Geoff Johns, is he DC Films New Hope?

[SM_experiment]

I used to like Snyder's visuals, but they've grown old for me. I found the visuals in MOS, Watchmen and 300 stunning, and while Sucker Punch is a HORRIBLE movie, it does look pretty good. But I found BvS to be an incredibly ugly film. A lot of it just looked cartoonish and fake, and scenes that should have been colorful and vibrant were dull and washed out. It's very telling that the TURKISH AIRLINE COMMERCIALS that were done to promote BvS looked better than the movie itself.

I've said this several times before, but it almost feels like Snyder got pissed off at fans for complaining about the dark elements in MOS (some of those complaints, I think, were overblown) and so he doubled down on that in BvS, making the darkest, ugliest movie he could. And while the JL movie seems to have more humor than BvS, it still maintains that dark aesthetic, set in a world where sunlight apparently doesn't exist. But, to be fair, we haven't seen more than a couple scenes.

But the problem with him is that he is completely incompetent as a cinematographer. While some of his movies have "good visuals" I will bet money that most of those are almost stills. He utilises slow motion because he sucks at regular motion. His camera does not move. In both Watchmen and 300 the visuals are lifted from the comic and incompetently staged for film. Those visuals are much much better in their original mediium. The same reason why the cinematography fails in bvS, he is utterly useless at motion, he is kinda a good photographer but fails to understand cinematography which is about motion and light (another subject he has always shown himself incompetent at). Compare the cinematography in the original Dawn of Dead to his remake. The reason he must make zombies fast is because otherwise he cannot show motion while George Romero is a good filmmaker who can utilize the slow moving zombies while creating tension. MoS is almost his best movie because in it he tries to capture motion but it ends up being ruined by the shoddy shaky cam and incomprehensible editing during the fight scenes. When people claim BvS is like a living comic book (I do not agree with this at all), they mistakingly showcases exactly why it from a cinematographic perspective fails because it looks like still images smashing into each other with no fluidity, connection or purpose.

 

[Lantern Venom]

You say that but he's credited as co-producer of the movie. He was there at Comic-Con in 2010 and was asserting a great deal of ownership over the film while he was there. and he was clearly involved to some degree. Not to mention he was still constantly championing the project and campaigning for a sequel long after it released and essentially failed.

WB was clearly using some of his concepts, but the story didn't unfold at all like Secret Origin, which is the only GJ story that he ever said was in the planning mix. It reeked of Hollywood archetypes and cliches. There was also a GL 2 script which used the Sinestro Corps, A GJ concept, but he also had no writing credit for it.

 

[STARMAN]

I'm going to look at WW to start evaluating Geoff Johns in the DCEU

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Hope in DC is very promiscuous isn't she? She latches onto a different man after a while.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

From El Mayimbe at The Wrap

Here is the kicker: Geoff Johns was recruited by the filmmakers themselves to work on these movies, according to sources close to the studio, and didn’t pitch or assign himself to the projects.

The fact that three different filmmakers asked for Johns’ input should speak volumes for fans since a comics-savvy guy will play a critical role in shaping the upcoming DC movies — even if he’s arriving too late to influence this year’s two projects, which have taken a drubbing from critics.

So before fanboys hit the panic button, the studio is giving Johns the opportunity to emerge as the fan-centric playmaker who can successfully go on offense and create a Marvel-style shared universe for Warner.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Geoff Johns on DCEU in recent interview

Mistakenly in the past I think the studio has said, ‘Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that’s what makes them different.’ That couldn’t be more wrong,” said Mr. Johns, who has written comic books featuring most of the company’s top superheroes. “It’s a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn’t think he’d make tomorrow better, he’d stop.”

 

[writer0327]

Geoff Johns on DCEU in recent interview

Mistakenly in the past I think the studio has said, ‘Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that’s what makes them different.’ That couldn’t be more wrong,” said Mr. Johns, who has written comic books featuring most of the company’s top superheroes. “It’s a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn’t think he’d make tomorrow better, he’d stop.”

I think we all knew this was coming.

 

[writer0327]

Edit

 

[TheVileOne]

Eh we'll see. This could easily backfire on them too. To me it's not just about hope and optimism. It's the planning. It's the narrative. It's the direction, and the writing. Also, maybe a change of leadership is required elsewhere as well?

 

[jmc]

TheVileOne is correct. It's the planing and the leadership that is the issue. The tone frankly is the least of their problems, this series has done nothing but make stuff up as it goes as it goes along. This bit from that WSJ article sums it all up for me re Justice League:

“n the past, I think the studio has said, ‘Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that’s what makes them different.’ That couldn’t be more wrong,” Johns told The Wall Street Journal. “It’s a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn’t think he’d make tomorrow better, he’d stop.”

The pair admitted many of those changes are first going to be first seen in Zack Snyder’s Justice League, which is almost done filming for a November 2017 release. Berg admitted after seeing the reactions to Batman v Superman, they “accelerated the [Justice League] story to get to the hope and optimism a little faster.”

