Geoff Johns, is he DC Films New Hope?

Are you optimistic about Geoff Johns's new presence in DC Films?

  • Yes, I'm optomistic for the future post Suicide Squad

  • Nope I've abondened all hope, reboot the whole thing

  • Wait and see


Results are only viewable after voting.
My point is, they shouldn't have HAD that much to cut in the first place. The script was obviously bloated as hell. And SS clearly had identity problems from the ground up. The editing room is just where these issues are becoming apparent.
 
Except the Ultimate Edition of Batman v Superman while I wouldn't call it a great film, fixes a lot of the plot holes and cohesion issues at least in the film.

And now everyone's expecting that Johns will be the savior and right this ship. I just dunno. Sounds a lot like hope and optimism.
 
They just need that first good film. Hell, they just need that first decent film. A film entirely without controversy. This universe is never going to take off and live up to any kind of potential if the studio is constantly having to react. If they can just make one decent movie, that should hopefully get them out from behind the eight ball. Having to course-correct with each film is going to burn this thing out good and fast.
 
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I mean it's a good point. Even Marvel Studios while it started strong with Iron Man, didn't hit out of the park with Incredible Hulk, which was a disappointment. But everything worked out well enough that they could keep doing what they are doing.
 
The tone is not the problem (at least not the only one), the problem is they are hunting their own tail, always reacting, course correcting all the time. and they went into the project without a clear vision and they still don't have one.

This is the problem.

I remember when they announced the big slate of titles and release dates, a little after BvS had been announced. I got excited for about a day, but then I started thinking..."Is this just a half-baked attempt to ride the rising tide of comic book films before it's too late? Is this an attempt to catch up to Marvel, already well into Phase 2, when they have barely sniffed their Phase 1?"

It's starting to look like it.

A cinematic universe using multiple, well-known characters, involving different actors, writers, directors, producers, and other creative minds is a huge undertaking. The amount of pre-planning, forethought, and cohesion to pull off such a task cannot be understated. And when you start hearing stuff like the Suicide Squad script was written in 6 weeks, and then BvS seems to go out of its way to make amends for the destruction in MoS ("Don't worry, that island is complete uninhabited"...nudge nudge wink wink...) and Suicide Squad had to go back for reshoots to "lighten the tone"....maybe those are all rumors or whatever, but it's starting to feel like I'm playing cards at the kids' table instead of with the adults.

If there was a plan and they are just speeding it along to get to the good stuff....eh, I guess. But all this wishy-washiness sure doesn't give me a great feeling of confidence.
 
I mean it's a good point. Even Marvel Studios while it started strong with Iron Man, didn't hit out of the park with Incredible Hulk, which was a disappointment. But everything worked out well enough that they could keep doing what they are doing.

That's a good point because even as disappointing as TIH was, it was still well received as far as reviews went and it helped push the universe forward without having to go back and fix and correct some glaring problems.
 
same stance I have.

I want these DCEU films to be good. I hope Johns is the man to do it and he's saying the right things. But action speak louder than words



I think (read: hope) that they wont have editing room issues again. The BvS editing was due to poor decision making about making a 3 hr cut and the with SS it was reactionary to the BvS stuff.
I think with WW and JL they are able to tell the story they want to tell more or less without having to cut them down in order to react.

Again that's what I think (hope)

Everybody is making good points here. I agree with most things being said. Good points.
 
But I mean for Man of Steel, the editor talked about assembling like a three and a half hour cut. I don't even know how that's possible. Unless they are filming Lord of the Rings or freaking Dune.

Batman v Superman's editor, David Brenner, said the cut for Batman v Superman "with absolutely everything" was four hours.

IMHO that's insane. Because that means they are cutting out 90 minutes and they expected that would be fine for a 2 hour 30 minute movie. Instead it made the theatrical cut a roughshod mess.

And this is what they get for trying to introduce Batman, Wonder Woman, Lex Luthor, Doomsday, and the REST OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE all into one movie.

They should've at the very least rebooted Batman first. You want to show Batman going to a dark and extreme place? Maybe they should've showed how that happened to us. Now maybe it wouldn't have worked, but at least it could've given the audience a better establishment of this DCEU and gotten us to care more about the dark path Batman was going down.

Yeah, these bloated original cuts are insane. Where is the control. It was a frat house where everyone just ran around and did whatever they wanted regardless of the consequences. Testosterone level set to max. Then when the crap hits the fan, panic. Is Johns the right guy? I don't know. Snyder is still there and who knows who has the influence with what's going on. I guess time will tell.
 
