*gasp*

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

and stay out of our way? Some people have standards and want quality over quantity my friend.

STOP IT!

 

[LastSunrise1981]

STOP IT!

I said what I said to X-Maniac, don't like it? Oh well.

I'm not going to back down on my position because my words hurts your feelings or hurts X-Maniacs feelings. I'm not going to back down because some regular joe on the Message Board wants me to shut up, get over it, and not voice my contempt over X3.

 

[X-Maniac]

I said what I said to X-Maniac, don't like it? Oh well.

I'm not going to back down on my position because my words hurts your feelings or hurts X-Maniacs feelings. I'm not going to back down because some regular joe on the Message Board wants me to shut up, get over it, and not voice my contempt over X3.

It's simple really - you keep bringing up my name, misquoting me, maligning me and misrepresenting what I said. That's the problem.

Discussion of the movie is no problem and there are obviously strongly opposing views on here.

But if you keep mentioning me in an inaccurate way, then I am bound to respond.

I'm not asking you to 'shut up', I'm asking you to stop dragging my name into every post and saying I said things i didn't say. That seems a very fair request, and the least I should expect from you.

 

[danoyse]

You love the movie? Great, that's really wonderful. What isn't acceptable is posters like you who tell us what we should or shouldn't do regarding this movie.

No one is telling you that. Everyone is telling you act like an adult and actually post an opinion without questioning the taste and standards of everyone else in regards to your alleged superior opinion.

Do you really think you look like the victim here?

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

All right, I've actually had enough. LastSunrise, cut this ****. Seriously, it's just pissing me the hell off. Of late, I thought you'd started being reasonable, and actually a decent person, but it's clear to me know that you're actually just being a whiny prick just for the hell of it. Stop being an *******, because we're all tired of it, and we can't take it anymore. We like the movie. You don't. We can debate all you want, but not before you severely change your attitude, because I've had enough, and I know I'm not the only one. Grow the hell up.

EDIT: Great, I wasted my 900th post on that.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

No one is telling you that. Everyone is telling you act like an adult and actually post an opinion without questioning the taste and standards of everyone else in regards to your alleged superior opinion.

Do you really think you look like the victim here?

Who said anything about being a victim? I'm just merely stating a fact about the Brotherhood of Loyalists on this particular forum. You try to be nice and you voice your opinion, and it's posters like you, X-Maniac, and countless others who get upset with those who voice their displeasure of this film.

I am a reasonable guy and I don't mind debates at all. I do not, however, appreciate people who expect others to sit down, shut up, and not question the mindset of certain studio corporations that ruin great concepts.

Bottom line? I'm tired of being the one sitting back and not letting my voice be heard. Again, you don't like what I have to say? Then so be it. It doesn't change my opinion of you, X-Maniac, or WeatherWitch at all.

 

[danoyse]

Who said anything about being a victim? I'm just merely stating a fact about the Brotherhood of Loyalists on this particular forum. You try to be nice and you voice your opinion, and it's posters like you, X-Maniac, and countless others who get upset with those who voice their displeasure of this film.

I am a reasonable guy and I don't mind debates at all. I do not, however, appreciate people who expect others to sit down, shut up, and not question the mindset of certain studio corporations that ruin great concepts.

Bottom line? I'm tired of being the one sitting back and not letting my voice be heard. Again, you don't like what I have to say? Then so be it. It doesn't change my opinion of you, X-Maniac, or WeatherWitch at all.

You have let your voice be heard everywhere you can. You have yet to have a point, other than blaming everyone and their grandmother for your displeasure over the movie.

You are NOT reasonable. Reasonable people do not use terms like "Brotherhood of Loyalists." If that's your new label for the people who had the audacity to like the movie, it's just as immature, stupid, and pointless as nearly other baseless accusation and lie you've tossed at people around here. And I think everyone is really sick of it.

