Honestly, what are your thoughts on Kill Bill?

[Tanin]

What is that from?

 

[Lencho01]

What is that from?

Superman: Miracle Monday.

 

[Silvermoth]

Ok I just want to think about something for a second.

I've watched kill bill heaps of times and I've always considered the bride and vernits to have been friends once upon a time. Out of all the deadly viper assassination squad I reckon those two got along the best.

So why do you think vernita turned up on that day at El Paso, Texas? Do you think she would have done just about anything Bill asked her to (I mean she was an assassin, you can't really expect her to have a lot of morals)? In which case do you think if the bride had been asked would she have carried out an assassination on one of the other members if life had gone differently?

Or do you think Vernita was simply tempted by the chance to do one more horrible thing and then be able to leave the business forever and focus on raising a family? We really didn't get much of vernita's back story so I'm very curious what her motivations were on that day

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I honestly never got the vibe that Beatrix and Vernita were tight in any way at all. If anything I think all the members of the Vipers would have some kind of jealousy going on that Bill doted on Thurman's character and had seemed to be grooming her for even greater things. I think in the end they all were just as Bill described himself... Cold blooded killers. The interesting thing to me was that the one character we get some I depth backstory on, O-Ren, given her story, you would think she of all of them wouldn't have gone along with Bill's plan, but even she didn't show any kind of regret really. Vernita simply knew that the simple life she had set up for herself was in jeopardy once Black Mamba showed up alive and well on her doorstep, and being a mother she tried her damndest to escape her fate. But, again... She was a cold blooded killer that was going to do anything. The one person that seemed to really show any empathy to The Bride was Bud I felt.

 

[Silvermoth]

I'm not sure if bud actually did show any remorse. He may have had empathy as you said but he also shot her in the chest with a shotgun.

I honestly think o-ren was a bit of an introvert and a capitalist. She needed bill to get to the top of the yakuza so as far as she was concerned it was all just a job. I get why she isolated herself when you consider the pain of her family and all that.

I don't know, there's just something about the way the bride and vernita almost seem to have a laugh in the kitchen together that implied they used to be friends I reckon. Even the bride at her maximum fury still had a bit of a laugh with her. To be honest I reckon the bride may have even tried to invite vernita to her wedding which is how bill found out about it in the first place.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'm not sure if bud actually did show any remorse. He may have had empathy as you said but he also shot her in the chest with a shotgun.

I honestly think o-ren was a bit of an introvert and a capitalist. She needed bill to get to the top of the yakuza so as far as she was concerned it was all just a job. I get why she isolated herself when you consider the pain of her family and all that.

I don't know, there's just something about the way the bride and vernita almost seem to have a laugh in the kitchen together that implied they used to be friends I reckon. Even the bride at her maximum fury still had a bit of a laugh with her. To be honest I reckon the bride may have even tried to invite vernita to her wedding which is how bill found out about it in the first place.

I... Where is this coming from? Forgive me amigo, but... I just don't see this supposed connection at all. They are actually quite icy, in their dialog with each other. There's no laugh to be had between friends in that scene. Beatrix lays out what is happening in the fullest, with no humor. She tells her it's eye for an eye but that she's not interested in involving Vernita's family, especially her daughter.

As for Bud... Well I did say the Vipers were all cold blooded killers. Bud showed the most remorse of all of them. He told Bill that his betrayal was wrong, that they were getting what was coming to them and it's pretty much intimated that the estrangement between Bill and his brother was based on what went down in that El Paso church... But that empathy didn't mean Bud was gonna lay down and die either. He was just honest with himself about who and what he was and how something he made a choice to do was now coming to bite him on the ass.

You can see what you want but I just don't get any vibe of Vernita and Beatrix having a friendly relationship before the El Paso incident.

 

[CB Fan]

Lol at a friendship between Vernita and Beatrice. The only one I thought was her friend, or at least respected acquaintance, was O-Ren. From the "silly rabbit" line to Os final apology there was something between them two.

