'H2', Rob Zombie's sequel to 'Halloween'

[NotFadeAway]

Look.......

I think the original Halloween is the greatest slashler film of all time, it's an actual well made film in a genre that does not have many of those. I also think the original Halloween owns the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre in every which way, so bring it on TCM fanboys.

With that said, I loved Zombie's Halloween remake. In a age in which most horror remakes are at best bland formula following cookie cutter versions of there previous selvess, and at worst are remakes along the lines on Black Christmas and My Bloody Valentine, Rob Zombie's Halloween was something new while at the same time following the structure and story of the original, and it was an intense film with an imposing villian in Tyler's Mane Myers, some excellent kills, and nice cinematography, an underrated component in horror films. And Scout Taylor-Compton was agreat Laurie Strode. The only thing I really hated about Zombie's Halloween remake was Malcolm McDowell's Dr. Loomis, and that just had more to do with the way Loomis was written more so than McDowell.Zombie's Halloween remake and the Hills Have Eyes remake are two of the only remakes I have any respect for.

With that being said, and with the reminder that I like every one involved with the film, Zombie, Compton, McDowell, Danielle Harris, Brad Dourif, etc, Halloween 2 was a f-ing mess of a film, a fun mess, but a mess. The great cinematography was back, as was the intensity of Myers and some great kills, but Zombie really should have had someone help him with the script. He tried, but it failed, sadly. Still, I would rather have this than some platinum dunes-esque Halloween film.

I say sadly because I'm dreading this Halloween 3D more than a third Zombie Halloween. Oh yea, I can't wait for some studio controlled, flashy ligthted, formula driven drivel that has Myers killing people in 3D. Ugghhh, kill me now, pun intended.

The only person I want to see make another Halloween film is Bryan Bertino, the writer and director of The Strangers. And I still maintain that had Rob Zombie made two Friday the 13th films instead of Halloween, we would be sitting here singing his praises right now. I have always felt he was a better for fit for Jason. I mean, was the Friday remake bad, no, but it was boring and formula driven, what I expect from Platinum Dunes.

 

[Figs]

NotFadeAway, I'm not going to get into it with you since I love both the original Halloween and Texas Chainsaw Massacre but I will say it's ignorant to compare them the way you did since they are two entirely different films. Texas Chainsaw Massacre shouldn't even be considered a slasher film.

 

[DACrowe]

Look.......

I think the original Halloween is the greatest slashler film of all time, it's an actual well made film in a genre that does not have many of those. I also think the original Halloween owns the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre in every which way, so bring it on TCM fanboys.

With that said, I loved Zombie's Halloween remake. In a age in which most horror remakes are at best bland formula following cookie cutter versions of there previous selvess, and at worst are remakes along the lines on Black Christmas and My Bloody Valentine, Rob Zombie's Halloween was something new while at the same time following the structure and story of the original, and it was an intense film with an imposing villian in Tyler's Mane Myers, some excellent kills, and nice cinematography, an underrated component in horror films. And Scout Taylor-Compton was agreat Laurie Strode. The only thing I really hated about Zombie's Halloween remake was Malcolm McDowell's Dr. Loomis, and that just had more to do with the way Loomis was written more so than McDowell.Zombie's Halloween remake and the Hills Have Eyes remake are two of the only remakes I have any respect for.

With that being said, and with the reminder that I like every one involved with the film, Zombie, Compton, McDowell, Danielle Harris, Brad Dourif, etc, Halloween 2 was a f-ing mess of a film, a fun mess, but a mess. The great cinematography was back, as was the intensity of Myers and some great kills, but Zombie really should have had someone help him with the script. He tried, but it failed, sadly. Still, I would rather have this than some platinum dunes-esque Halloween film.

I say sadly because I'm dreading this Halloween 3D more than a third Zombie Halloween. Oh yea, I can't wait for some studio controlled, flashy ligthted, formula driven drivel that has Myers killing people in 3D. Ugghhh, kill me now, pun intended.

The only person I want to see make another Halloween film is Bryan Bertino, the writer and director of The Strangers. And I still maintain that had Rob Zombie made two Friday the 13th films instead of Halloween, we would be sitting here singing his praises right now. I have always felt he was a better for fit for Jason. I mean, was the Friday remake bad, no, but it was boring and formula driven, what I expect from Platinum Dunes.

