Harry Potter - The Complete Series Thread

[ares834]

I love, love LOVE these books, and have only ever mildly enjoyed the movies.

The one exception was PoA, which, while the self-proclaimed "true fans" complain it is the one that changed too much, I believe is the only one to capture the true essence, spirit and tone of the books, which I find to be much more important when adapting something for another medium. It is also the one film of the franchise that I would actually call a great film.

But behind PoA, I do believe Yates' films were the strongest entries, and I think if they couldn't get Cuaron back, Yates was the second best and solid choice to finish out the series. I don't love his installments, but I do think they were good films. I don't feel the same of the first two films and have mixed feelings on GoF.

I agree with everything here. I'm a huge fan of the books (I've read through the series several times) but I wasn't ever a big fan of the movies. They are fairly enjoyable, but I tend to find them more disappointing than anything. And, like you, PoA was by far the most enjoyable for me. It was wonderful and the only one I ever felt truly captured the magic of the books.

Yates's movies left me mixed. OotP (although I hated how he made wizards aside from Snape and Voldy able to fly with the 'smoke') and DHp1 were both great IMO. But HBP focused to much on the teen angst and left out the far more interesting Voldemort backstory and much of Dumbledore's discussion concerning the horcruxes. And DHp2 butchered the ending IMO. Making an epic magic duel between Voldemort and Harry was a huge mistake and just one of the many problems I has with the ending.

 

[flickchick85]

I think what Newell really nailed in GOF was the camaraderie between the students, especially in the events leading up to the Yule Ball and during the Triwizard Tournament drawing. Especially the classroom scenes, the wonderful Rita Skeeter scene, and during study hall. (And kudos to Newell for coaxing a decent performance from a pre-Twilight Robert Pattinson.)

My main problem with GOF is that it's far more theatrical than the story needs -- except the pivotal graveyard scene, which is beautifully done. (It doesn't help that Patrick Doyle's score just makes things worse.) Like when Dumbledore pins Harry against the trophy exhibit once his name is picked -- the real Dumbledore would NOT do that at all. And then bringing in the Bulgarian headmaster but not even tying in his Death Eater past... why keep his character if you're not going to use him? (That was a wasted opportunity.)

I would agree with all of that. There were just a lot of "off" moments in GoF (like the one with Dumbledore that you described), and I think your choice of the word "theatrical" is spot on. I don't have a problem with theatricality in general, but when it clashes with the rest of the story/series, then its a problem, which is what I feel the case was with GoF. I also just missed Alfonso's unique knack for atmosphere after the wonderful PoA, even in the graveyard scene, which I agree was good (and my favorite scene in the movie), but I couldn't help but imagine how much cooler it could have been with Alfonso at the helm. So I guess Newell was at a particular disadvantage with me, coming directly after my favorite installment/director in the series. Thankfully, Yates brought more of that atmosphere that I was looking for in his installments. That said...

I think Yates did a decent job with finishing the series off. I liked what he did with OOTP -- cutting the story down to its essence but omitting too much. HBP was beautifully shot but it had the same problems OOTP did story-wise. DH1&2 were wonderful -- extremely faithful to the book but they did a great job. I can understand people not liking DH1 for its lack of action, but I loved how character-driven it was and letting that dictate the story rather than the other way around. DH2 was the big climatic finale, and it did not disappoint. (I still would've cut out that epilogue though.)

OotP - while I was happy with Yates' direction, that was first time in which I truly felt like they cut too much out. I guess I'm in a minority within the fandom, because OotP is right behind PoA as my favorite book of the series, and most of the things that I felt made it such a memorable standalone installment were gone. That book, more than ANY installment in the whole series to me, was a great coming-of-age tale. I felt like Rowling really nailed the inner-struggles of angry teenagers perfectly with that one including the part in growing up where we all start to realize that our parents are human beings (and flawed ones at that) too, and the disillusionment we experience when we start to see the world in the many shades of gray that it is. The added layer of the introduction to the oppressive politics of the "adult" wizarding world was a particularly effective touch. And most of that great character work and political satire was excised in the movie, so that the film really just works as a stepping stone to move the overall big picture forward for the next one. That just bummed me out because the book was such a standout individual story to me.

