Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread

[Reek]

No Book Discussion

I feel like the 'book readers' thread has become this, so may as well make one so some people don't foolishly get spoiled by....being foolish enough to venture to the book readers thread.

"Get up, blind girl!"

"I can't see!"

 

[DigificWriter]

People were complaining about the Dorne stuff in the "Book Readers" thread, but putting aside the idea that it's bad because it's not like the book, I was wondering what, exactly, about it doesn't work for people.

Can somebody give me an answer?

 

[Reek]

The simplest answer... It's poorly written and executed.

Oberyn was awesome in season 4... and nothing about Dorne or the Sand Snakes resembles that.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Please elaborate.

What about the storyline has been "poorly written and executed"?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It makes no sense. In memory of the man who would never harm someone he considered innocent, they murdered a young girl and his family. The Sand Snakes can't act all that well, or are given awful dialogue, take your point.

So what we have is bad writing, bad acting, that does not fit with the story we were told in season 4. I don't think this is complicated at all really.

 

[dude stannis]

I've seen better acting in the porn Greens makes.

 

[DigificWriter]

Ellaria and the Sand Snakes aren't Oberyn, and grief/ambition make people behave in ways that don't match their general temperament.

Oberyn chose to pursue one course of action in order to get what he ultimately wanted, and Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are pursuing another. There's no inconsistency there, just a different approach.

 

[dude stannis]

So how does murdering Oberyn's brother and nephew avenge him? It's entirely antithetical to vengeance.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ They've taken over leadership of Dorne and can now do what Doran wouldn't: go after the Lannisters directly and take them out for what happened to Oberyn.

 

[Reek]

And as important as Oberyn's family is to him... Elia Martell for instance... His own children who completely looked up to him, and his paramour who loved him unconditionally, decided to kill the family he loves dearly?

 

[Reek]

^ They've taken over leadership of Dorne and can now do what Doran wouldn't: go after the Lannisters directly and take them out for what happened to Oberyn.

That's the point... the Lannisters were in no way responsible for how Oberyn died. It was all Oberyn's choice/fault.

 

[dude stannis]

Oberyn's daughters are illegitimate and Ellaria was his **** buddy. Nobody runs Dorne now.

 

[DigificWriter]

Just because you're doing something in the name of someone doesn't mean you have to handle things the way that the person in whose name you're acting would have.

 

[DigificWriter]

That's the point... the Lannisters were in no way responsible for how Oberyn died. It was all Oberyn's choice/fault.

Ellaria and the Sand Snakes believe otherwise, as established last season.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ellaria and the Sand Snakes aren't Oberyn, and grief/ambition make people behave in ways that don't match their general temperament.

Oberyn chose to pursue one course of action in order to get what he ultimately wanted, and Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are pursuing another. There's no inconsistency there, just a different approach.

It is clearly inconsistent, because we are talking about Oberyn's paramour and his kids. Do you think he made really stupid decisions in his relationships or something? That he was an awful choice of character?

So either Oberyn is really dumb (and not heat of the moment avenging sister dumb), or they were good at hiding being evil. Both are really, really stupid. Because no one thinks killing family is a good idea. Well, except for Cersei and we all know how horrible of a human being she is.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ellaria and the Sand Snakes believe otherwise, as established last season.

Yes, because it is horribly written. Do you think the bad Dorne writing started this season? Because no one here thinks so.

 

[Reek]

Ellaria and the Sand Snakes believe otherwise, as established last season.

Which is adding to my point... the writing and execution is terribly done.

How could Ellaria believe otherwise when Oberyn chose to fight the mountain? How are the Lannisters blamed for him choosing to be Tyrions champion?

He chose to fight the mountain. Chose to act like an idiot. and got himself killed because he was showboating/celebrating a fight he had not yet won.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Which is adding to my point... the writing and execution is terribly done.

How could Ellaria believe in otherwise when Oberyn chose to fight the mountain? How are the Lannisters blamed for him choosing to be Tyrions champion?

He chose to fight the mountain. Chose to act like an idiot. and got himself killed because he was showboating/celebrating a fight he had not yet won.

Oberyn has the justification of "heat of the moment". We all know what the Mountain did. He let his romantic blood get the better of him. He wanted the confession, to stain Tywin. Oberyn died what he always was, a romantic.

Ellaria and the kids are doing this crap for ****s and giggles. They have no real point.

 

[DigificWriter]

Oberyn's daughters are illegitimate and Ellaria was his **** buddy. Nobody runs Dorne now.

Coups like the one Ellaria and the Sand Snakes have mounted happened all the time in the Medieval period from which ASoFaI/GoT is heavily derived.

@Reek: Just because you disagree with the motivations the writers have given Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, it doesn't mean that said motivations equal "bad writing".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Coups like the one Ellaria and the Sand Snakes have mounted happened all the time in the Medieval period from which ASoFaI/GoT is heavily derived.

@Reek: Just because you disagree with the motivations the writers have given Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, it doesn't mean that said motivations equal "bad writing".

Could you give me some explains of when illegitimate females had coups in their honor?

 

[Reek]

@Reek: Just because you disagree with the motivations the writers have given Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, it doesn't mean that said motivations equal "bad writing".

Don't single me out as if I'm the only one who thinks this lol

If you think lines like "you want the good girl, but need the bad p****" are good pieces of dialogue... have at it, man...

It's more than the dialogue, too... someone go ahead and post the ridiculous fight scene.

Dorne, as a whole, is a poorly executed sequence throughout season 5 and now 6. You asked for answers as to why we think these things... we gave them to you.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'll have to do a search for specific examples, but I know that there were scenarios during the Medieval period in which people with no authority killed people who had authority and then assumed said authority themselves.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, at least Bronn sang The Dorishman's Wife. I will always have that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'll have to do a search for specific examples, but I know that there were scenarios in which people with no authority killed people who had authority and then assumed said authority themselves.

Of course. We see that all the time on GoT. But you notice it is always a question of legitimacy? Like Robert had a tiny bit of Targaryen blood, so he got the claim. They had to kill off all the heirs to Robert for Joffrey.

 

[DigificWriter]

DarthSkywalker: In our own Medieval history, I know there are scenarios where authority was assumed and wielded completely in the absence of "legitimacy".