil. The dynamics of the blue-collar environment reaches me better than a mish-mashed Gotham City. Bringing up religious icons don't bother me as long as it's not too preachy. If they should ever resume the franchise, they need a compelling angle on how people are still victims of urban crime.

Punisher should always be the extreme answer to crimefighting. Grim and unapologetic. But I hope the gore in this upcoming film isn't too silly. That red-band trailer was a splatter fest.

Moon Knight. Hmmm. Too redundant. It's too early for him

Black Panther. No way. He's a king, a genius, and a warrior from the most advanced nation in the world. Everything Batman has, King T'Challa has more of and people can't understand that. It's bad enough Danny Glover can't sell his movie concept on the Haitian Revolution. But people will have a harder time accepting this great hero unless some white guy or girl is standing by him. It would be like when Raymond Burr had to be cut into Godzilla to sell it to the West. Ironically, if Blade wasn't made, the superhero franchise wouldn't have gotten revived.

Red Mask makes a good point.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Black Panther is a Black man that's a genius, political leader, and a King of an African country that's the most advanced civilization on Earth. I might be wrong But Wakanda has never been conquered. Hollywood likely wouldn't want to greenlight something like that. And if they do it probably wont appeal to many westerners unless they give T'Challa a White love intrest or throw in a White man to also be the hero. That's what was done in the Blade films. (Whistler was a great character though.) African movies that deal with the subject of Black people killing each other and suffering seems to be what Hollywood likes to push out.
 
Arc:

T'Challa has a white love interest.

They have Ross to use as a character they can relate to like Myers was in Hellboy.

Neither of these elements would change BP into something it isn't since they are already build into the concept from the comics.

Undisputed was made and it had two black star characters trying to kill each other and suffering.

Hotel Rwanda and Blood Diamond had that, too.
 
Wakanda is not an exploited nation, nor is it in turmoil. Throwing in a political struggle within is cliche. Why else are villains like Man-Ape and others so forgettable? And yet everybody remembers Klaw. No, the true enemy of Wakanda is outside its borders.

Undisputed was a great film. I don't know if it was based partly on Mike Tyson. But the idea of two black cons in prison, fighting each other, seems like a suspicious money-maker.
 
Wakanda is not an exploited nation, nor is it in turmoil. Throwing in a political struggle within is cliche.

It works. It can make BP's films unique and could be a good gimmick to get people interested.

I've never seen a super-hero film deal with politics like that before. BP's a natural for it.

Why else are villains like Man-Ape and others so forgettable?

They don't fight the FF or anybody else regularly.

And yet everybody remembers Klaw. No, the true enemy of Wakanda is outside its borders.

Isn't that more of an exposure thing? The only super-villain in BP's rogues who has a huge presence in the Marvel universe is Klaw.
 
Ironman will be.

IM covers some of the territory but he's primary business orientated. He isn't a king, either.

I was hoping Thor would but nope.

Thor's in the same situation. He is a prince but he acts more like a warrior and his kingdom is far to different from normal politics that BP would deal with on the international stage.

Thor tends to deal with problems directly and with force, BP out thinks his opponents several steps ahead using direct and indirect methods in ways his enemies never can predict.
 
Frank Miller's graphic novel Daredevil: The Man Without Fear would make for an awesome movie. It runs the gamut from his origin to his love of Elektra, to his training with stick. It doesn't focus on Elektra too much, but on how he truly becomes the man without fear. It's very dark and portrays the Kingpin before he becomes the Kingpin and how he becomes DD's worst enemy. None of that stupid Bullseye with a target on his forehead bull$&!%. Pick it up and read it. You're gonna like it.

I think Moon Knight is too psycho to be in a movie of his own. I don't know if he would be appealing to the audience. He's more brutal than the Punisher and less known.