I agree that HBP suffered a similar problem. That was the only book in which I felt like the backstory segments were really part of the "A-Plot." I mean, Voldemort's history is THE star of that book as far as I'm concerned, as it's consistently featured throughout the book, and yet it in the film it was treated just like any other bit of backstory throughout the series - like a cliffnote.

 

[mclay18]

I also just missed Alfonso's unique knack for atmosphere after the wonderful PoA, even in the graveyard scene, which I agree was good (and my favorite scene in the movie), but I couldn't help but imagine how much cooler it could have been with Alfonso at the helm.

I think WB offered Cuaron the chance to direct GOF, but he passed since he was finishing up POA. It's a shame, since like you, I really liked that Gothic atmosphere and color Cuaron brought to the film. And as much as I liked Yates' work, he couldn't really capture what Cuaron did.

It would certainly be interesting to see how Cuaron would've approached GOF, both story-wise and visual-wise. The graveyard scene would probably be as terrifying as the dementor scenes in POA. And it would be great to see how Williams would've scored the film and reworked his 'Window to the Past' theme for GOF.

 

[mclay18]

Gambon's Dumbledore was all over the place in terms of tone until the last OotP. I don't know if he never read the books, but he didn't seem to get the character like Harris until Order and no one seemed to want to correct him. Kloves also isn't the best writer. I think it is pretty telling he didn't write OotP and yet it easily has the strongest narrative. If we ever got the near 3 hour cut, I don't think it would be close. It could be stronger then PoA.

GoF gets beat up at times, but I like it a lot and I think it is a very strong film. It is what HBP wanted to be, but never got close to. Hogwarts is alive with young love, while the main plot moves along at a brisk and exciting pace. It also has an extremely strong third act. Right up there with PoA and OotP. It hits on emotions in a very real way imo. Fleur and Cedric's father's reaction still get me every time. The only problem I ever had was the obvious tell from Moody.

That was evident off the bat... Michael Goldenberg didn't give much of Ron's lines to Hermione, gave Ron his dues, and he had a firm grasp on the heart of the story. And his writing really shone in the Harry/Sirius scenes and the climatic Ministry of Magic scenes. Kloves would've fumbled OOTP big time. I'm sad they didn't keep Goldenberg for HBP and DH, since he could've fixed Kloves' fumbles.

And you are right on about that bit in GOF, about Cedric's father and Fleur reacting when Harry and Cedric's dead body emerge in Hogwarts. It really hits hard. That's another aspect Newell nailed... the shock of someone's death.

 

[jmc]

Did everyone just come in here to talk about how they don't like the one series that actually held a crazy high level of quality throughout its run?

Did anyone say anything of the sorts?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That was evident off the bat... Michael Goldenberg didn't give much of Ron's lines to Hermione, gave Ron his dues, and he had a firm grasp on the heart of the story. And his writing really shone in the Harry/Sirius scenes and the climatic Ministry of Magic scenes. Kloves would've fumbled OOTP big time. I'm sad they didn't keep Goldenberg for HBP and DH, since he could've fixed Kloves' fumbles.

And you are right on about that bit in GOF, about Cedric's father and Fleur reacting when Harry and Cedric's dead body emerge in Hogwarts. It really hits hard. That's another aspect Newell nailed... the shock of someone's death.

I agree completely.
[YT]6Tbffj_04cI[/YT]

Eat it Kloves. t:

Did anyone say anything of the sorts?

Look at the responses for mine. Yeah, its alright but I like other stuff better.

 

[ares834]

I agree completely.
[YT]6Tbffj_04cI[/YT]

Eat it Kloves. t:

Pretty awesome duel. But the whole time I was watching it I was wondering why a quasi-Priori Incantatem was happening. And then in the films it happened again... and again... and again.

