Guardians of the Galaxy

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But Jack is Captain America Lite. He should get to throw it at least twice. His hair is literally the American flag afterall :o


So what? Nuke has the american flag tattooed on his face. Should he be allowed to use the shield too?
It's not like the key to the city. It belongs to one person at a time. One person who's earned it.

What's Jack Flag ever done to earn it? Throw a manhole at the T-bolts, defend a prison and what? go on one or two random adventures a decade or more ago?

How many times has he saved the world? How many planet-wide threats has he stopped?

There's nothing at all that even halfway convinces me he's even close to worthy of slinging the shield yet.
 
You're very protective over that shield lol.

Jack needs his own shield then, like US Agent.
 
You're very protective over that shield lol.

Jack needs his own shield then, like US Agent.

Yeah. Odd that, considering i'm not even American and Cap isnt even in my top ten of favorite marvel characters.

I just understand and appreciate the symbolism and importance of items like that. It's part of the legacy of a man who's widely considered to be the greatest hero mankind's ever produced. You dont mess around with an honor like that.

It'd be like giving Wayne Gretzky's favorite hockey stick to some schmuck that plays hockey in a house league.

But yeah I'd be completely cool with Jack getting his own shield. He deffinitely needs something to set him apart from the generic street-thug-punching kinda superhero.
 
Vance Astro has looked and been portrayed SO well during his GOTG run.

I , however, fully expect him to be a KIA during war of Kings. Especially when he is displayed on covers and such.

Now what happens with that rascally, authentic , sweet captain america shield?? Jack Flagg you say??

It doesn't even really kill off OG GOTG Vance..since we are not entirely sure where this cat even hails from.
 
If Vance gets killed then I say the Shield goes to earth and Nick Fury decides who gets it next.
 
A link to my review of the 10th issue, with spoilers:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16473769&postcount=43

To comment on the idea that was mentioned last page about "people being annoyed when characters are taken out of their element", I say that it depends on the character. For a character who has always been a C-Lister on someone else's book, as Jack Flag has been in CAPTAIN AMERICA and THUNDERBOLTS, it is easier to accept because the character hasn't been as defined and is more flexible. But for long term characters who have a clear premise and whatnot, it can become irritating at worst, a distraction at middle, and a scenic cruise at best.

The best example is alien sagas in the X-Men. The original premise of the X-Men was that they were a team of oddball teenage mutant superheroes who sought co-existence with humans and thought going out in colorful costumes and helping the same humans who hated them was the best way to do it. This worked in short spurts, but by and large didn't; and it should be worth noting that the original UXM comic as launched in 1964 was canceled by the late 60's and existed as a "walking dead" reprint series until the relaunch of the franchise in 1975 by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum, which soon led to Claremont writing the book for 19 years (before his spurts of retirement in the 90's, and by the mid 2000's he has been pushed to the fringes by dwindling ideas and sales). It was during those issues, and at least after Stan Lee left, that the issues of racism and bigotry came into focus with more fervor, went from being token details to full on story plots and whatnot.

What, then, do adventures with aliens do for the X-Men as a premise? Nothing. Maybe if they battled off an alien horde by themselves to save New York or some other city and humans still hated them, or immediately loved them only to turn on them later, as has happened with the Fantastic Four at times (who aren't mutants), then it could be sometimes. A lot of times alien stories with the X-Men have been used as token adventures where sometimes a character, like Jean Grey, will get focus or something to do. But many times they seem to be rehashes or token stories with character bits shoved in, like Whedon's Breakworld arc. With some simply rewrites you easily could have put the Fantastic Four in that story.

I agree that Marvel sometimes has problems with a shared universe; they think it has to mean every book is linked together as a chain at all times, but that isn't so; some details could just trickle through. Why have no heroes cared more about the mutant plight other than being willing to make occasional team ups or something allow 1-2 token muties on an Avengers roster? Why does the media usually assume that any non-mutant hero isn't a mutant even if they are masked and no one knew anything about their origins (Ultimate Spider-Man is the first time I recall that any casual pedestrians/cops assumed Spider-Man, usually presented as a rogue in the media, may be a mutant, beyond, say, Magneto or the X-Men via plot contrivance for a story).

But with premises and characters with firmly established premises and things that they fight, and are usually best fighting, things that aren't that usually are distractions, or time-fillers. Spider-Man usually works best when he fights other freaks of science like himself. Has he fought magical threats? Sure; he's fought everything at some point. Have any of those stories been defining? No. Not really. The magical mumbo got in the way of the Ezekial stuff, which was to have Peter essentially meet someone like himself who didn't feel as responsible, but wasn't a drooling fanatic like Venom or Scorpion (least for a time).

Imagine Superman in a Western story. Cowboy hat, revolvers, and all. It clearly wouldn't fit and would read as a filler story.

That isn't to say these stories should never be bothered with, but it is an explanation for why some fans get annoyed when they crop up. I mean, Hulk has fought a lot of magical enemies, too, especially with the Defenders, but his best stuff is usually when he is fighting other science monsters.

There is, of course, the caveat, and it is a very subjective one; if it's good, it doesn't matter. PLANET HULK took the Hulk into space for a year and while it was similar to other adventures in alternate universes or whatnot, it was still different and was very good.