Guess what? We didn't make X3. We didn't tell you it was going to be the best movie ever. We don't care anymore that you plan to stomp your feet and hold your breath until the make a new movie that suits you. In fact, we're pretty confident that it won't ever happen.

Like any other child throwing a tantrum, we'll just let you scream it out until you get it out of your system, and no, our feelings aren't being hurt by any of it.

It's not our fault you feel robbed. That's YOUR fault. You bought every marketing ploy hook, line, and sinker...and you want to blame your gullibilty on us like we're the ones who told you these things.

So please, save your rantings for someone who cares. Good luck finding anyone else who does by now.

Hopefully this thread will be put out of it's mercy soon enough.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

You have let your voice be heard everywhere you can. You have yet to have a point, other than blaming everyone and their grandmother for your displeasure over the movie.

You are NOT reasonable. Reasonable people do not use terms like "Brotherhood of Loyalists." If that's your new label for the people who had the audacity to like the movie, it's just as immature, stupid, and pointless as nearly other baseless accusation and lie you've tossed at people around here. And I think everyone is really sick of it.

Guess what? We didn't make X3. We didn't tell you it was going to be the best movie ever. We don't care anymore that you plan to stomp your feet and hold your breath until the make a new movie that suits you. In fact, we're pretty confident that it won't ever happen.

Like any other child throwing a tantrum, we'll just let you scream it out until you get it out of your system, and no, our feelings aren't being hurt by any of it.

It's not our fault you feel robbed. That's YOUR fault. You bought every marketing ploy hook, line, and sinker...and you want to blame your gullibilty on us like we're the ones who told you these things.

So please, save your rantings for someone who cares. Good luck finding anyone else who does by now.

Hopefully this thread will be put out of it's mercy soon enough.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

You have let your voice be heard everywhere you can. You have yet to have a point, other than blaming everyone and their grandmother for your displeasure over the movie.

You are NOT reasonable. Reasonable people do not use terms like "Brotherhood of Loyalists." If that's your new label for the people who had the audacity to like the movie, it's just as immature, stupid, and pointless as nearly other baseless accusation and lie you've tossed at people around here. And I think everyone is really sick of it.

Guess what? We didn't make X3. We didn't tell you it was going to be the best movie ever. We don't care anymore that you plan to stomp your feet and hold your breath until the make a new movie that suits you. In fact, we're pretty confident that it won't ever happen.

Like any other child throwing a tantrum, we'll just let you scream it out until you get it out of your system, and no, our feelings aren't being hurt by any of it.

It's not our fault you feel robbed. That's YOUR fault. You bought every marketing ploy hook, line, and sinker...and you want to blame your gullibilty on us like we're the ones who told you these things.

So please, save your rantings for someone who cares. Good luck finding anyone else who does by now.

Hopefully this thread will be put out of it's mercy soon enough.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

That was so witty and clever and original that it deserved two posts.

 

[danoyse]

Hey, if that's all he could come up with (again), he's clearly run out of comebacks.

 

[The Ones]

What you are mad at is that the box office takings did not teach Fox the lesson you had hoped for. You wanted a flop, you didn't get it. You wanted everything to fail. Well, if it had, you still wouldn't get any more X-movies, they'd just give up on the idea.

At least though you are thinking about what the mainstream general public would think, and that's good. They wouldn't accept a remake of X3 (which would never ever ever ever get done, that is total fantasy). They might accept other X-movies in the future.

The movies haven't been perfect from Day 1. They have always been a big-screen VERSION or REPRESENTATION of the comicbooks, not a carbon copy. Many characters have varied from the source material, in the casting, the acting, the storylines, the characterisation. In the movies, Storm has never been an exotic goddess of Masai/Amazon/supermodel stature, Rogue has never been a sassy southern tomboy, Iceman has never been a wisecracking member of the original team, Sabretooth has never been a monstrous murderous beast, Magneto has never been a musclebound hunk (his voice was best in the 90s cartoon, i think, i liked the European inflections). Deathstrike was a mindless drone who had her best moments and died all in the space of five minutes with no reference to Wolverine's past, Mastermind (a key player in the Phoenix saga) was instead wasted as wheelchair-bound Jason, Stryker's key comicbook role as a churchman who saw mutation as against God's order was scrapped for him to become a scientist who helped create Wolverine. Changes, changes, everywhere you look.

