G5: The Wooden Anniversary Edition

[spideyboy_1111]

Oy. I now remember why I haven't posted in this thread in weeks. My apologies. Carry on everyone.

oh jp, quit being a diva. we all love you, just not when you try to hard to be caddy

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I know sometimes it feels "safer" to hang out with straight guys, rather than be out in the gay community. When you put yourself out there, then you open yourself up to guys who have different expectations than you (if you're looking for a relationship, you wind up with a guy who only wants 1-night stands; if you want to take things slow, you wind up with a guy who wants to meet your parents after the third date; this always happens ).

With straight guys, you can be gay "in theory," and find unavailable men sexually attractive, but be under a self-imposed barrier of never being able to go any further than that.

Of course, the advantage of hanging around straight guys rather than straight women is that you don't have to pretend to know everything about the upcoming fall line.

yeah, it's scary. trust me i get it. i went through hell and back. But the point is, if you don't put yourself out there.. you're not going to find what you want. Once you find good friends in the community, it all begins to change.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

To be brutally honest, JP just says what everyone is thinking.

marx just wasnt talking about me and him comments.. he was talking about pretty much every post JP has ever made in here.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Yeah, I know that.

 

[The_Raganork]

yeah, it's scary. trust me i get it. i went through hell and back. But the point is, if you don't put yourself out there.. you're not going to find what you want. Once you find good friends in the community, it all begins to change.

Provided this ever happens.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Plus I really have nothing in common with most of anyone around my age. I tried to find people I'm like minded with, it was a tough battle and it only resulted in my lowering myself to someone else standards for something. For a few years I was so desperate to be accepted by the gay community that I was fine with that.

most of my gay friends, actually majority of those i've gotten along with were all at least 3 years older than me. I too never felt comfortable with the immaturity levels of guys my age.

But after going to a few gay clubs and hanging around my gay "friends" I realized that this wasn't the community I was actually apart of.

Everyone I knew was into the moment, while I was into something else. I honestly can't idolize lady Gaga or Beyonce and this put me on the tail end of a lot of jokes and confusion in the community.

this is perfectly fine as well.. the bar scene can be very much like this, but that's also because it's full of everyone trying to fit in.. and act in ways in which they feel get them more attention. My best gay friends i actually met at school, online, or through other friends. Never met a good one in a bar. And don't get me wrong, i love going to the bars, but i don't go to pay attention to other people, i go with my friends, and only concentrate on them. Sometimes we bump into someone fun to talk to, but that's really it.

 

[Pink Ranger]

But after going to a few gay clubs and hanging around my gay "friends" I realized that this wasn't the community I was actually apart of.

If you don't mind me asking, what city do you live in? The reason I ask is that a city of a fair size often has many, many options outside of bars and bathhouses to meet people.

For example, I'm originally from Vancouver, which is a smallish city. Yet, we have a gay soccer league, a gay hockey team, several gay bowling leagues, a gay sci-fi/comic club, a gay cycling and hiking club, and even a gay classic car collector's society(!).

If you're from a city with a decent size, I bet you there a lot of social opportunities like this, if you look for them. Start with the local gay newspaper/magazine.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Provided this ever happens.

well... you can't unless you try. And you can't let every bad experience keep you down and holding you back from the possibilities of a good one.

If you don't try you also can't get emo and complain about falling in love with straight men, and why you are lonely either. If you isolate yourself, of course you will be.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

If you don't mind me asking, what city do you live in? The reason I ask is that a city of a fair size often has many, many options outside of bars and bathhouses to meet people.

For example, I'm originally from Vancouver, which is a smallish city. Yet, we have a gay soccer league, a gay hockey team, several gay bowling leagues, a gay sci-fi/comic club, a gay cycling and hiking club, and even a gay classic car collector's society(!).

If you're from a city with a decent size, I bet you there a lot of social opportunities like this, if you look for them. Start with the local gay newspaper/magazine.

this

 

[Marx]

yeah, it's scary. trust me i get it. i went through hell and back. But the point is, if you don't put yourself out there.. you're not going to find what you want. Once you find good friends in the community, it all begins to change.