I'd agree with everything you say, except that MacDowell's Loomis was a strong departure that gave the first film its humanity and his relationship with Michael (as well as the level of intensity as opposed to frat boy gratification in the gore and nudity) made the first Zombie Halloween quite strong. Mind you, Zombie completely hurt his character making him a narcissistic parody of his former self for nearly the whole sequel only reverting to his original character in the last 10 minutes so he could retread an inferior version of his role in the ending of the first film (except he is now really dead, which given how Zombie ruined his character this movie had little effect on me, surprisingly).

I'd also say that the FT13 remake ****ing terrible. But I'd agree with the rest. I think it is time to put Michael Myers to bed. At least for a while.

 

[NotFadeAway]

NotFadeAway, I'm not going to get into it with you since I love both the original Halloween and Texas Chainsaw Massacre but I will say it's ignorant to compare them the way you did since they are two entirely different films. Texas Chainsaw Massacre shouldn't even be considered a slasher film.

This is an arguement that a friend and I always get into, whats the better film, Halloween or the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? For me, it's obviously Halloween.

 

[DACrowe]

BTW I watched this via...odd means and it was too dark. I had two questions in my initial post, but it may have been lost in a long review, so I'll ask again:

1) Did Michael eat those rednecks' dog during the intercutting with the pizza scene? I couldn't tell, but it sounded gross.

and

2) SPOILERS

Spoiler

How did Michael exactly kill Annie. It was the only genuinely sad and affecting death in the movie and I saw the chase and her covered in blood dying in Laurie's arms as well as Brackett's great reaction. However, I couldn't make out what that sick bastard did to kill her. Any help I'd be thankful for.

Thanks.

 

[CashforStash]

BTW I watched this via...odd means and it was too dark. I had two questions in my initial post, but it may have been lost in a long review, so I'll ask again:

1) Did Michael eat those rednecks' dog during the intercutting with the pizza scene? I couldn't tell, but it sounded gross.

and

2) SPOILERS

Spoiler

How did Michael exactly kill Annie. It was the only genuinely sad and affecting death in the movie and I saw the chase and her covered in blood dying in Laurie's arms as well as Brackett's great reaction. However, I couldn't make out what that sick bastard did to kill her. Any help I'd be thankful for.

Thanks.

I believe he...

Spoiler

sliced her (like as in softly sliced her skin so it wouldent do alot of damage) then beat her up and tossed her everywhere (i.e. slaming her into shelves, kicking punching etc) then in the end stabbing her in the stomach area, therefor giving her a good 5 minutes of dying on the floor. Michael intended not to kill her right away so he could use her as bate for laurie.

 

[NotFadeAway]

I'd agree with everything you say, except that MacDowell's Loomis was a strong departure that gave the first film its humanity and his relationship with Michael (as well as the level of intensity as opposed to frat boy gratification in the gore and nudity) made the first Zombie Halloween quite strong. Mind you, Zombie completely hurt his character making him a narcissistic parody of his former self for nearly the whole sequel only reverting to his original character in the last 10 minutes so he could retread an inferior version of his role in the ending of the first film (except he is now really dead, which given how Zombie ruined his character this movie had little effect on me, surprisingly).

I'd also say that the FT13 remake ****ing terrible. But I'd agree with the rest. I think it is time to put Michael Myers to bed. At least for a while.

I will admit that I am very biased, I loved Donald Pleasence and his Dr. Loomis. I loved that somebody saw the evil that was within Michael Myers, someone that understood what the hell was really going on. The original Loomis really added to the creep factor in the original(and sequels), and through the original Loomis that aduience got the feeling that something beyond the ordinary "psycho escapes" was going on. I loved that about the original, that Loomis was acting like the damn anti-christ had escaped imprisonment, while everything and everyone else pointed toward a wack job had escaped an institution and yea, some innocent people are going to die but this guy can stopped. And then, with each passing scene that saw Laurie cause bodily harm to Myers, yet he kept coming, it was WTF, why won't he stay down, abut you felt a bit better after he got shot. And then, when there was no body in the yard at the end, it gave off the feeling that something very supernatural and evil was going on, and it was creepy as hell.