 

[Silvermoth]

I... Where is this coming from? Forgive me amigo, but... I just don't see this supposed connection at all. They are actually quite icy, in their dialog with each other. There's no laugh to be had between friends in that scene. Beatrix lays out what is happening in the fullest, with no humor. She tells her it's eye for an eye but that she's not interested in involving Vernita's family, especially her daughter.

As for Bud... Well I did say the Vipers were all cold blooded killers. Bud showed the most remorse of all of them. He told Bill that his betrayal was wrong, that they were getting what was coming to them and it's pretty much intimated that the estrangement between Bill and his brother was based on what went down in that El Paso church... But that empathy didn't mean Bud was gonna lay down and die either. He was just honest with himself about who and what he was and how something he made a choice to do was now coming to bite him on the ass.

You can see what you want but I just don't get any vibe of Vernita and Beatrix having a friendly relationship before the El Paso incident.

The bride isn't a laugher but she did smile at vernita when she made that joke about wanting to be black mamba.

I really don't think budd was so empathic. Someone with empathy wouldn't bury someone alive. I think budd was as much of a s***head as bill was. He definitely expressed regret but I think that was more because of what happened to him post El Paso as opposed to thinking it was wrong to kill a woman's family and friends during her wedding rehearsal (or try to at least)

 

[terry78]

I think the only one that really hated her was Elle. The rest were all kind of "I'm just doing my job."

 

[Blind_Lawyer]

I thought Vol.1 was amazing. No, it's not all that original and really is a jerk off session to Kung fu/Wuxia films, with a healthy dose of revenge flicks and grind house cinema. The whole movie was like having a conversation with film geek about these genres. And since I'm a fan of these genres, I'm loving this conversation. It's like an inside joke that I'm fortunate enough to get, and as a result, it makes the movie feel a little bit more special than it might to some other people.

I loved what Tarantino did with the movie, with the jerky and quick tilts, pans and zooms, the far-east-meets-70's in terms of music, the Kato masks, the mysticism, the swords on planes, Hatori Hanzo as a character, the Shaw Bros. logo...just all of it.

Vol. 2 was much more polarizing. Some scenes I loved and others I loathed. Overall, it might be my least favorite Tarantino film. I don't know. I haven't seen Pulp Fiction in a while, but I was never a huge fan of that one.

But, Vol. 1 is right up there with Jackie Brown and Death Proof for me.

Yes. Death Proof is one of my favorite Quentin Tarantino movies, while Pulp Fiction is one of my least favorites. You did read that correctly...

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I really have never gone over what so many people's problems with Vol. 2 is. I love it as much as part one. It indeed is slower in pacing and is more about learning about character history, but I loved all that stuff. It's still this mix of Kung Fu and revenge western and still stylish as all hell to me.

What exactly is the criticism people have? I would like to know.

 

[Blind_Lawyer]

I really have never gone over what so many people's problems with Vol. 2 is. I love it as much as part one. It indeed is slower in pacing and is more about learning about character history, but I loved all that stuff. It's still this mix of Kung Fu and revenge western and still stylish as all hell to me.

What exactly is the criticism people have? I would like to know.

It's slow. It's boring. And that whole scene in Mexico with the Acuna Boys and Michael Parks is so unnecessary that it ruins what little momentum the movie has going into the climax. It sucks the excitement out of a climax that took two movies to build to. I have no idea why that scene was anywhere near the final cut of that film.

And while the scene with Budd and his Wolverine-looking boss was screwing up his work schedule was entertaining, it was completely unnecessary to the story.

So my criticism? The movie has some fat that should have been trimmed. A great writer and director QT may be, not everything he shoots needs to make it to the final edit. This movie shows that more than any of his others.

And don't even get me started on the ending which is really the beginning of years and years of therapy for that poor child.

But I loved the Pi Mei stuff and really enjoyed the scene where Beatrix finds out she's pregnant.

 

[BatmanFanboy]

I really have never gone over what so many people's problems with Vol. 2 is. I love it as much as part one. It indeed is slower in pacing and is more about learning about character history, but I loved all that stuff. It's still this mix of Kung Fu and revenge western and still stylish as all hell to me.

What exactly is the criticism people have? I would like to know.