I agree with this.

 

[The_Raganork]

most of my gay friends, actually majority of those i've gotten along with were all at least 3 years older than me. I too never felt comfortable with the immaturity levels of guys my age.

Most of my friends are actually 20-30 years older than me. Not dating friends just people I get along with.

this is perfectly fine as well.. the bar scene can be very much like this, but that's also because it's full of everyone trying to fit in.. and act in ways in which they feel get them more attention. My best gay friends i actually met at school, online, or through other friends. Never met a good one in a bar. And don't get me wrong, i love going to the bars, but i don't go to pay attention to other people, i go with my friends, and only concentrate on them. Sometimes we bump into someone fun to talk to, but that's really it.

I don't have many friends, and can't tolerate the music at gay bars. My last professor was gay, we get along pretty well, So I might go to some with him.

Still my experiences at Gay bars have been pretty terrible. Bad music, bad people and conversations not worth a damn.

If you don't mind me asking, what city do you live in? The reason I ask is that a city of a fair size often has many, many options outside of bars and bathhouses to meet people.

I live in THE city.

NYC

For example, I'm originally from Vancouver, which is a smallish city. Yet, we have a gay soccer league, a gay hockey team, several gay bowling leagues, a gay sci-fi/comic club, a gay cycling and hiking club, and even a gay classic car collector's society(!).

Yeah, I lived in Vancouver when I was younger, I wish I could go back. There seemed to be smart Gay people there.

If you're from a city with a decent size, I bet you there a lot of social opportunities like this, if you look for them. Start with the local gay newspaper/magazine.

I've read through magazines, it's all sex and fashion, techno-pop.

Nothing was ever to my banal interest. I'm still fascinated by the fifties and the sixties.

I think Golden Girls is one of the best shows on television ever.

I'm 23, it's hard to find a 23 year old who thinks this already.

I'm not interested in teaching someone these things anymore.

well... you can't unless you try. And you can't let every bad experience keep you down and holding you back from the possibilities of a good one.

I tried and tried.

Eventually it becomes beating yourself over the head with it. I got tired of going out in vain.

I'm not a highly sexual person when I go out; people don't find me that attractive, I don't mind that.

I don't have that block with straight men because, they don't care generally. The guy I'm talking to now is a genius.

I can talk about Kant to Final Fantasy VIII with him.

If you don't try you also can't get emo and complain about falling in love with straight men, and why you are lonely either. If you isolate yourself, of course you will be.

Isolation and not being accepted into a community are two different things. I worked at the big gay community center here, I was around all these people in high school. I was a peer educator, I did it all, I put myself out there and no one bit..well no one of worth.

I'm not getting "emo" over liking the straight guy, it's a unfortunate situation at best but, ultimately I found someone I bond with greater than anyone else I've ever met, his orientation isn't what concerns me at the moment really, it just happens to be what it is.

I just don't see why I should be expected to assimilate to the Gay community to find something worthwhile

Although I do think it has something to do with living in a vain city

 

[JP]

A fellow NYCer?

 

[Marx]

Most of my friends are actually 20-30 years older than me. Not dating friends just people I get along with.




I don't have many friends, and can't tolerate the music at gay bars. My last professor was gay, we get along pretty well, So I might go to some with him.

Still my experiences at Gay bars have been pretty terrible. Bad music, bad people and conversations not worth a damn.



I live in THE city.

NYC



Yeah, I lived in Vancouver when I was younger, I wish I could go back. There seemed to be smart Gay people there.



I've read through magazines, it's all sex and fashion, techno-pop.

Nothing was ever to my banal interest. I'm still fascinated by the fifties and the sixties.

I think Golden Girls is one of the best shows on television ever.

I'm 23, it's hard to find a 23 year old who thinks this already.

I'm not interested in teaching someone these things anymore.



I tried and tried.

Eventually it becomes beating yourself over the head with it. I got tired of going out in vain.