X3 did continue the stories set up (Magneto's war, the return of Jean, in particular), it just didn't do what you wanted. What you and many others wanted was simply a Jean/Scott love story with no Wolverine (because you hate him stealing Cyclops role), no Storm (because you hate Halle), no Angel (because you think he was a waste of time), no Beast (because you think his role was wasted or you hate Kelsey or cannot disconnect your brain from Frasier), no Danger Room, no mutant cameos... in fact nothing much of anything except Scott and Jean in this narrow confined world where we have a handful of mutants.

But that wasn't going to happen. Jackman shone as Wolverine and the character was favoured by Bryan himself (who as an adopted child related to Wolverine's mystery background) and by Schuler-Donner; Storm is needed for diversity (even though she has yet to be truly 'nailed', especially in X1 where Bryan Singer had her scared of humans... when she was once worshipped by humans!); Angel and Beast have been crying out for inclusion in this series since the beginning, as has the Danger Room; and we did need to see a more global picture of these mutants - and we did: we were told of Magneto's movements in Lisbon, Geneva, Montreal, we saw an underground Omega Mutants movement of outcasts shunned by society, we saw mutants in line at the clinic, we finally got to see how many there are out there in society rather than everything being confined to a few people in a mansion.

Jean and Cyclops' love story was not given proper service - very few people will deny that - but it was never going to be the main thrust of the story. The return of Jean was woven quite well into the main 'cure/war' story where she became a cross between the Hellfire Club's Black Queen, the Scarlet Witch and Dark Phoenix. Yes, no firebird and a lot of standing and staring... that could have been improved, though only fans will truly be aware of that.

You need to face facts that a Wolverine movie will be made - and hopefully will be chance to see a few more mutants who haven't yet made it on screen. And while there may not be an X4 (unless the Wolverine movie becomes that), I reckon the Magneto movie itself may morph into an 'X-Men Begins' featuring younger versions (maybe better versions) of key characters.

In the meantime, it will be interesting to see fanfics that show people's alternative ideas of an X3 (so I can really see if i prefer what we got) and by all means contact Marvel or Fox or whoever else to express your views.

I dont want to turn this in a a bashing thread, but i have to correct a number of things you are saying.

Firstly, what your saying is that your viewing me as a casual steriotype of a fan. I never wanted X-3 to flop, in fact, i wanted X-3 to be the best of the saga, and with that, I wanted a ton of X-men film's with a continuing story arc and character development. I understand the first 2 movies had changes from the comic book, but it still maintained the character mythos and story arcs. No significant changes were made that cant be justified.

The first 2 films did feature alot of Wolverine, but at least the entire story wasn't about him. We still had a chance for other characters to get expanded on and to feel for them. Wolverines story arc was completed in X-2. But pointlessly ressurrected in X-3. This time he is now a hard core bully who has joined with Storm, who's role has been amped up also, who butt in and push people out of the way of the camera in a "hey look at me" way.

I understand that X-3 had changes from the comic like the first 2, but to deny the Jean/Scott love story within the Phoenix saga is blasphemy. Also X-3 changes things from the first 2 movies, including character changes (e.g: Xavier progressing from a loving, caring mentor to being a lying S.O.B who is jealous, Storm progressing from a team mate who cares about her other team mates and friends, turns into a ***** who calls people a coward just because they want the cure.) and changing the entire plot (i X-2 Jean became the phoenix through evolution....in X-3 its mind blocks). Characters were stuffed in to shut up fans, like angel, psyloke, etc. But they never did anything with them.