That film will also “directly address Batman’s extreme actions in [Batman v Superman], such as torturing criminals and nearly killing the Man of Steel, rather than accept them as par for the course.” That’s similar to what happened in Batman v Superman, which addressed Superman’s inadvertent destruction of the city of Metropolis during Man of Steel for its first act.

It's just an endless cycle of trying to make course corrections to make things more positive whilst also trying to fix and justify what happened in the previous movies. It's just a ridiculous way to make a movie series, trying to fix everything with the next film.

 

[Boom]

Encouraging words and all, but I am firmly planted in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp. Suicide Squad really pissed me off with how ****ing terrible it was. I was completely dumbstruck.

Let's start by making ONE roundly competent film, before anything else. How's that for an idea.

 

[writer0327]

TheVileOne is correct. It's the planing and the leadership that is the issue. The tone frankly is the least of their problems, this series has done nothing but make stuff up as it goes as it goes along. This bit from that WSJ article sums it all up for me re Justice League:



It's just an endless cycle of trying to make course corrections to make things more positive whilst also trying to fix and justify what happened in the previous movies. It's just a ridiculous way to make a movie series, trying to fix everything with the next film.

I feel the same way. Why not just have a solid game plan from the beginning? Why does it feel like they are wandering aimlessly, hoping good things will happen? And what if this latest correction doesn't work? Then what?

 

[jmc]

I feel the same way. Why not just have a solid game plan from the beginning? Why does it feel like they are wandering aimlessly, hoping good things will happen? And what if this latest correction doesn't work? Then what?

The bigger issue for me is them having to address things from the last film. IMO they are better off moving on from the last movie once it's released. You're never going to be focused on the current and future movies if you've still got one foot stuck in the last movie.

 

[Abudefduf]

That film will also “directly address Batman’s extreme actions in [Batman v Superman], such as torturing criminals and nearly killing the Man of Steel, rather than accept them as par for the course.”

Please don't. That way we can at least pretend it never happened.
I don't want you to address past mistakes, I want you to stop making them. Just focus on moving the series forward and from now on, sin no more. :jesus:

 

[Luke234]

I'm bummed. I'm not paying for Marvel type humor, talking freaking animals, etc. Address Batman killing??? Who couldn't follow along with the narrative? Ugh. This sucks. They were earning the optimism and would have had it in the future. Everyone has to have everything right away. If it's not marvel like it sucks. So stupid. Johns is gonna destroy this.

 

[Boom]

Optimism has to be earned?

 

[OutOfBoose]

After Suicide Squad I'm totally in "wait and see" mode.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm not a big fan of Johns, and I'm not yet convinced they've figured out how to "fix" things, but I do like the things he's saying here.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

The tone is not the problem (at least not the only one), the problem is they are hunting their own tail, always reacting, course correcting all the time. and they went into the project without a clear vision and they still don't have one.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm really concerned about the decisions being made in the editing room. It's not just about tone.

 

[MadVillainy]

I'm not a big fan of Johns, and I'm not yet convinced they've figured out how to "fix" things, but I do like the things he's saying here.

same stance I have.

I want these DCEU films to be good. I hope Johns is the man to do it and he's saying the right things. But action speak louder than words

I'm really concerned about the decisions being made in the editing room. It's not just about tone.

I think (read: hope) that they wont have editing room issues again. The BvS editing was due to poor decision making about making a 3 hr cut and the with SS it was reactionary to the BvS stuff.
I think with WW and JL they are able to tell the story they want to tell more or less without having to cut them down in order to react.

Again that's what I think (hope)

 

[TheVileOne]

But I mean for Man of Steel, the editor talked about assembling like a three and a half hour cut. I don't even know how that's possible. Unless they are filming Lord of the Rings or freaking Dune.

Batman v Superman's editor, David Brenner, said the cut for Batman v Superman "with absolutely everything" was four hours.

IMHO that's insane. Because that means they are cutting out 90 minutes and they expected that would be fine for a 2 hour 30 minute movie. Instead it made the theatrical cut a roughshod mess.

And this is what they get for trying to introduce Batman, Wonder Woman, Lex Luthor, Doomsday, and the REST OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE all into one movie.

They should've at the very least rebooted Batman first. You want to show Batman going to a dark and extreme place? Maybe they should've showed how that happened to us. Now maybe it wouldn't have worked, but at least it could've given the audience a better establishment of this DCEU and gotten us to care more about the dark path Batman was going down.

 

[flickchick85]

That's just further evidence their real problem isn't in the editing rooms, it's at the scripting stage. The editing room is just where it boils back up to the surface.

 

[TheVileOne]

flickchick85, it's obviously a problem if the editing went as THR reported for Suicide Squad. THR claimed the original editor had left the production by the time the film was nearly finished.

And it's a problem if they are cutting so much that we are left with a final product like Batman v Superman that is so long but the whole plot is just messy and disjointed and characters like Superman feel marginalized.

 

[Wildcard]

Still, if the script is garbage, of course those problems will reverberate through the editing process. Cause meet effect.