I'm not a highly sexual person when I go out; people don't find me that attractive, I don't mind that.

I don't have that block with straight men because, they don't care generally. The guy I'm talking to now is a genius.

I can talk about Kant to Final Fantasy VIII with him.



Isolation and not being accepted into a community are two different things. I worked at the big gay community center here, I was around all these people in high school. I was a peer educator, I did it all, I put myself out there and no one bit..well no one of worth.

I'm not getting "emo" over liking the straight guy, it's a unfortunate situation at best but, ultimately I found someone I bond with greater than anyone else I've ever met, his orientation isn't what concerns me at the moment really, it just happens to be what it is.

I just don't see why I should be expected to assimilate to the Gay community to find something worthwhile

You and I sound very similar rag. What spideyboy means is that if you're not putting yourself out there in some way you'll never find anyone. (gay friends or otherwise.)

Although I do think it has something to do with living in a vain city

I couldn't imagine living in LA or NYC. I've told spideyboy before that I'm not attractive enough or arrogant enough for it. He just mocks me though.

I like to visit, but I don't think I could ever live there.

 

[The_Raganork]

A fellow NYCer?

haha, problem solved!

You and I sound very similar rag. What spideyboy means is that if you're not putting yourself out there in some way you'll never find anyone. (gay friends or otherwise.)

To quote my straight friend: "When I came to college I thought I was going to meet intellectuals"

Part of the problem of putting myself out there, is that the place allotted to be put out there are clubs and bars, neither of which are my scene, so when I go there I find sexy guys but, none I can mesh with.

I couldn't imagine living in LA or NYC. I've told spideyboy before that I'm not attractive enough or arrogant enough for it. He just mocks me though.

I like to visit, but I don't think I could ever live there.

Nah, the good thing about NYC is that if you just float around, and not devote yourself to one real place there's a helluva a lot to see and do.

I refuse to be apart of the gay scene, it's so restricted, sadly it's one of the communities that's most discriminatory. On paper everyone is welcomed but, the moment you don't have something to offer or don't like the people they idolize to no end, you're an outcast.

That's the drawback to big cities, everyone wants a piece so you need to be a closed group, a smaller city or venue is more tailor made to the individual.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Most of my friends are actually 20-30 years older than me. Not dating friends just people I get along with.




I don't have many friends, and can't tolerate the music at gay bars. My last professor was gay, we get along pretty well, So I might go to some with him.

Still my experiences at Gay bars have been pretty terrible. Bad music, bad people and conversations not worth a damn.



I live in THE city.

NYC



Yeah, I lived in Vancouver when I was younger, I wish I could go back. There seemed to be smart Gay people there.



I've read through magazines, it's all sex and fashion, techno-pop.

Nothing was ever to my banal interest. I'm still fascinated by the fifties and the sixties.

I think Golden Girls is one of the best shows on television ever.

I'm 23, it's hard to find a 23 year old who thinks this already.

I'm not interested in teaching someone these things anymore.



I tried and tried.

Eventually it becomes beating yourself over the head with it. I got tired of going out in vain.

I'm not a highly sexual person when I go out; people don't find me that attractive, I don't mind that.

I don't have that block with straight men because, they don't care generally. The guy I'm talking to now is a genius.

I can talk about Kant to Final Fantasy VIII with him.



Isolation and not being accepted into a community are two different things. I worked at the big gay community center here, I was around all these people in high school. I was a peer educator, I did it all, I put myself out there and no one bit..well no one of worth.

I'm not getting "emo" over liking the straight guy, it's a unfortunate situation at best but, ultimately I found someone I bond with greater than anyone else I've ever met, his orientation isn't what concerns me at the moment really, it just happens to be what it is.

I just don't see why I should be expected to assimilate to the Gay community to find something worthwhile

Although I do think it has something to do with living in a vain city

see you suffer from a common misconception. The gay community is a group of a bunch of different communities, not just the most focused on one, or stereotypical one.. full of pop music, latest trends, caddy behavior, and are completely vain. Those (and probably leather daddys and drag queens) are the ones that stand out the most.. because they are the most "different". Don't label the whole community as that, and if you really don't want to be around that that's equally understandable. But it's also not your only option. You are accepted in the gay community, just not the portion you feel so different from.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

haha, problem solved!