Too often, though, when a story comes along that takes a character, especially a well defined one, out of their element and into another, it often reads as a random lark, and is often dismissed or looked down on. After all, if every hero was brilliant at magical threats, why would we need Doctor Strange, who exclusively fights them? If anyone could beat Magneto or Apocalypse, or fight for mutant rights via the media or whatever, why would we need the X-Men? Hell, M-Day removed most of the X-Men's major premise and that line has struggled violently since; they spent the first two years in space avoiding it in most books. The only one that dove into it was X-FACTOR, which has always been a B-book in the line. Too often when a story removes a hero from their given element, or the premise where they shine the most, they lose some of what makes them distinctive and they become Just Another Hero, and that can bring about apathy or annoyance in readers. Spider-Man could and has been in some stories where he battled some sorcerer or demon or whatnot, but often he simply is Just Another Hero in those stories, and they don't match him as much as, say, J. Jonah Jameson being duped into funding another Spider-Slayer, or something. Aside for the Colossus revelations, any superhero team could have been involved with the Breakworld menace.

Jack Flag, though, isn't as defined and isn't as well known, so shattering his premise isn't a huge deal. That is part of the fun of those little known C-List characters; they are very flexible because expectations are not always as high or rigid. There is a freedom in that. It would be stupid and irrelevant if Bucky Barnes joined the Guardians of the Galaxy to be a token U.S. patriot hero in space, but Jack Flag fits in perfectly.

And I do believe he has his powers back, since he retained his super-strength during the raid on 42 which was stated in narration in I believe GOTG #9; he simply was wheelchair bound, which limited how he could use said strength.

I hadn't thought on Major Victory going the KIA route in GOTG, but it could be interesting, I guess. It also could be possible that he could be a member who dies during WOK to inform us that he is very important, and now Jack Flag has to take the shield of his hero Steve Rogers (even if it was the Rogers from an alternate future reality). Or, an option that allows Victory to live, he starts to rely more on his psionic powers and "outgrows" the shield.

Still, there are a fair amount of Cap related characters who use shields (Bucky, John Walker, Protocide, Battlestar, likely others I missed) and Jack has usually relied on projectile weapons before, so it may not be a given that he automatically gets Victory's shield.
 
I like how Vic has been drawn and portrayed but he is not old school Vance Astro.

Dread, trust me..he will be gone very soon. He is not planned as a major character. Consider him a tip of the hat to the old days and nothing more.

JIm Valentino will live forever!
 
440px-gotg-ps.jpg
 
I like how Vic has been drawn and portrayed but he is not old school Vance Astro.

Dread, trust me..he will be gone very soon. He is not planned as a major character. Consider him a tip of the hat to the old days and nothing more.

JIm Valentino will live forever!

It would explain why his characterization has been bare bones. We'll see what happens, I guess.
 
I also found it weird that when they scanned him they said he "wasn't human" or something.
 
It is Captain America's shield from an alternate, future reality, which the reality of the original GOTG was. I think there would be some sort of temporal disturbance that would occur if Rogers' "present 616" shield touched the "alternate future" Vance Astro version of the shield, so they added some thingie to prevent that.

Still, though, as time in the Marvel Universe isn't linear, that is that any distance in the timeline seems to create an alternate one rather than effecting a static future one (because Marvel never knows what they are doing 2-10 years in the future), both shields could exist within the same space. It would basically be akin to when Dark Beast (from the AOA reality) would interact with the present Beast.
 
Wasnt Caps original shield destroyed?

Granted, I'm not a shield timeline guru..but they destroyed the shield prior to the " hard light" sheild days of the early 2000's. I am I wrong here?

This did not happen in the GOTG timeline...ergo that shield is differente.
 
It was indeed destroyed. It got lost in the ocean, sank, and the extreme cold made it so brittle that it shattered when it was dropped. But due to its vibranium components and a mishap with Klaw, it was restored.

Bucky and Vance both have "THE shield," it's just that their shields come from different timelines.
 
It was indeed destroyed. It got lost in the ocean, sank, and the extreme cold made it so brittle that it shattered when it was dropped. But due to its vibranium components and a mishap with Klaw, it was restored.

It wasn't the cold that shattered it. Can't quite remember what happened but temperature extremes wouldn't destroy it.
 
Captain America's shield is incredibly sturdy. There have been no end of alternate future storylines where superheroes were slaughtered en masse and that shield still survived. It's iconic. :up:
 
It doesn't need to be. His head already is.
It wasn't the cold that shattered it. Can't quite remember what happened but temperature extremes wouldn't destroy it.
Oh, you're right. There was some kind of flaw in the shield from way back when it was destroyed and recreated back in Secret Wars, I think. The cold was just the straw that broke the camel's back after years of the flaw slowly getting worse.
 
Yikes the coloring reeeaally doesn't match the pencils.

I'm sure it's just some sort of dream zombie test thing and she'll prove herself and become MOAR STRONGER or something.
 
Hey, look, a thread already devoted to the Guardians of the Galaxy. :)

The preview looks interesting. The art's fairly sketchy and awkward in places, but with Pelletier off doing the big crossover, we knew this was coming. I wonder if Phyla losing the quantum bands has anything to do with Rich's change of costume over in Nova. Doubtful--this looks more like a metaphorical loss of the bands because she still doesn't feel she's worthy or something.
 
Yeah, the art is a bit weird but I can't wait for this.

Hey, look, a thread already devoted to the Guardians of the Galaxy. :)

The preview looks interesting. The art's fairly sketchy and awkward in places, but with Pelletier off doing the big crossover, we knew this was coming. I wonder if Phyla losing the quantum bands has anything to do with Rich's change of costume over in Nova. Doubtful--this looks more like a metaphorical loss of the bands because she still doesn't feel she's worthy or something.

What's this now?
 
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