Anyway, in Zombie's remake it was nice seeing the earlier years of Myers and Loomis, with Loomis actually trying to help Myers instead of basically wanting him to be beheaded. And I could have even seen Pleasence's Loomis writing a book about Myers, but more so preaching about how evil Michael was and how he had found some vessel for satan or some crazy rant like that. That would have been a route I would have taken if I were remaking Halloween. And I agree with you that Halloween 2 took a crap all over the Loomis character from the remake, up until like you said, the last 10 minutes of the movie, in which he became his old self. Thats one of many reasons this film was a mess.

Like I said, I really feel Zombie needs someone to help him write his scripts.

I was being kind with the Friday remake. They followed the formula and amde a modern day version of the original Part 2 with the hockey mask included. It was just so damn boring and bland, the enitre subplot with Jared Padelcki and his sister made me want to toss my jumbo drink at the screen. It was typical platinum dunes. Formula driven, the kills were boring, the scene with Pamela Voorhees was horrid, cliche upon cliche upon cliche, the cinematography sucked, the woefully underrated score from the first four friday's was noexistent, there was no real tension, the underground fortress drove me up a wall. And most of all, Jason Voorhees is a supernatural character. Take that hint of the supernatural that surrounded Michael Myers in the original Halloween, and times that by ten for Jason. That element of the character wasn't there, atleast until the last scene, and that pissed me off. During the final chase scene, Jason should have been shot, stabbed, kicked, punched, hit with a sledgehammer, and then a car, and then got his big ass up and kept coming. Thats Jason Voorhees. I did like that they used the burlap sack, had I been making the movie, I would have kept Jason in the sack until the third act, Jason would have just got the hockey mask in time for the final chase scene. My Friday remake would have been a cross between The Final Chapter and Jason Lives, my two favorite Jason movies. With all do respect to the beloved Kane Hodder, Ted White and CJ Graham were the two very best Jason's, although Derek Mears flashed potential. In a proper Jason film, he could work. And I think CJ Graham would have made a great Michael Myers, by the way.

I do mean it when I say Rob Zombie would have been a much better fit with Friday the 13th. Think about it, we could have gotten grisly death scenes, Tyler Mane as Jason, Sheri Moon Zombie as Mrs. Voorhees, I'm sure Rob would have gotten roles for Scout Taylor-Compton and Danielle Harris, who I have always wanted to see in a Jason flick. Bill Mosley could have been the new and imrpoved crazy Ralph. **** and ass out the ying yang, it would have been glorious.

 

[DACrowe]

I believe he...

Spoiler

sliced her (like as in softly sliced her skin so it wouldent do alot of damage) then beat her up and tossed her everywhere (i.e. slaming her into shelves, kicking punching etc) then in the end stabbing her in the stomach area, therefor giving her a good 5 minutes of dying on the floor. Michael intended not to kill her right away so he could use her as bate for laurie.

Thanks.

Spoiler

I know Carpenter's version is far better, but I really liked Annie and her father and her relationship with Laurie in these movies. She may be the first "best friend" in one of these movies that seemed to serve any dramatic purpose beyond dying. And it is mostly because she survived H1(2007) and had her own PTS of being a shut-in maternal type in this film, but it made her death very sad.

Michael be a son of a *****. Ah well.

And one more for those interested in interpretations:

Spoiler

Why did Laurie see Michael's visions and why did they hold her down. Mamma Myers obviously isn't haunting them as she hated what her son became and killed herself over it, so why is Michael's cheesy delusions haunting Laurie to the point where it cost Sam Loomis his life? I chalked it up to bad writing, but anyone else have a theory?

 

[DACrowe]

I will admit that I am very biased, I loved Donald Pleasence and his Dr. Loomis. I loved that somebody saw the evil that was within Michael Myers, someone that understood what the hell was really going on. The original Loomis really added to the creep factor in the original(and sequels), and through the original Loomis that aduience got the feeling that something beyond the ordinary "psycho escapes" was going on. I loved that about the original, that Loomis was acting like the damn anti-christ had escaped imprisonment, while everything and everyone else pointed toward a wack job had escaped an institution and yea, some innocent people are going to die but this guy can stopped. And then, with each passing scene that saw Laurie cause bodily harm to Myers, yet he kept coming, it was WTF, why won't he stay down, abut you felt a bit better after he got shot. And then, when there was no body in the yard at the end, it gave off the feeling that something very supernatural and evil was going on, and it was creepy as hell.