To quote my straight friend: "When I came to college I thought I was going to meet intellectuals"

Part of the problem of putting myself out there, is that the place allotted to be put out there are clubs and bars, neither of which are my scene, so when I go there I find sexy guys but, none I can mesh with.





Nah, the good thing about NYC is that if you just float around, and not devote yourself to one real place there's a helluva a lot to see and do.

I refuse to be apart of the gay scene, it's so restricted, sadly it's one of the communities that's most discriminatory. On paper everyone is welcomed but, the moment you don't have something to offer or don't like the people they idolize to no end, you're an outcast.

That's the drawback to big cities, everyone wants a piece so you need to be a closed group, a smaller city or venue is more tailor made to the individual.

im sorry, but like i just said, you're restricting yourself by only limiting yourself to those kind of gay bars and scenes. NYC is alot like LA and i know several gay dive bars that are nothing like the trendy clubs (for instance) LA also had gay hiking and camping trips Hell ohio even has them). So if you seriously TRY to find a group or people you're interested in.. maybe you will be more successful?

 

[The_Raganork]

see you suffer from a common misconception. The gay community is a group of a bunch of different communities, not just the most focused on one, or stereotypical one.. full of pop music, latest trends, caddy behavior, and are completely vain. Those (and probably leather daddys and drag queens) are the ones that stand out the most.. because they are the most "different". Don't label the whole community as that, and if you really don't want to be around that that's equally understandable. But it's also not your only option. You are accepted in the gay community, just not the portion you feel so different from.

I never said the entire community is like that but, there is a conscious choice to make those exact things the FACE of the community.

Now when trying to find something of a little more substance it's harder because it's all buried down under all of those things.

I've looked for parts of the community that fit my liking but, by then it's too individual. Narrowing my choices (which were already meager to begin with) down to one community doesn't do me any favors ultimately.

I can't say I'm accepted into the gay community however, when we play with words this way we have to remember a community is the sum of all it's parts and I don't think any of us would argue that the vain group I mentioned earlier are a large portion.

I'm not against the gay community but, I'm not above noticing it has a series of critical flaws in it as well.

The gay community just ISN'T all inclusive as sometimes we like to pretend it is. There are a great series of things you can be born with to make the gay community look the other way.

That doesn't mean EVERYONE it means the community ultimately. It's a serious problem.

I joke that I'm unattractive and odd but, honestly, I'm an average looking person and don't show my oddities until I'm comfortable.

there should be no way I'm alienated in a gay bar/club/event

 

[The_Raganork]

im sorry, but like i just said, you're restricting yourself by only limiting yourself to those kind of gay bars and scenes. NYC is alot like LA and i know several gay dive bars that are nothing like the trendy clubs (for instance) LA also had gay hiking and camping trips Hell ohio even has them). So if you seriously TRY to find a group or people you're interested in.. maybe you will be more successful?

I'm not sure why you keep suggesting I haven't tried, I only gave you a small fraction of what I've done.

Part of my problem is that the things I think should be more common place are actually AVERAGE things in the straight community, and a lot of our oddities (be they fun or harmful) are exploited.

Why do I have to look hard to find a gay bowling league? it seems to average and banal is should just be out there.

The community spends a hell of a lot of time of trying to be extraordinary, much at the expense of MOST of it's members

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I never said the entire community is like that but, there is a conscious choice to make those exact things the FACE of the community.

Now when trying to find something of a little more substance it's harder because it's all buried down under all of those things.

I've looked for parts of the community that fit my liking but, by then it's too individual. Narrowing my choices (which were already meager to begin with) down to one community doesn't do me any favors ultimately.

I can't say I'm accepted into the gay community however, when we play with words this way we have to remember a community is the sum of all it's parts and I don't think any of us would argue that the vain group I mentioned earlier are a large portion.