Here is what I wrote about Geoff Johns in another forum. Seems relevant here:

Here's an honest question. Is Geoff Johns really the guy to right the ship and get this all under control? Can he truly be DCEU's Feige?

Now I will tell you, 10 years ago, Johns was one of my favorite writers on the planet. I loved his Green Lantern and Avengers comics. Then I think after Sinestro Corp War is when I think Johns' writing started to take a decline in quality.

I thought New 52 Justice League was really badly written. Also the return of Barry Allen and what it did to Wally West was pretty terrible. I stand by that too.

Johns has had a significant role in DC Entertainment. He was clearly creatively involved in the Green Lantern movie, and that did not turn out well.

So I ask you all, should we really be excited that Johns is in a new creative role to have certain control over all these movies?

When these films get in the editing room, will he really make sure there is a clear singular voice and these movies don't come out to be a disjointed mess when they hit theaters?
Vile one, Geoff Johns is a great comic writer, His GL run was one of the best ever. Also, JSA, Hawkman and Avengers. But really, I wonder if his talents might be better served writing a new GL movie. It's like the difference between Phil Jackson coaching the Lakers and Bulls, and being the Knicks General Manager. At the very least, he needs to hire a director or two besides Snyder. I do still have some faith in him though.
 
I just don't see the point in having that much faith in Johns when it's not entirely clear just how much control he has over everything. He might be the head of DC films but does he still have to answer to WB? Does he have the power to hire and fire people? Is he allowed to make creative decisions on the fly? Does he get to set the budgets? These are important questions with this whole thing, that's not even taking into account whether he's actually the right person to be wielding such power if he has it. Feige spent years working with Marvel related films prior to IM and Marvel Studios. John's has what, one movie under his belt as producer? I really get wanting this whole thing to work but people putting all their faith in Johns is just as foolish as when people put all their faith in Snyder for BvS IMO.
 
Here's the thing. I like that they brought in someone with a history of comics to oversee DCEU. However, the man responsible for a divisive MOS, who doubled downed on BvS, has a writing credit for WW and is directing probably THE most important DCEU movie is still around.

I don't think that it's an outrageous idea THAT 2018 maybe when DCEU may pick up.
 
Johns and Berg are the gatekeepers. Nothing gets passed Johns on the creative side while Berg handles the business. These two report directly to Tsujihara. There is not middle man anymore. And Johns isn't "a consultant with no authority" anymore.

People have been *****ing that DCF doesn't have a Fiege or doesn't have a unified vision/direction. Well if it didn't before (which I don't believe, the three year gap between MoS and BvS was when the planning stage of the DCEU took place) it does now.

Firing Zack Snyder won't accomplish anything, but some folks won't be satisfied until it happens. They latched on to a scapegoat and won't let it go. It's freaking mob mentality at it's finest.
 
Johns and Berg are the gatekeepers. Nothing gets passed Johns on the creative side while Berg handles the business. These two report directly to Tsujihara. There is not middle man anymore. And Johns isn't "a consultant with no authority" anymore.

People have been *****ing that DCF doesn't have a Fiege or doesn't have a unified vision/direction. Well if it didn't before (which I don't believe, the three year gap between MoS and BvS was when the planning stage of the DCEU took place) it does now.

Firing Zack Snyder won't accomplish anything, but some folks won't be satisfied until it happens. They latched on to a scapegoat and won't let it go. It's freaking mob mentality at it's finest.

Can you provide a link to that information?
 
I just don't see the point in having that much faith in Johns when it's not entirely clear just how much control he has over everything. He might be the head of DC films but does he still have to answer to WB? Does he have the power to hire and fire people? Is he allowed to make creative decisions on the fly? Does he get to set the budgets? These are important questions with this whole thing, that's not even taking into account whether he's actually the right person to be wielding such power if he has it. Feige spent years working with Marvel related films prior to IM and Marvel Studios. John's has what, one movie under his belt as producer? I really get wanting this whole thing to work but people putting all their faith in Johns is just as foolish as when people put all their faith in Snyder for BvS IMO.

I agree.So much hype and hope on the guy.All pressure is on him now. Using words like optimism and hope in every interview is not enough.
 
I see a scenario where WW could be pretty good but JL being a problem thus killing momentum.
 
What part? The first paragraph? It's been said multiple times in multiple articles since Johns was promoted.

