Has the bar been raised?

[Lily Adler]

With BvS and now X-Men: Apocalypse getting less than flattering reviews, has the measuring stick for quality CBMs been raised?

 

[DA_Champion]

I don't think so. The critics watch a lot of movies, so their standard will be norms across the film industry.

 

[Batmannerism]

Well, B v S was crappy, I haven't seen Apocalypse (I still will) but with films like Civil War out there, I think the bar has been massively raised.

Really, the bar was lifted in 2008 with the Dark Knight and Iron Man - after that our tolerance for films that were style without substance began draining away.

I think that since then the great films have really stood out - I mean the hype for Age of Ultron was enormous (based on how great Avengers was) so much so that it could never live up to it - and thus a good film got less love than it should have.

What makes Civil War an even greater triumph is that it follows on from a great film (Winter Solider) and gets better - which generally doesn't happen with 3rd chapters.

So, yes !

 

[def28]

You need a well made film, that adapts why these characters have worked for decades with solid storytelling. That's that.

Just cause movies are epic in scale does not make them good. ****** blockbusters have been getting criticized for decades and Superhero films are no exceptions.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I don't really know. However, I have noticed that their is a disturbing trend going on in reviews, especially major blockbusters with a high public awareness, that the middle ground is slowly fading away. Movies can't be Okay-Good anymore, they have to be Great or Bad. This affected BvS and it seems to be affecting Apocalypse as well. Just look as Forbes and their shameless click-baiting title.

 

[DACrowe]

With BvS and now X-Men: Apocalypse getting less than flattering reviews, has the measuring stick for quality CBMs been raised?

Cannot comment on Apocalypse, but Batman v Superman would have gotten bad reviews in 2016 or 2006 or 1996. It's just bad, bad, bad. I do get the sense from a lot of the X-Men reviews it's less of a bar being raised as the genre is reaching a saturation point--at least with critics. An average, middle of the road superhero movie probably is going to get a lot more negativity now than it did 10 years ago (which seems to be what a lot of Apocalypse reviews suggest).

But I don't think that has so much to do with higher standards as people growing restless with the genre, especially those who probably would rather not be watching it if it were not for work. I think Civil War is fabulous but we had better superhero movies (IMO) 4 years ago with The Avengers and even 8 years ago in most folks' opinions (TDK). It seems more to be a case of we've seen so many superhero movies that if you don't do something new with it, you're going to hit a wall. However, I am curious to see if the general audience is as harsh on Apocalypse.

With that said, it would seem Civil War is the winner this year unless Suicide Squad just blows people away, which would be pretty extraordinary after the reception Batman v Superman had. Time will tell.

 

[DACrowe]

Well, B v S was crappy, I haven't seen Apocalypse (I still will) but with films like Civil War out there, I think the bar has been massively raised.

Really, the bar was lifted in 2008 with the Dark Knight and Iron Man - after that our tolerance for films that were style without substance began draining away.

I think that since then the great films have really stood out - I mean the hype for Age of Ultron was enormous (based on how great Avengers was) so much so that it could never live up to it - and thus a good film got less love than it should have.

What makes Civil War an even greater triumph is that it follows on from a great film (Winter Solider) and gets better - which generally doesn't happen with 3rd chapters.

So, yes !

You see I would argue that Avengers: Age of Ultron is really quite mediocre. It is all flashy style and CGI action with little substance. Yet, it still got over 70% good reviews and made a billion dollars. But as a piece of cinema, while it has better action and is more faithful to its comics than, say, X-Men: The Last Stand, it is just as numbingly blah of a movie.

That is why I am not so sure standards are being raised. Though it would be curious if Marvel Studios released a movie like that or Thor: The Dark World again 2016 after Civil War. I really do think critics are reaching a breaking point with this genre.

 

[Quasimod0]

I believe the bar has been raised. Civil war (as well as some previous mcu films) has shown that you can have many different characters and still give each one their moments to shine, with speaking lines and all, while still not losing focus on the main characters. I don't think Singer has an excuse anymore to just waste very popular X-Men characters and reduce them to mute, one dimensional characters.

