How close is Maguire to the comics?

[henzINNIT]

No. They're simply not the same.

For the last time, you weren't responding to the point raised. They weren't talking about the basket-ball scene. They referred to a scene later on where Parker catches a football without looking and throws it away, bending a metal goal post.

I can only assume you have dodged his because it hurts your argument.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

For the last time, you weren't responding to the point raised. They weren't talking about the basket-ball scene. They referred to a scene later on where Parker catches a football without looking and throws it away, bending a metal goal post.

I can only assume you have dodged his because it hurts your argument.

Oh, that scene where the director made sure to imply that no one saw what Peter did. In fact you can see the football players looking around clueless and one of them saying "Who did that?"

Little different than making sure everybody noticed (and laughed at) the spider-webs coming out of your wrists, ain't it?

 

[craigdbfan]

Let's remember to keep things cordial gentlemen.

Just a general reminder.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Oh, that scene where the director made sure to imply that no one saw what Peter did. In fact you can see the football players looking around clueless and one of them saying "Who did that?"

Little different than making sure everybody noticed (and laughed at) the spider-webs coming out of your wrists, ain't it?

Once again, no one actually saw webs coming out of his wrists- or even knew that they were webs or would ever even assume that they were webs. For all they know it's a rope or string.

And no, the director didn't imply that no one knew. "Looking around clueless"? Again, with the making things up.

Again, if people aren't suspicious of a guy who jumps 20 feet and breaks the backboard, or a guy who sticks to the subway ceiling and rips a steel rod out of the ground, then they won't be suspicious of a guy who beats up the school jock. Essentially, what you are saying is that this kind of thing is perfectly okay in TASM, but awful in SM1. This logic is inconsistent. Your argument doesn't hold up.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Yes, they did. In fact they laughed at Peter dragging those trays with spider-webs coming out of his wrists. And then he had troubled because the trays got stuck at the cafeteria doors. Right there, in front of people who know him.

They would have no idea and never assume that they were webs. Why would they?

I was talking about what he did at the school, since there people know him. Or that guy at the wrestling place, who knew him, his face, his "Spider-man" nickname, who was robbed and saw Peter letting the thief escape.... and yet he didn't assume that that "Spider-man" was the same Spider-man, and even when he had every reason to have his revenge against him, he never went to the Bugle claiming he knew the guy's face.

Okay...how does that make TASM Peter demonstarting his powers to a basketball court or subway car full of people any better? Oh, that's right, it doesn't. You don't actually have a counter argument.

Again, people that don't know Peter. Unlike his school mates.

The kids on the basketball court that go to his school, who watched Peter jump 20+ feet up into the air and smash the backboard into a million pieces don't know him?

No, cliches in TASM are nowhere near as outdated and caricature-like as the ones in Raimi, no matter how many of them we could list.

Again, you're a little confused in your use of these words. You can't seem to grasp that they weren't "outdated" or "caricatures", but a DIFFERENT kind of humour than TASM. Raimi's movies had a very dry, self aware sense of humour and Webb's have a very obvious, in your face sense of humour.

One girl after she pitied him for being everyone's bullying victim (including the school bus driver). But then again, getting MJ was the easiest thing in the world. At least Raimi's version.

Right. There you go ignoring the fact that Gwen and Betty both flirted with Peter as well as MJ.

And you think that MJ wanted to be with Peter because she pitied him? lol. Did you even watch the movie? You're obviously trolling now.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Once again, no one actually saw webs coming out of his wrists- or even knew that they were webs or would ever even assume that they were webs. For all they know it's a rope or string.

Oh yes, they saw them. Which is why they laughed, remember?

And no, the director didn't imply that no one knew. "Looking around clueless"? Again, with the making things up.

You should check your dvd before posting, man. The movie disagrees with you.

"Who did that" implies they don't know who did it. Laughing at the webs implies they saw what happened. Big difference.

Again, if people aren't suspicious of a guy who jumps 20 feet and breaks the backboard, or a guy who sticks to the subway ceiling and rips a steel rod out of the ground, then they won't be suspicious of a guy who beats up the school jock. Essentially, what you are saying is that this kind of thing is perfectly okay in TASM, but awful in SM1. This logic is inconsistent. Your argument doesn't hold up.

If the guys in the train are suspicious, that's their thing. They don't know Peter or his name.

School mates are a different story.

Or that guy at the wrestling place who knew Peter's face and "Spider-man" nickname and had every reason to get back at him after Peter let the thief go. But... he just didn't.



****************************

They would have no idea and never assume that they were webs. Why would they?

Because weeks later they saw this Spider-man character that throws spider-webs just like Peter did in the cafeteria?

Okay...how does that make TASM Peter demonstarting his powers to a basketball court or subway car full of people any better? Oh, that's right, it doesn't. You don't actually have a counter argument.

Because in the basketball court he didn't do something that indicated that he was Spider-man. Agility, okay, he could have worked out. But Spider-webs?

The kids on the basketball court that go to his school, who watched Peter jump 20+ feet up into the air and smash the backboard into a million pieces don't know him?

Yes, but jumping high is not something people hadn't seen in many basketball games.

Again, you're a little confused in your use of these words. You can't seem to grasp that they weren't "outdated" or "caricatures", but a DIFFERENT kind of humour than TASM. Raimi's movies had a very dry, self aware sense of humour and Webb's have a very obvious, in your face sense of humour.

