Homophobia in criticism of BF and B&R

One of the most annoying scenes for me is in B:F, where Robin is kissing some chick and an incredibly feathery sound effect plays. I cringed when I heard that.

Really Schumacher’s Batman films are so bad, no parody movie can make fun of it without doing a better job.

Gay or not, he raped the series.
 
i know alot of people did not like the riddler's batman forever look
but i think this

batman-promotional03.jpg


looks a hell of a lot better than this guy
the%20riddler.jpg
 
Im gonn ahave to say B&R is gay as whell. But Lost Boys is magna FIC!
 
anyone who is homophobic are just insecure about their own sexuality.
 
Let me preface this by disclaiming that I in no way believe Batman Forever and Batman & Robin to be good films or that they in any way reflect the "true" character of the Baman mythology. Undoubtedly they are ass. However I have become increasingly frustrated by the homophobia inherent in many people's criticism of Shumacher and his films and believe that such comments indicate a juvenile bigotry towards the director's sexuality.

I have read many suspect posts on this forum, mostly the perceived notion that the films' shortcomings are due to them being directed by a gay man, as if a gay director equals a gay batman! I believe that Shumacher's sexuality is conveniently scapegoated as a reason people dislike his approach to Batman, and that the O.T.T theatrical production design of the movies is associated with him being gay by fans.

I contest that there is anything gay about BF and B&R at all and I'll argue the points made by many fans time and again:

1. There is a homosexual subtext to the films - Where? Do Batman and Robin get it on any point in the films? Is Bruce Wayne presented as anything other than heterosexual in his interactions with the films' female characters? One could argue that the approach is camp, but camp does not equate gayness, it equates intended or ironic silliness, certainly not a homoerotic subtext.

2. Gratuitous male ass shots - Curious, nobody mentions the gratuitous female boob and ass shots of the films, of which there are several. Seemingly nobody can handle equal opportunity gratuitous nudity/sexuality. It's symptomatic of the straight male gaze that rules our culture. It's ok for women to be sexualised for male consumption, yet men cannot be sexualised in the same manner without it being unwholesome or gay! You don't see women mock throwing up in their mouths at the sight of batgirl's bat-boobs do you?

3. Bat-Nipples! - If there's anything as overused and cliche as a criticism against the Shumacher films, it's this. Get over it you big babies! Seriously what's the trauma here, don't you have any nipples yourselves?! Are you really that scared by the sight of the human male form? Does Batman rub them at any point in the films?! The only way the bat-nipples connote homoeroticism would be if Chris O'Donnell had started licking on them. Shumacher obviously intended the batsuit to be more representational of the human form, to appear more naturalistic and organic than the previous batsuits, and guess what, that means nipples. Personally I don't think much of the batsuits myself, but whatever the rights and wrongs of it Shumacher wanted them to appear more statuesque. Again that does not equal homoeroticism.

Discuss.
you do know they only added nipples and ass/boob shots to batgirl because people did complain it was to ''gay'' right? I hve no prob. with homosexuals or homosequalism, but it isnt for batman
 
i honestly think joel could have made a decent batman movie, it was WB's desision to make it all campy and more ''kid friendly''
 
The real breakpoint of Batman & Robin is the fact that Batman was treated like a joke. That's the big difference to, say, the Adam West series.
 
That's true, B+R treated the whole idea as a joke, which is as much down to the scriptwriter as it is to Joel.

Joel could have made an immense Batman movie, if WB hadn't asked him to tone it down.
 
The real breakpoint of Batman & Robin is the fact that Batman was treated like a joke. That's the big difference to, say, the Adam West series.

I think you've got it backwards. Adam West's Batman is an absurd figure. George Clooney's Batman is in a film that at times is very silly, but Batman himself is played seriously (just not as a dark figure).
 
Batman is gay? Woah...

The Batman in the TV series was intentionally camp, Clooney admits he played Batman 'gay' maybe that says a lot about Clooney? He said it as almost a spiteful thing, like 'yeah the fans hated me but I played him gay so nuh'
 
I think you've got it backwards. Adam West's Batman is an absurd figure. George Clooney's Batman is in a film that at times is very silly, but Batman himself is played seriously (just not as a dark figure).

No, because in the Adam West series you laughed WITH the characters, in B&R you laugh about the characters. There is nothing absurd about Adam West Batman, it's the stories. B&R has some serious scenes (I think there you can see they wanted to go a different route in the beginning), that is correct, but to say that he played Batman seriously doesn't seem right. He played him as a comedy character but Adam West was Batman in a campy environment.
 
No, because in the Adam West series you laughed WITH the characters, in B&R you laugh about the characters. There is nothing absurd about Adam West Batman, it's the stories. B&R has some serious scenes (I think there you can see they wanted to go a different route in the beginning), that is correct, but to say that he played Batman seriously doesn't seem right. He played him as a comedy character but Adam West was Batman in a campy environment.

Are you absolutely sure you know who Adam West is?
 
I knew it, I just didn't want to admit it...

Adam West was intentionally campy, it was a product of its time. B+R was not.
 
No, he's the bastard love child of Charlie Chaplin and Marla Singer.

Right?
 
Ass-shots and nipples are 'just not batman'?
Honestly, jesus, have you guys read a comic in your lives?
Ass-shots and nipples is all you get when there's a girl on scene. All Schumacher did was switch the sex. Comics may just be for boys (at least the sexual appeal is... the men are sexless ken-dolls in the comics), but both sexes watch these films. And girls like man-ass and manly chests.

I remember being a bit annoyed at that one BTAS episode where they send up 'Joel' for imagining that the Batmobile can ride up walls (while he plays with a feather boa)... Homophobic jabs aren't particularly clever, nor is his sexuality the reason why his Batman films were utterly awful.
 
Sure it's juvenile. But this is a comic book character message board, after all.
 
^ lol

I agree, Batman and Robin sucked for a lot more reasons then butt shots.
 

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