I've not seen it worded in the way you have, so if you can provide a link saying that is now the set up it would be appreciated.
 
I've not seen it worded in the way you have, so if you can provide a link saying that is now the set up it would be appreciated.

There's no link but JKKSO85 posted this on the JL main thread and this happens to be the full article so here you go...

They’re two of the most successful movies of the year, grossing a combined $1.5 billion at the global box office.

“Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” and “Suicide Squad” are also two of the year’s biggest disappointments, met with viciously negative reviews, bitter fans’ complaints and large second-weekend sales drops that indicate word-of-mouth was unkind, to say the least. The Wall Street Journal’s Joe Morgenstern wrote that “Suicide Squad” represented “an all-out attack on the whole idea of entertainment” due to its “exceptional cynicism and startling ineptitude.”

Warner Bros. is responding to this paradox by charging full-speed ahead with plans for its DC “cinematic universe”—while conceding the movies to date have fallen creatively short, a rare public admission in Hollywood.

The studio has reworked the 2017-slated “Justice League” in hopes of making it less grim and depressing than March’s “Batman v Superman.” And it has put fan-favorite comic book and TV writer Geoff Johns in a senior position overseeing the next wave of movies, along with veteran production executive Jon Berg.

One of the duo’s main goals, they said in their first interview since taking the jobs this past spring, is to make DC superheroes on the big screen more inspiring.

“Mistakenly in the past I think the studio has said, ‘Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that’s what makes them different.’ That couldn’t be more wrong,” said Mr. Johns, who has written comic books featuring most of the company’s top superheroes. “It’s a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn’t think he’d make tomorrow better, he’d stop.”

Many have complained that such a sense of optimism was precisely what was missing from ​director Zack Snyder’s “Batman v Superman” and his 2013 Superman reboot “Man of Steel.” Neither Ben Affleck’s Batman nor Henry Cavill’s Superman crack a smile, and both films feature so much death and destruction, including killings perpetrated by the main characters, that bloggers labeled them the “DC cinematic murderverse.”

The shuffle that made DC movies a full-time job for Messrs. Berg and Johns came soon after the public reaction to “Batman v Superman.” Previously, no Warner executives were devoted exclusively to the studio’s superhero films. Mr. Berg worked on them along with other productions, and Mr. Johns was a consultant with no authority.

Their appointments indicate that after giving Mr. Snyder the type of long leash accorded Christopher Nolan on the hit “Dark Knight” Batman trilogy, Warner has concluded it needs to oversee its DC movies more closely.

A spokeswoman for Mr. Snyder said he was unavailable to comment.

There was precedent in comics for Mr. Snyder’s interpretations, particularly Frank Miller’s revered 1986 comic-book miniseries “The Dark Knight Returns,” in which Batman and Superman battle. And director David Ayer’s “Suicide Squad,” though it had significant reshoots and last-minute editing, was never going to be a lighthearted romp, since its source material is about villains coerced into doing good.

While they knew the movies had flaws and expected them to be controversial, Warner executives were taken aback by the overwhelmingly negative responses, people at the studio said. They believed they had created more grounded, character-based stories that, like “The Dark Knight,” would favorably stand out from chief rival Marvel Studios’ consistently successful but fluffier fare such as “Avengers” and “Guardians of the Galaxy.”

The negative reactions were troubling. Despite the box office, if people aren’t happy and excited to see what’s next when they come out of theaters, the long-term prospects for DC films and consumer products are poor. Warner plans to release at least two movies based on DC characters every year for the foreseeable future at a cost of several billion dollars. CEO Kevin Tsujihara has said DC is one of three pillars of his studio’s movie business, along with Harry Potter and Lego.

Still, Warner executives have found reasons to take heart. The fact that this year’s movies were met with strident opinions—instead of a shrug like the Twentieth Century Fox 2015 superhero flop “Fantastic Four”—indicates that fans care about the characters. Big opening weekends mean that the marketing and concepts resonated—a particularly impressive feat for “Suicide Squad,” given the low profile of the comic book on which it’s based. And even people who didn’t like the movies latched onto characters who proved popular, particularly Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman and Mr. Affleck’s Batman in “Batman v Superman” and Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn and Will Smith’s Deadshot in “Suicide Squad.”

To have these characters be part of the fabric of pop culture is so rewarding, though of course we’re disappointed the movies weren’t better reviewed,” said Mr. Berg. He spoke from the London set of “Justice League,” where Mr. Snyder is a few weeks away from completing a five-month shoot.