I'm not against the gay community but, I'm not above noticing it has a series of critical flaws in it as well.

The gay community just ISN'T all inclusive as sometimes we like to pretend it is. There are a great series of things you can be born with to make the gay community look the other way.

That doesn't mean EVERYONE it means the community ultimately. It's a serious problem.

I joke that I'm unattractive and odd but, honestly, I'm an average looking person and don't show my oddities until I'm comfortable.

there should be no way I'm alienated in a gay bar/club/event

no there's really not... it's just what the media chooses to put because its often "funny", it also is a stigma alot of people want to be like, because it looks like they have the most fun and are always happy... so they try to emulate that. Its very common for groups of a society who've been persecuted to try to find a common bond.... (hell look at the black community, i have several black friends who've been "kicked out" of there community for not liking rap music and wearing baggy clothes.. and called "too white")

there will always be people in a community you don't like.. and even if you find a group of people you do like.. there may be some in that group who arn't what you'd think would fit that bill. No one is perfect, and no one is the same. You're never going to find a group of people who are exact carbon copies of what you like.. maybe 1 or 2.. but not a group, not if you are as equally narrow minded as you claim that part of the community is.

i suggest making a list of your interests (hell even post it on here) and find (or hell ill personally help you find) groups or people possibly interested in the same things.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm not sure why you keep suggesting I haven't tried, I only gave you a small fraction of what I've done.

Part of my problem is that the things I think should be more common place are actually AVERAGE things in the straight community, and a lot of our oddities (be they fun or harmful) are exploited.

Why do I have to look hard to find a gay bowling league? it seems to average and banal is should just be out there.

The community spends a hell of a lot of time of trying to be extraordinary, much at the expense of MOST of it's members

again, you're still proving me right. I know of several gay bowling leagues in LA and ohio.. like i said, make a list of your interests

 

[The_Raganork]

no there's really not... it's just what the media chooses to put because its often "funny",

Agreed, but it still originates from someplace...

it also is a stigma alot of people want to be like, because it looks like they have the most fun and are always happy... so they try to emulate that. Its very common for groups of a society who've been persecuted to try to find a common bond.... (hell look at the black community, i have several black friends who've been "kicked out" of there community for not liking rap music and wearing baggy clothes.. and called "too white") [/quote]

I'm black, I don't like Rap, I don't like baggy clothes. I'm definitely kicked out.

It's not right, that's not what defines being black; same thing with gay community, it's no different a lot of the time.

The difference is that this isn't a "common bond" Rap music isn't about being black, and lady gaga isn't about being gay.

It's a mad dash to join in on the popular wagon to be liked. (not that there aren't people who legitimately like this stuff)

there will always be people in a community you don't like.. and even if you find a group of people you do like.. there may be some in that group who arn't what you'd think would fit that bill.

That IF is a big one. Again narrowing down my search to the gay community makes my rate of failure increase, only because it eliminates non-gay people.

As much as I'd like for there to be space for me in the gay community, my interest are so specific I'm not going to find a community of it...maybe some individual people but, a sub community is very unlikely

They'd all share being gay in common, My unconditional friends almost share nothing in common. The thread of commonality can be an issue at times.

No one is perfect, and no one is the same. You're never going to find a group of people who are exact carbon copies of what you like.. maybe 1 or 2.. but not a group, not if you are as equally narrow minded as you claim that part of the community is.

I'm not looking for a group of people to be a carbon copy. If I met myself on the street we'd have nothing to talk about.

But the fact that I can walk into a gay community center in NYC and not find something I enjoy doing there shows there's something being kept out.

The central theme of agreement can't be: "We're Gay" which is what a lot of it is.

Is this bowling supposed to be more fun because it's with gay people? That's somewhat absurd.

I'd love to have more gay friends but, the gay part is extremely secondary. Like I said my college professor is gay, we've in classes together for years.

I knew he was awesome from the day we met, I didn't know he was gay until years later. We don't bond cause it's "oh we have similar interest as gay people"

The gay part is somewhat inconsequential.