I could continue but i have to go.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

LastSunrise, if you got your feelings hurt so much over a movie, then maybe that's YOUR problem, not our's, not Ratner's, not Rothman's...

That's your own damn fault for taking a movie so god damned seriously.

 

[swifty]

I don't know why all the hate for X-3 but I know I loved it and saw it 5 times, can't wait for the 2disc DVD.

 

[X-Maniac]

Firstly, what your saying is that your viewing me as a casual steriotype of a fan. I never wanted X-3 to flop, in fact, i wanted X-3 to be the best of the saga, and with that, I wanted a ton of X-men film's with a continuing story arc and character development.

What I meant was that, when you saw X3 and disliked it, I bet you had wished it had been a flop - to send a message to Fox that the film wasn’t good enough.

‘A ton of X-Men films’ is not a practical idea. There’s a huge cast that needs to be brought back each time (some of them big stars with big salary demands and other movie projects in the pipeline), and the cast would be getting larger each time with new characters added in. It’s obvious that some characters would have to be sidelined or taken out of the mix for the movies to continue (perhaps part of the reason for deaths/absences)

I understand the first 2 movies had changes from the comic book, but it still maintained the character mythos and story arcs. No significant changes were made that cant be justified.

You may feel they were justified, others would question some of the changes. A Storm who tells Kelly she is scared of humans... a woman who can summon lightning, tornadoes, who was once worshipped (and herself feared possibly). The Storm fear factor continued into X2 when she said the school was a place they could be safe from everyone else. There have been frustrations on here over Rogue, Sabretooth and others too. However, despite these things, I enjoyed the movies - all of them have disappointments.

The first 2 films did feature alot of Wolverine, but at least the entire story wasn't about him. We still had a chance for other characters to get expanded on and to feel for them. Wolverines story arc was completed in X-2. But pointlessly ressurrected in X-3. This time he is now a hard core bully who has joined with Storm, who's role has been amped up also, who butt in and push people out of the way of the camera in a "hey look at me" way.

Wolverine was the central character in X1 and X2. X1 was told through his eyes, in X2 the Stryker plot connected directly with Wolverine’s past. Meanwhile we found out nothing about the past of the actual X-Men he had met in X1 (Storm, Jean, Cyclops) - why were they at that school, where did they come from?) In X3, the focus did shift from him being the central thrust (no more looking into his past) and instead we got a look at other characters. I wouldn’t say he was a bully (the scene with him crying at the wheelchair is questionable in making him too much of a softie), Storm was generally fine except for her lack of compassion with Rogue (it made her a little too harsh, i thought). She lacked any sisterly concern for Jean or connection with the X-students but she lacked that in the first two movies.

I understand that X-3 had changes from the comic like the first 2, but to deny the Jean/Scott love story within the Phoenix saga is blasphemy.

Blasphemy, no. A disappointment, yes. A bad studio decision, yes. Does it make a crap movie - personal opinion...

Also X-3 changes things from the first 2 movies, including character changes (e.g: Xavier progressing from a loving, caring mentor to being a lying S.O.B who is jealous, Storm progressing from a team mate who cares about her other team mates and friends, turns into a ***** who calls people a coward just because they want the cure.) and changing the entire plot (i X-2 Jean became the phoenix through evolution....in X-3 its mind blocks). Characters were stuffed in to shut up fans, like angel, psyloke, etc. But they never did anything with them.