“Justice League” was already intended to be less depressing than “Batman v Superman,” but Messrs Berg and Johns worked with Mr. Snyder and screenwriter Chris Terrio to make changes after gauging fan reactions to the superhero fight.

“We accelerated the story to get to the hope and optimism a little faster,” said Mr. Berg.

“Justice League” will also directly address Batman’s extreme actions in the last movie, such as torturing criminals and nearly killing the man of steel, rather than accept them as par for the course. And it’s expected to have fewer of Mr. Snyder’s controversial flourishes, like the dream sequences in “Batman v Superman,” in favor of focusing more tightly on the plot, people close to the picture said.

Plans to make “Justice League” a multipart story that would continue in a 2019 sequel also were abandoned.

“Justice League” will come out in November 2017, following next June’s “Wonder Woman.” Mr. Johns did a rewrite of the script for the superheroine’s origin story, working with director Patty Jenkins, and is writing a solo Batman movie to be directed by Mr. Affleck. It will feature Joe Manganiello, from “Magic Mike” and “True Blood,” as nemesis Deathstroke and could come as early as 2018, though Warner has not set a release date.

As he is writing screenplays and working with Mr. Berg to develop other coming DC movies including “Flash,” “Aquaman” and “Cyborg,” Mr. Johns has pulled back from his work on DC television shows and comic books.

This past May, however, he wrote a special called “Rebirth” that gave DC’s comic-book line a more hopeful tone and a renewed focus on each superhero’s core qualities—following complaints that, like the recent movies, they had gone astray from what fans loved about them. Early sales numbers have been strong, and Mr. Johns said he is applying lessons to his film work.

“We’re trying to take a really hard look at everything to make sure we stay true to the characters and tell stories that celebrate them,” he said.
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Movie scripts are hard to credit to one person unless it's an indie movie with few hands touching it. Studios will bring in writers to punch up and John's isn't a screenwriter so I'd be okay with that.


i appreciate John's efforts but no one is 100% and I hope "Geoff johns with authority" means he will bring in the comic guys who knows these characters for advice.

I loved Morrison's AS Superman but his Wonder Woman was crap and his Batman wasn't necessarily the version I'd want on a big screen.

Getting a Gail Simone to help with Birds of Prey or at least a Batgirl movie is what I hope his appointment really means.
 
From El Mayimbe at The Wrap

Here is the kicker: Geoff Johns was recruited by the filmmakers themselves to work on these movies, according to sources close to the studio, and didn’t pitch or assign himself to the projects.

The fact that three different filmmakers asked for Johns’ input should speak volumes for fans since a comics-savvy guy will play a critical role in shaping the upcoming DC movies — even if he’s arriving too late to influence this year’s two projects, which have taken a drubbing from critics.

So before fanboys hit the panic button, the studio is giving Johns the opportunity to emerge as the fan-centric playmaker who can successfully go on offense and create a Marvel-style shared universe for Warner.

Many don't WANT a marvel style universe. It's popcorn movie , no stakes, talking, shooting animal crap. NOW the dceu is in trouble. Wasn't before. These movies will suck if it's filled with stupid jokes.
 
I mean it's a good point. Even Marvel Studios while it started strong with Iron Man, didn't hit out of the park with Incredible Hulk, which was a disappointment. But everything worked out well enough that they could keep doing what they are doing.

It did work for family fun but many people don't want to see talking animals and jokes in every scene. This poll should have an option that says wish they wouldn't change things.
 
It did work for family fun but many people don't want to see talking animals and jokes in every scene. This poll should have an option that says wish they wouldn't change things.

I'd honestly think if given the option of:

Let Johns try and fix the DCEU
&
Leave the DCEU

I think most people here would vote for the former not latter.

However, regardless, whoever did win either group is a small corner of the audience group. WB is thinking bigger picture and long term.
 
Like the DCAU and YJAU, they need some sort of bible or outline of how this universe works and keep it consistent.
 
It did work for family fun but many people don't want to see talking animals and jokes in every scene. This poll should have an option that says wish they wouldn't change things.

Stop trolling man. Rocket Raccoon is a more likable and empathetic character than Henry Cavill's Superman. Get over it.

None of this has anything to do with talking animals or jokes in every scene.
 
Stop trolling man. Rocket Raccoon is a more likable and empathetic character than Henry Cavill's Superman. Get over it.

None of this has anything to do with talking animals or jokes in every scene.

Wow, I know who's non-impartial reviews I'll be avoiding from now on.
 
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