I don't get it either, Vol 2 enhances Vol 1 and vice versa. They are meant to be one cohesive story. Vol 2 maybe slower but there is so much important character stuff that is more rewarding than having another 90 minutes of action.

 

[Lord]

It's slow. It's boring. And that whole scene in Mexico with the Acuna Boys and Michael Parks is so unnecessary that it ruins what little momentum the movie has going into the climax. It sucks the excitement out of a climax that took two movies to build to. I have no idea why that scene was anywhere near the final cut of that film.

And while the scene with Budd and his Wolverine-looking boss was screwing up his work schedule was entertaining, it was completely unnecessary to the story.

So my criticism? The movie has some fat that should have been trimmed. A great writer and director QT may be, not everything he shoots needs to make it to the final edit. This movie shows that more than any of his others.

And don't even get me started on the ending which is really the beginning of years and years of therapy for that poor child.

But I loved the Pi Mei stuff and really enjoyed the scene where Beatrix finds out she's pregnant.

Not every film needs to obey the general hollywood rules or to always have the same kind of momentum when aproaching the end, Tarantino has obviously seen various European films, and his pacing is similar. He has never been about balancing action with plot throghout his films, which is why the action scenes in Kill Bill are so long, while the talking bits in Vol. 2 are so too. I frankly like this aproach, he blends elements of all of cinema and makes something that is definitely his.

Regarding the Budd scenes, it's for us to sympathise with his character, every person on the bride's list was given a glimpse towards their lives before we saw them being killed, which just made them more 3 dimensional, imao.

 

[titansupes]

Count me in as loving Vol. 2 as well.

 

[BatLobster]

Vol. 2 > Vol 1. IMHO

Vol. 1 is more fun and wild, but Vol. 2 is more emotionally engaging for me.

 

[titansupes]

It's funny, when I first saw the first movie, I didn't like it at all. It was my first Tarantino movie, and I just didn't get it. I was expecting something more straightforward, I'm sure... But I ended up seeing the second, just because I saw a little clip of the Kiddo/Elle fight and thought it looked great. Ended up really liking it.

It was only after I watched Pulp Fiction for the first time years later that Tarantino really blew me away. That was when I really got it. Then I watched his entire filmograghy and really fell in love with the KB movies.

I'm not sure if I could choose between them right now... as you said, BatLobsterRises, Vol. 1 is definitely a great ride, but Vol. 2 might win out for me because of all the great character work and emotion in there.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Tarantino keeps saying he wants' to do a Volume 3 but that looks like it will never happen.

 

[Erzengel]

I remember being let down a bit by the ending with Bill? Until, on repeat viewings it is really fitting. But previously, I wanted a longer drawn out fight.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Death Proof is one of my favorite Quentin Tarantino movies, while Pulp Fiction is one of my least favorites.

There may be hope for you yet. I wasn't sure after the HEAT thread...

I had no probs w/KB Vol II. Love em both.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Also I don't dislike Pulp Fiction, but it couldn't withstand the massive amount of viewings back when it came out. I practically have it memorized and haven't felt the desire to watch it in years.

 

[Fallen Angel]

WT you cut me deep bro .We were on the same page r.e HEAT but with this Pulp Fiction bombshell, how do we move forward?

 

[Blind_Lawyer]

Also I don't dislike Pulp Fiction, but it couldn't withstand the massive amount of viewings back when it came out. I practically have it memorized and haven't felt the desire to watch it in years.

Yeah, I'm sure over exposure plays a big part in my feelings toward the movie too. But, I also feel like it's more of a series of loosely connected vignettes instead of an overall cohesive story. It has some interesting scenes and some very quotable dialogue, but overall, it's pretty uninteresting to me.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

WT you cut me deep bro .We were on the same page r.e HEAT but with this Pulp Fiction bombshell, how do we move forward?

With forgiveness comes healing.

 

[CB Fan]

Tarantino keeps saying he wants' to do a Volume 3 but that looks like it will never happen.

It was looking like he decided to ditch the idea before this year when he revealed that he was reconsidering it because Uma really wants to do it.

I like both volumes equally and find their are times when I may just want to watch one and not the other depending on my mood.