Sorta ruins the whole Avada Kadavra's unblockable clause if any wizard can block it with a paltry disarming charm. But who cares about stroytelling if it looks cool right?

 

[flickchick85]

I think WB offered Cuaron the chance to direct GOF, but he passed since he was finishing up POA. It's a shame, since like you, I really liked that Gothic atmosphere and color Cuaron brought to the film. And as much as I liked Yates' work, he couldn't really capture what Cuaron did.

It would certainly be interesting to see how Cuaron would've approached GOF, both story-wise and visual-wise. The graveyard scene would probably be as terrifying as the dementor scenes in POA. And it would be great to see how Williams would've scored the film and reworked his 'Window to the Past' theme for GOF.

YEEEEAAS, Williams' score for PoA is my favorite by far. I really wish his other (non-"Hedwig's..") themes had continued to be used throughout the series. Especially "Window to the Past."

That said, I don't think he necessarily would have stayed on even if Cuaron had.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Window to the Past was awesome as was the Voldemort theme.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I loved what Patrick Doyle did with Williams' main theme at the beginning of GOF. Beyond that though the music was overpowering at times, as is often the case with Doyle's work.

 

[dark_b]

i wonder if HP was realesed today if the scenes with Muggles would work. they are over the top evil and so cliche. i liked it. but i just wonder.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

That was something I actually really liked about what Curan and and Yates did, showing how the wizardring and muggle worlds interact and correlate to each other. Like in POA when you see the muggle train running right next to Harry's room and over diagon alley, or the opening scene to HBP.

 

[dark_b]

i made a mistake in my post. i meant Dursleys. the family was over the top evil.

sorry

 

[Ajendo]

It's the entire reason he is who he is.

I'm a massive fan of the movies but have not read the books and tbh, I don't I ever will but could you elaborate on this, please.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Pretty awesome duel. But the whole time I was watching it I was wondering why a quasi-Priori Incantatem was happening. And then in the films it happened again... and again... and again.

Sorta ruins the whole Avada Kadavra's unblockable clause if any wizard can block it with a paltry disarming charm. But who cares about stroytelling if it looks cool right?

I love the film style dueling, and find it far more effective then the books take. They needed to find a visual representation of the battle of wills/power. The wands interlocking in the clash of spells might look too much like Priori Incantatem, but it just works.

I am also a big fan of the use of non-vocalized magic, and apparent special abilities, like Voldy's "shadow" attack.

i made a mistake in my post. i meant Dursleys. the family was over the top evil.

sorry

The Dursleys are eternal, like Cinderella's step mother and sisters. They represent a real part of society.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I loves the clashing of elemental imagery in the Voldemort/ Dumbledore duel. It's funny, I haven't read the last book in a long time since it first came out, so sometimes I forget what got left out, but the last time I watched the DH movies I remembered and it became that really awkward moment where you remember that Dumbledore tried to take over the world in his youth

 

[mclay18]

YEEEEAAS, Williams' score for PoA is my favorite by far. I really wish his other (non-"Hedwig's..") themes had continued to be used throughout the series. Especially "Window to the Past."

That said, I don't think he necessarily would have stayed on even if Cuaron had.

I think Williams was originally supposed to score GOF, Cuaron or not, but he wanted to do Memoirs of a Geisha instead. He couldn't score both since the schedules conflicted, sadly enough.

I think Williams would've went back to his more bombastic style from the first two films, had he stayed for GOF. It would've probably been as intrusive as Doyle's score.

 

[Drizzle]

i made a mistake in my post. i meant Dursleys. the family was over the top evil.

sorry

Only in the first one, really. After that they sort of became comic relief due to their fear of Harry. I do wish that Harry and Dudley's goodbye was kept in the seventh film.

 

[flickchick85]

I think Williams was originally supposed to score GOF, Cuaron or not, but he wanted to do Memoirs of a Geisha instead. He couldn't score both since the schedules conflicted, sadly enough.