Xavier was seen to be more deceitful in X2 when it was revealed he had known about Wolverine’s past (Magneto tells Logan this at the campfire). I didn’t mind him not being a total ‘goody-two-shoes’ - he seemed to have reasons for doing what he did, it wasn’t shown as jealousy or malice, but an overly protective form of control-freak behaviour.
Storm - see the above paragraph. Mind blocks is feasible, to me - it doesn’t have to have been hinted at before for it to be possible. (You could easily take X3’s mental blocks and then look back at the prior movies to say ‘Oh that’s why she was so weak in X1, that’s why she was getting stronger in X2 and something was happening with the headaches etc, her mind was blocked and the blocks were breaking down&#8217. I agree there could have been slightly better execution of the idea to connect it with Magneto’s machine and Jean’s/Xavier’s behaviour in X2, maybe Xavier putting blocks on after a Dark Phoenix outburst to save her (like the comicbook psi-battle). that’s one alternative

 

[Mike059jig]

edit

 

[X-Maniac]

Why did you edit that Mike? I was just about to respond:

I believe the focus most certainly did shift from Logan - he may still have been prominent but the story wasn’t all about him. He also didn’t become leader in any official sense. He may have acted with authority at times, but was he ever actually the team leader?

Storm had no sisterly interaction in the first movies that I can recall - please give examples of scenes and dialogue that show a sisterly relationship, Being in front of the camera at the same time in the same scene does not qualify as sisterly. There was never any warmth or love shown between these two characters. Even the deleted scene of them on the X-jet doesn’t really show any evidence of bonding - laughing together, caring about each other, talking about their problems etc.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

LastSunrise, if you got your feelings hurt so much over a movie, then maybe that's YOUR problem, not our's, not Ratner's, not Rothman's...

That's your own damn fault for taking a movie so god damned seriously.

So says the person who has how many times they've seen X3 under their name.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Hey, if that's all he could come up with (again), he's clearly run out of comebacks.

I'm just telling your Brothers of the Brotherhood of Loyalists to stop whining about those who dislike this movie.

Nell has a Zakk Penn mentality.

X-Maniac has a Simon Kinberg mentality and expects people to shut up and move on.

And you, well, you have a Logan fetish that makes you the ultimate loyalist. Anytime anyone dares to speak against him or speak against the film, you get defensive and whine about those mean detractors.

If I were you I'd look in the mirror before I put down anyone.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm just telling your Brothers of the Brotherhood of Loyalists to stop whining about those who dislike this movie.

Nell has a Zakk Penn mentality.

X-Maniac has a Simon Kinberg mentality and expects people to shut up and move on.

And you, well, you have a Logan fetish that makes you the ultimate loyalist. Anytime anyone dares to speak against him or speak against the film, you get defensive and whine about those mean detractors.

If I were you I'd look in the mirror before I put down anyone.

Hmm... I think I have my own 'mentality' - which is that I enjoyed the film, despite its disappointments and flaws, as with the first two X-movies. There are things to be done to get more and/or better movies and I'm doing those too. They do not involve having permanent PMS on a fan forum

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

LastSunrise, you call us "desperate", but we're not the ones slinging insults around.

Your act is getting really old, really fast.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

LastSunrise, you call us "desperate", but we're not the ones slinging insults around.

Your act is getting really old, really fast.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm just telling your Brothers of the Brotherhood of Loyalists to stop whining about those who dislike this movie.

Nell has a Zakk Penn mentality.

X-Maniac has a Simon Kinberg mentality and expects people to shut up and move on.

And you, well, you have a Logan fetish that makes you the ultimate loyalist. Anytime anyone dares to speak against him or speak against the film, you get defensive and whine about those mean detractors.

If I were you I'd look in the mirror before I put down anyone.

^ You're the one whining bro, not me. ^

But, it's nice to finally see your real maturity level.

You can't come up with an intelligent debate, so you resort to childish remarks and name calling.

I thought you were better than that. I guess I was wrong.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

^ You're the one whining bro, not me. ^

But, it's nice to finally see your real maturity level.

You can't come up with an intelligent debate, so you resort to childish remarks and name calling.

I thought you were better than that. I guess I was wrong.

Oh stop being such a drama queen.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Oh stop being such a drama queen.

You're not the one to talk, Mr. "Brotherhood of Loyalists"....