 

[Zarex]

I don't know if the quality bar has been raised - we're still getting good and bad comic book movies every year - but the competition has certainly heightened. Just this year there are three films featuring superheroes squaring off against each other on the big screen, all within a few months time. If the first film is getting blasted on the Tomatometer, you may as well stay home. There are lots of superheroes on the small screen and there's another cinematic blockbuster coming up right behind it.

 

[Sithborg]

Why does Apocalypse get lumped with BvS and Civil War? The Horsemen are villains.

 

[psylockolussus]

The OP is referring to the quality of the movies.

 

[Moridin]

You see I would argue that Avengers: Age of Ultron is really quite mediocre. It is all flashy style and CGI action with little substance. Yet, it still got over 70% good reviews and made a billion dollars. But as a piece of cinema, while it has better action and is more faithful to its comics than, say, X-Men: The Last Stand, it is just as numbingly blah of a movie.

That is why I am not so sure standards are being raised. Though it would be curious if Marvel Studios released a movie like that or Thor: The Dark World again 2016 after Civil War. I really do think critics are reaching a breaking point with this genre.

There's plenty substance in AoU, but it's poorly edited and a lot of detail blows by without notice, that my bigget problem with the film.

Strong themes of Home & Family;
Tony ultimately wants to put something in place to end the Avengers so he can "go home" and settle with Pepper.

Steve physically can't ever go home, thought maybe he missed his shot (with peggy), but has found a place with the Avengers. So it really doesn't sit well with him that Tony is trying to end that.

Nat can't have kids because of what happened in the Red Room. Is intrigued by Banner, "he avoids fighting because he knows he'll win", considers running away with him. Ultimately forgoes that to stay with the team & get the mission done (forcing Banner to Hulk out).

Banner's in two minds, he can't allow himself to have a family, though he desperately want one (even going back to A1 where he first meets Nat he rocks an empty crib saying "we don't everytime get what we want" with a longing look). He also considers running away with Nat but at a different point to her when she has now prioritised the team, they "missed their window" as he says in the bedroom convo. Ultimately he rejects the team and disappears.

Wanda & Pietro are orphans, all they have left is eachother. And, in part due to their own actions, even that is taken away.

Even Ultron wants somebody to have around because he's lonely. First it's the twins, then Widow.
Ultron basically being Starks tearaway kid ("don't compare me to Stark!" - "Oh junior, you're going too break your old man's heart" - "Stark can't tell )

And then there's Barton, the "man among gods" whose presence on the team is questioned by many ("pretending to need him really brings the team together"), Barton actually has what everyone else wants - a home and a family.

I don't think Thor arc really fits in that theme, at least I can't think of a way off the top of my head other than he simply part of the team.

Then there's the whole playing god thing, creating life and destroying it in a biblical sense. Stark and Banner create Ultron, Ultron begins the creation of Vision which is completed by Stark, Banner & Thor.
Ultron chooses a church as the centre point of his plan for sending a meteor down on humanity to wipe them out. As he recieves the vibranium he says "upon this rock I will build my church".

But again, it's a badly edited film.

There's probably more that I'm not thinking of, but I rambled too long already and this isn't the place for it.

 

[Zarex]

Why does Apocalypse get lumped with BvS and Civil War? The Horsemen are villains.

Regardless of who they are temporarily fighting alongside in the latest film, Storm, Psylocke and Angel are heroes.

 

[Flint Marko]

Marvel has 100% raised the bar. We can discuss the quality of each separate film, but the undeniable fact is that no one else in Hollywood has managed this level of consistency.

 

[Abudefduf]

A movie with a talking raccoon and tree got a 91% rate of approval on RT and killed it at the box-office.

Stuff like that has obviously spoiled people and made them far less willing to overlook mediocre attempts than before, especially when the potential to create a better product is clearly there.

 

[Greens]

A movie with a talking raccoon and tree got a 91% rate of approval on RT and killed it at the box-office.

Stuff like that has obviously spoiled people and made them far less willing to overlook mediocre attempts than before, especially when the potential to create a better product is clearly there.

GotG was a great success but we can stop saying the "talking raccoon and tree" thing. It's a space movie with weird creatures that were pretty much guaranteed to appeal to children and adults alike. It's not like we'd never had talking animals before.