Anyway, in Zombie's remake it was nice seeing the earlier years of Myers and Loomis, with Loomis actually trying to help Myers instead of basically wanting him to be beheaded. And I could have even seen Pleasence's Loomis writing a book about Myers, but more so preaching about how evil Michael was and how he had found some vessel for satan or some crazy rant like that. That would have been a route I would have taken if I were remaking Halloween. And I agree with you that Halloween 2 took a crap all over the Loomis character from the remake, up until like you said, the last 10 minutes of the movie, in which he became his old self. Thats one of many reasons this film was a mess.

Like I said, I really feel Zombie needs someone to help him write his scripts.

I was being kind with the Friday remake. They followed the formula and amde a modern day version of the original Part 2 with the hockey mask included. It was just so damn boring and bland, the enitre subplot with Jared Padelcki and his sister made me want to toss my jumbo drink at the screen. It was typical platinum dunes. Formula driven, the kills were boring, the scene with Pamela Voorhees was horrid, cliche upon cliche upon cliche, the cinematography sucked, the woefully underrated score from the first four friday's was noexistent, there was no real tension, the underground fortress drove me up a wall. And most of all, Jason Voorhees is a supernatural character. Take that hint of the supernatural that surrounded Michael Myers in the original Halloween, and times that by ten for Jason. That element of the character wasn't there, atleast until the last scene, and that pissed me off. During the final chase scene, Jason should have been shot, stabbed, kicked, punched, hit with a sledgehammer, and then a car, and then got his big ass up and kept coming. Thats Jason Voorhees. I did like that they used the burlap sack, had I been making the movie, I would have kept Jason in the sack until the third act, Jason would have just got the hockey mask in time for the final chase scene. My Friday remake would have been a cross between The Final Chapter and Jason Lives, my two favorite Jason movies. With all do respect to the beloved Kane Hodder, Ted White and CJ Graham were the two very best Jason's, although Derek Mears flashed potential. In a proper Jason film, he could work. And I think CJ Graham would have made a great Michael Myers, by the way.

I do mean it when I say Rob Zombie would have been a much better fit with Friday the 13th. Think about it, we could have gotten grisly death scenes, Tyler Mane as Jason, Sheri Moon Zombie as Mrs. Voorhees, I'm sure Rob would have gotten roles for Scout Taylor-Compton and Danielle Harris, who I have always wanted to see in a Jason flick. Bill Mosley could have been the new and imrpoved crazy Ralph. **** and ass out the ying yang, it would have been glorious.

I do agree that he took a **** on Loomis in H2, which made his sacrifice at the end (a repeat of what he did much better in the 2007 film) hallow, because he wasn't the caring, guilty, obsessed psychologist of the first film. He was a media ****e who felt bad for writing a bad book in the sequel. Ugh. He could have written another book, but he should have been there by Halloween night when he heard what happened and doing his own investigation after being barred by Brackett and then that confrontation at the end after Brackett knows Annie is dead and Laurie is probably about to follow suit wouldn't feel rushed in and his sacrifice (as he could have known the sheriff's daughter was dead and he could feel truly guilty). I like Pleasence's Loomis more, but it had been done to death and it was nice to see a non-Van Helsing Loomis. In fact, Loomis viewing Michael Myers as his best friend, kind of like a rabid dog he reluctantly knows he has to put down, was a great addition and gave some strength to a character who was great in Halloween I and II but had become a parody by Halloween 4. I did actually like MacDowell's Loomis a lot, before he became a parody of himself in Halloween II's remake.

As for FT13, I never liked the series. I suppose Zombie would have been a better fit for it. But it would have mostly disappointed me as the mythology has always been a crappy rip off of Carpenter's film except just about T&A with gratuitous violence. Plus, I don't want to see Harris in a horror franchise that isn't Halloween. But she may need the work now.

 

[The Apatow Crew]

They are on ignore. Doesn't help when they are quoted and we still see them stirring the crap pot.

I have so many people on ignore I'm starting to lose track.

 

[Figs]

This is an arguement that a friend and I always get into, whats the better film, Halloween or the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? For me, it's obviously Halloween.

I never was arguing what the better film is, if you go back and reread my reply you would realize that I was stating that the two films shouldn't be compared since Texas Chainsaw Massacre isn't a slasher film. A better argument/discussion would be, 'What's the better film, Halloween, NoES or F13th?'