Cap needs his own voice. The thing I liked about the new Marvel films (this year) is they had their own voice like the characters. They had a certain feel to the movie that defined the character. Fun, charismatic, sexy. That is Tony Stark. The Hulk was more paranoid. He was unsure of himself and didn't trust anyone.

Cap needs to be serious, but not dark. He is a confident leader. He is not torn like other heroes. He doesn't have the baggage like Batman. I would like gritty, but not dark. I think it needs to show his determination to be the best and fight for what he believes in no matter how bad the cricumstances.
 
A good theme for a BP movie would be the political angle... BUT not using internal political unrest... rather there should be international pressure being exerted on Wakanda. Establish that Wakanda is a small nation in central / southern / eastern Africa that has maintained its independence over the last century of geo-political change and turmoil in in Africa... British colonization and occupancy, WWII encroachments, modern despots, tribal conflicts and revolutions, etc... It was the will of the people, the political mastery of its leaders, and treaties based on sharing of resources and technology that allowed it to remain a small yet distinct territory all this time (like Lichtenstein or even a Native American reservation)...

But now, the world craves its rare resources and advances in technology. Neighboring nations want to move in and annex the land of Wakanda, while world's superpowers want to carve it up and take over its resources. This would create an intricate and complex plot that would provide drama regarding political maneuvering, international agreements, military operations, and shadowy mercenary / assassin angles...
 
In terms of tone:

Daredevil: Born Again or any Moon Knight arc.

In terms of Gravitas:

Iron Man: Demon in a Bottle, Armor Wars, or Extremis

Any adaptation of a Grant Morrison New X-Men arc (except the last)

The Sentry done right.


I completely agree with this especially the MoonKnight one:up:
 
Oh Major. You have no idea what a normal human being is capable of. Some of the dumbest laws in the world were created out of reason, but not out of morality. Some of the worst crimes were commited not out of insanity, but out of a deep belief that they were right.


Is this a qoute? It's very true and profound.
 
I think Moon Knight is too psycho to be in a movie of his own.

Being psycho would trump MK's interesting mythos?

If an MK film gets made it could be incredible. The public would discover the first super-hero, to them, with MPD and be fascinated with the question of where he was resurrected by Konshu or not. It shouldn't be answered IMO.

Just keep it away with MSJ.

I don't know if he would be appealing to the audience.

In a world where action heroes like Rambo, John McClane and Jack Bauer are popular MK should be fine.

As long as they execute him well in a good movie the public should like Marc Spectre.

He's more brutal than the Punisher and less known.

A big budget movie would give him that exposure. MK won't become more well known unless he's actually given high profile projects to shine in.
 
Watched The Dark Knight and it's nothing but spectacular. I will not put spoiler in here but let just say it's more of a thriller-drama than a superhero exposition where the hero flies or shoots laser from his palm. So who are among the numerous Marvel franchises will have films more similar to TDK than your average superhero movie?

The candidates most probably are:
1. Captain America
2. Daredevil
3. The Punisher
4. Moon Knight
5. Black Panther
and many more. But what do you think will be the best one?
None. I am so tired of threads like this. There will not & should not be a Marvel TDK. Any attempt on Marvel's part to steal The Dark Knight's thunder will be seen as such, & consequently fail.
 
Tropic Thunder has got both flash and thunder! Booyah!

Give us Antman and we'll see what's not possible for superheroes!
 
Being psycho would trump MK's interesting mythos?

If an MK film gets made it could be incredible. The public would discover the first super-hero, to them, with MPD and be fascinated with the question of where he was resurrected by Konshu or not. It shouldn't be answered IMO.

Just keep it away with MSJ.



In a world where action heroes like Rambo, John McClane and Jack Bauer are popular MK should be fine.

As long as they execute him well in a good movie the public should like Marc Spectre.



A big budget movie would give him that exposure. MK won't become more well known unless he's actually given high profile projects to shine in.


Word.


I know what you mean wallace but as far as MoonKnight that comparison will be there regardless.
 

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