 

[Abudefduf]

But a talking raccoon and tree were indeed part of that movie, that's an undisputable fact. I didn't say they were the main attraction. I'm not even a huge fan of GotG but even I'll never stop giving MS mad props for pulling it off. It's crazy.
Yes, they definitely raised the bar, those magnificent bastards. And to think I used to dislike them during Phase 1, lol.

Also, it's kinda ot but outside of the Narnia flicks I can't think of many successful movies with talking animals in it.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I don't really know. However, I have noticed that their is a disturbing trend going on in reviews, especially major blockbusters with a high public awareness, that the middle ground is slowly fading away. Movies can't be Okay-Good anymore, they have to be Great or Bad. This affected BvS and it seems to be affecting Apocalypse as well. Just look as Forbes and their shameless click-baiting title.

I can't really agree with that. We had several ok-to-good blockbusters just last year that did well. Furious 7, Jurassic World, Spectre, Age of Ultron, and Ant-Man all immediately come to mind. You also had a total classic in Mad Max Fury Road and one of the worst movies ever made in Fant4stic.

For the most part audiences and critics simply seem to call a spade a spade, whether now or 20 years ago.

 

[Greens]

I can't really agree with that. We had several ok-to-good blockbusters just last year that did well. Furious 7, Jurassic World, Spectre, Age of Ultron, and Ant-Man all immediately come to mind. You also had a total classic in Mad Max Fury Road and one of the worst movies ever made in Fant4stic.

For the most part audiences and critics simply seem to call a spade a spade, whether now or 20 years ago.

Agreed.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I can't really agree with that. We had several ok-to-good blockbusters just last year that did well. Furious 7, Jurassic World, Spectre, Age of Ultron, and Ant-Man all immediately come to mind. You also had a total classic in Mad Max Fury Road and one of the worst movies ever made in Fant4stic.

For the most part audiences and critics simply seem to call a spade a spade, whether now or 20 years ago.

You bring up good points. But recent films just strike me as odd how some of them have turned out. Critics hate Apocalypse for a generic plot, yet Deadpool's incredibly generic plot gets praised.

As for the question at hand, I think "raising the bar" is a harmful concept when criticism is concerned. It shouldn't matter what Marvel is doing, every film should be judged on its own merits.

 

[Greens]

You bring up good points. But recent films just strike me as odd how some of them have turned out. Critics hate Apocalypse for a generic plot, yet Deadpool's incredibly generic plot gets praised.

A generic plot can work if it's elevated by other factors, like it was in Deadpool.

 

[Quasimod0]

Or as it was in Fury Road last year.

 

[Erzengel]

2 years ago we had 4 CBM. 3 were praised, 1 was "mediocred". I think creme will always rise to the top though.

 

[Kobra]

With BvS and now X-Men: Apocalypse getting less than flattering reviews, has the measuring stick for quality CBMs been raised?

The bar was raised in 2008. Since then, no movie made that bar raise again.

I really can't explain BvS's reception. I understand the movie has a lot of flaws, but i just can't see it as the pile of garbage so many people claim it to be. That's why i strongly defend the theory of preconceived notions. Maybe i'm wrong, but i just can't see it. And i'm usually a very critical person. It's very rare for me to give a great rating to a CBM. In general, i just don't think they're very good films. But as disappointing as BvS was, i'm pretty sure it's not even close to be one of the worst CBM i've seen.

 

[Mjölnir]

The bar was raised in 2008. Since then, no movie made that bar raise again.

I really can't explain BvS's reception. I understand the movie has a lot of flaws, but i just can't see it as the pile of garbage so many people claim it to be. That's why i strongly defend the theory of preconceived notions. Maybe i'm wrong, but i just can't see it. And i'm usually a very critical person. It's very rare for me to give a great rating to a CBM. In general, i just don't think they're very good films. But as disappointing as BvS was, i'm pretty sure it's not even close to be one of the worst CBM i've seen.

And it didn't get reviews like the worst CBM's either. It's just that it wasn't good enough for many critics to recommend seeing it, but it doesn't mean that they all thought it was as bad as Catwoman or Fant4stic.

There's also plenty of aspects with lots of room for improvement when looking at 2008 films. There still are and just now we've gotten a movie that took another step in really bringing the comics to life in the more spectacular way, and it won't be the end station. We have to shy away less and less from the amazing parts of comics in movies and even TV isn't relegated to just very low powered and gritty anymore.