 

[Bubonic]

Could someone please give me a bullet form of what was so awful about this movie?

 

[DACrowe]

Why Halloween II (2009) needlessly sucked:

-Terrible writing.

-Contrived dialogue between most characters (such as Loomis and his press agent, Laurie and her new BFFs, etc.)

-Michael is driven by visions of his mamma on a white horse who tells him to kill his little sister and he talks back to her as a little boy in his head.

-Laurie also gets Michael's visions for no explainable reason and as the movie goes on the visions actually start controlling Laurie against her will. Again it is never explained.

-At least a half dozen rednecks who talk in nothing but expletives and crude sexual humor appear in little vignettes only to get almost immediately and unsurpisingly killed and stomped on in a gruesome, dull manner.

-Loomis no longer cares about anyone but himself as he pimps a new book and his arc is to realize he is washed up and feel regret.

-The only likable characters are hurt and one is killed off (maybe good for dramatic reasons though).

-Bad rushed editing. Michael would be on one side of town pointlessly killing someone to hit a formula beat and then be on the other side of town killing someone else, literally in the next scene.

-A very contrived ending.

-Verged on torture porn in some scenes.

Good points:

-Brad Douriff's performance. Danielle Harris as well.

-The dysfunctional family dynamic presented in the Brackett household following the PTS of the first film. Laurie is now Brackett's second (and equally damaged) daughter.

-Lynda (blonde from first and original)'s dad confronting Loomis at a book signing.

-How Laurie found out she was Michael's sister.

That's about it, though.

 

[Bubonic]

Oh wow... I... Umm... Thank you... Some of this needs to register....

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I have so many people on ignore I'm starting to lose track.

Lol. t:

 

[Nightmare]

DAcrow, what about Weird Al? What did you think about that scene.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The book signing scene sounds the most interesting. Care to share more anyone?

 

[Nightmare]

He walked up to Loomis' booth. Loomis opened the book found a picture of Lynda, then her dad yelled at Loomis claiming he was responsible for his daughters death. They started to excort him out, Loomis said it was ok. Then the dad pulled out a gun, before getting tackles by the secruity.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah. At first Loomis does not recognize Lynda's picture. After learning, Loomis tries to apologize and does look genuinely horrified, but the father won't hear it and does pull a gun on Loomis after being escorted out, because he calls Michael, Loomis's monster. A hint of the best aspect of the last film in this scene.

I forgot, there was a nice little scene between Laurie and a shrink at the start of the film that Sheriff Brackett is making her see. She talks about missing her parents and it falls into that dysfunctional family dynamic that I thought had potential.

But these scenes I liked are literally a moments, maybe 30 minutes of a 90 minute movie.

 

[DACrowe]

double?

 

[Marx]

BTW I watched this via...odd means and it was too dark. I had two questions in my initial post, but it may have been lost in a long review, so I'll ask again:

1) Did Michael eat those rednecks' dog during the intercutting with the pizza scene? I couldn't tell, but it sounded gross.

Yeah. In another example of pointless gore, Michael cut the redneck's dog from neck to groin wide open. He then ate it raw while everything was gushing with blood. His fingers were coated in blood...it was pretty disgusting. And pointless.

 

[Fresh Prince]

NotFadeAway, I'm not going to get into it with you since I love both the original Halloween and Texas Chainsaw Massacre but I will say it's ignorant to compare them the way you did since they are two entirely different films. Texas Chainsaw Massacre shouldn't even be considered a slasher film.

What would you consider TCM under then?

 

[Doctor Jones]

Thanks guys. That sounds interesting.

And i think I just learned i saw a different ending to the remake. I guess it ended somewhat like the original but Laurie stabbed him and he crushed Loomis's skull?

The one that I saw was much better.

 

[Nivek]

Yeah. In another example of pointless gore, .

:facepalm

It's a ****ing SLASHER Flick, people...

 

[Marx]

:facepalm

It's a ****ing SLASHER Flick, people...

I prefer my SLASHER flicks to have some kind of substance. (An actual plot, and not just shock gore put in to replace a plot really helps.) That scene contributed absolutely nothing to the movie and was only there for shock value...but keep rolling your eyes at me.