The community to me, seems to be looking for the Gay and not the interest.

i suggest making a list of your interests (hell even post it on here) and find (or hell ill personally help you find) groups or people possibly interested in the same things.

Thanks

While I appreciate that, it's all done for me

The things I like to do are very specific. Find me a 20 something, spanish guy, who knows the in and outs of the final fantasy series and has a deep love for the pretenders

and you've found my soul mate

 

[The_Raganork]

again, you're still proving me right. I know of several gay bowling leagues in LA and ohio.. like i said, make a list of your interests

I think you missed the point of my post. I can find a gay bowling league in NYC with some digging.

as an ideal I should not have to dig for something so common place.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Agreed, but it still originates from someplace...

it also is a stigma alot of people want to be like, because it looks like they have the most fun and are always happy... so they try to emulate that. Its very common for groups of a society who've been persecuted to try to find a common bond.... (hell look at the black community, i have several black friends who've been "kicked out" of there community for not liking rap music and wearing baggy clothes.. and called "too white")

I'm black, I don't like Rap, I don't like baggy clothes. I'm definitely kicked out.

It's not right, that's not what defines being black; same thing with gay community, it's no different a lot of the time.

The difference is that this isn't a "common bond" Rap music isn't about being black, and lady gaga isn't about being gay.

It's a mad dash to join in on the popular wagon to be liked. (not that there aren't people who legitimately like this stuff)



That IF is a big one. Again narrowing down my search to the gay community makes my rate of failure increase, only because it eliminates non-gay people.

As much as I'd like for there to be space for me in the gay community, my interest are so specific I'm not going to find a community of it...maybe some individual people but, a sub community is very unlikely

They'd all share being gay in common, My unconditional friends almost share nothing in common. The thread of commonality can be an issue at times.



I'm not looking for a group of people to be a carbon copy. If I met myself on the street we'd have nothing to talk about.

But the fact that I can walk into a gay community center in NYC and not find something I enjoy doing there shows there's something being kept out.

The central theme of agreement can't be: "We're Gay" which is what a lot of it is.

Is this bowling supposed to be more fun because it's with gay people? That's somewhat absurd.

I'd love to have more gay friends but, the gay part is extremely secondary. Like I said my college professor is gay, we've in classes together for years.

I knew he was awesome from the day we met, I didn't know he was gay until years later. We don't bond cause it's "oh we have similar interest as gay people"

The gay part is somewhat inconsequential.

The community to me, seems to be looking for the Gay and not the interest.



Thanks

While I appreciate that, it's all done for me

The things I like to do are very specific. Find me a 20 something, spanish guy, who knows the in and outs of the final fantasy series and has a deep love for the pretenders

and you've found my soul mate

haha, well i do love helping people. But also read read your messages... it shows that you're also extremely picky (trust me, i was once there) But i grew out of it.. i realized in some ways i was being just as impractical as the people i couldn't stand were.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think you missed the point of my post. I can find a gay bowling league in NYC with some digging.

as an ideal I should not have to dig for something so common place.

well.. ideal or not you're looking for a specific amongst a minority.. so it's not going to be hugely common placed anyway.

 

[The_Raganork]

haha, well i do love helping people. But also read read your messages... it shows that you're also extremely picky (trust me, i was once there) But i grew out of it.. i realized in some ways i was being just as impractical as the people i couldn't stand were.

I don't think I'm picky...I know what I like.

I don't bar anything, if something comes across my way and I like it...I like it.

I don't think I'm going to "grow out" of liking the things I like and suddenly liking anything and everything.

Many things have no interest to me and will continue to have no interest to me. Like Twilight.

this is why I don't have many friends. 4 or 5 REALLY good friends and that's about it. I'm fine with that, I can't fill up a dining hall for a party but, I enjoy my time with my friends.

only 1 of them is gay, and he's my ex!

I didn't pick and choose for it to be this way, I've met plenty of Gay people, they just haven't stuck around, no one is interested in my philosophical rants