Ah, never knew that. I've also never heard his score for Memoirs of a Geisha, so I have no idea if I think it was ultimately for the best, but damn did I miss him when he left this series.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Only in the first one, really. After that they sort of became comic relief due to their fear of Harry. I do wish that Harry and Dudley's goodbye was kept in the seventh film.

It was a good character moment. Unfortunately, it didn't fit with how they chose to open the film. I understand why it was cut.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm a massive fan of the movies but have not read the books and tbh, I don't I ever will but could you elaborate on this, please.

I'm not the OP but I think I can take that one - It's a long depressing story, but basically his mother was a witch named Merope Gaunt who was from an old wizarding family (last descendants of Slytherin) who had in recent decades fallen on hard times and were basically living poor. I think it was quite the abusive household as well, as I recall (been a while since I last read it).

Voldemort's dad, Tom Riddle, was a Muggle golden boy from the wealthiest family in town whom Merope was desperately in love with. She ended up using a love potion on him to make him fall in love with her, and they got married. At some point after she became pregnant, she realized you don't do this to someone you love, so she stopped giving him the potion in the foolish hope that he could love her for real once he spent some time with her since she was pregnant with his child. Instead, he abandoned her and the baby immediately while she was still pregnant and she died in childbirth, leaving the kid to be raised in an orphanage. Not before giving the baby Tom's name. Of course, once Voldemort got older, first thing he did was go find his father and his current family and kill them all.

His hatred for Muggles pretty much stems from there.

 

[Marvolo]

I'm not the OP but I think I can take that one - It's a long depressing story, but basically his mother was a witch named Merope Gaunt who was from an old wizarding family (last descendants of Slytherin) who had in recent decades fallen on hard times and were basically living poor. I think it was quite the abusive household as well, as I recall (been a while since I last read it).

Voldemort's dad, Tom Riddle, was a Muggle golden boy from the wealthiest family in town whom Merope was desperately in love with. She ended up using a love potion on him to make him fall in love with her, and they got married. At some point after she became pregnant, she realized you don't do this to someone you love, so she stopped giving him the potion in the foolish hope that he could love her for real once he spent some time with her since she was pregnant with his child. Instead, he abandoned her and the baby immediately while she was still pregnant and she died in childbirth, leaving the kid to be raised in an orphanage. Not before giving the baby Tom's name. Of course, once Voldemort got older, first thing he did was go find his father and his current family and kill them all.

His hatred for Muggles pretty much stems from there.

I just love this backstory so damn much! So dark depressing and human. It makes Voldemort so much more than a caricature. Yet, Yates cut it.

 

[Hyde]

I think what makes the films feel special is that each movie is a different genre. This is also evidenced in the MCU, and Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy. The Philosopher's Stone is the fairytale fantasy. Chamber of Secrets is like a murder mystery, in a way. Prisoner of Azkaban is Gothic horror. Goblet of Fire was intended as something like North by Northwest but felt more like an action movie. Order of the Phoenix is the psychological political drama. Half-Blood Prince? I'll be honest, I haven't seen this film since like 2009 so I have no idea. The Deathly Hallows Part I is an on-the-road thriller, and Part II is a war epic.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just love this backstory so damn much! So dark depressing and human. It makes Voldemort so much more than a caricature. Yet, Yates cut it.

Yates didn't really cut that. He filmed what they wrote him, and he had a hand in editing, but that stuff wasn't going to be filmed. Blame Kloves and Heyman.

 

[Marvolo]

Yates didn't really cut that. He filmed what they wrote him, and he had a hand in editing, but that stuff wasn't going to be filmed. Blame Kloves and Heyman.

Yates was involved with Kloves and the script. He said from the beginning HBP would be the "sex drugs and rock and roll film of the series" figuratively speaking. None of those men, except maybe Heyman, had a proper handle on that book. They were trying to be edgy or pull in the teens or some other crap and lost the story in the process.