Raimi, dry humor? It couldn't be more obvious. "So this is the nerd, that's why everybody, from his classmates to the school bus driver feel compelled to bully him for no reason whatsoever. If he buys flowers, the vendor bullies him, if he wants a drink someone else picks it up first almost on purpose. If he flirts with the secretary, she turns him down quick. Even if he walks, he trips over. He is a nerd, audience must be reminded of this in every single scene of this."

That is obvious, in your face.

Curb your Enthusiasm. That's dry humor.

Right. There you go ignoring the fact that Gwen and Betty both flirted with Peter as well as MJ.

Betty?

When Peter mets her, he tries to flirt: "I am Peter" Betty says absolutely nothing. "I am a photographer," he insists. "Yes, I can see that'" ends Betty just to shut the conversation quick. Next shot, disappointment is all over Peter's face as his social incompetence has made him fail once again.

Betty was far from flirting with him.

Only time he was close to flirt with Betty was when he was wearing the black suit.

And Peter, in what is maybe the only time he thought out of the box, only got MJ when he went behind his best friend's back and stole her from Harry.

And you think that MJ wanted to be with Peter because she pitied him? lol. Did you even watch the movie? You're obviously trolling now.

Care to tell me what was her reason?

 

[Green Goblin]

Wonder where the words "lets discuss Garfield's PP/SM and compare him to Maguire!" are in the title lol. There is a thread for that.

 

[Green Goblin]

Let's remember to keep things cordial gentlemen.

Just a general reminder.

This is the Spider-Man boards. There is no middle ground between Rami's Trilogy and Webb's Reboot. The two will always be locked in a death battle and never shall the two admit defeat.

It's like Trench Warfare lol

 

[Vid Electricz]

Oh yes, they saw them. Which is why they laughed, remember?

They laughed because Flash got food dumped on his head and Peter got the tray stuck in the door. Why would they assume it was organic spider webbing? They probably assumed it was a rope or string. Again, it is never implied or explicitly stated that any students think/realize/understand that it is a web. Sorry.

It's the same way that no one at Peter's school suspects or questions his powers even though his basketball display was obviously superhuman.

These are things you accept in movies like this. Are you also confused as to why People don't realize Clark Kent is Superman? lol.

You should check your dvd before posting, man. The movie disagrees with you.

"Who did that" implies they don't know who did it. Laughing at the webs implies they saw what happened. Big difference.

It's never implied that they knew they were webs. Ever. So that point is moot.

As far as the football scene goes, It's been a while since I've seen the movie. I was thinking of the part where the coach asks him to play for the team and he says “too dangerous”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJxsnPM9WJw


This part aside, a gym full of people saw his obviously superhuman display on the basketball court.

If the guys in the train are suspicious, that's their thing. They don't know Peter or his name.

School mates are a different story.

Or that guy at the wrestling place who knew Peter's face and "Spider-man" nickname and had every reason to get back at him after Peter let the thief go. But... he just didn't.

****************************

Yes, like school mates who saw him stick a ball to his hand and then jump 20+ feet and smash the backboard to a million pieces. Obviously a superhuman act. What's your excuse for that?

Because weeks later they saw this Spider-man character that throws spider-webs just like Peter did in the cafeteria?

More like months. Again, no one actually saw Peter shoot any webs, nor would they have reason to assume they were webs. so that argument is out.

Obviously no one remembers or makes any connection anyway, the same way that they don't remember/make a connection in TASM. Your argument is flawed.

Because in the basketball court he didn't do something that indicated that he was Spider-man. Agility, okay, he could have worked out. But Spider-webs?

Sticking the ball to his hand? Jumping 20+ feet into the air? Smashing the backboard? Riiiight. Not suspicious at all. The fact that you give this a pass while deriding SM1 shows your hypocrisy.

Yes, but jumping high is not something people hadn't seen in many basketball games.

Sticking a ball to ones hand? Jumping 20+ feet in the air? Riiiiiight. No professional or olympic athlete can even do that. He's obviously superhuman, but everyone seems to magically forget about this act.

Raimi, dry humor? It couldn't be more obvious. "So this is the nerd, that's why everybody, from his classmates to the school bus driver feel compelled to bully him for no reason whatsoever. If he buys flowers, the vendor bullies him, if he wants a drink someone else picks it up first almost on purpose. If he flirts with the secretary, she turns him down quick. Even if he walks, he trips over. He is a nerd, audience must be reminded of this in every single scene of this."

That is obvious, in your face.

Curb your Enthusiasm. That's dry humor.

Yes, much of Raimi's humour is deadpan and very self aware (as well as slapstick). Obviously you've not seen too many of his movies and if you have, it's gone well over your head.

Now the humour in TASM is obvious and in your face. The bathroom scene, the subway scene, the basketball scene. It goes on and on. It's like stuff you see in Disney movies for pre-teens.

Down trodden Peter Parker has the "old Parker luck"? Wow. Sounds just like the comics where Peter is often befallen with a series of encounters with jerks and plain old bad luck.

Betty?

When Peter mets her, he tries to flirt: "I am Peter" Betty says absolutely nothing. "I am a photographer," he insists. "Yes, I can see that'" ends Betty just to shut the conversation quick. Next shot, disappointment is all over Peter's face as his social incompetence has made him fail once again.

Betty was far from flirting with him.

Only time he was close to flirt with Betty was when he was wearing the black suit.

And Peter, in what is maybe the only time he thought out of the box, only got MJ when he went behind his best friend's back and stole her from Harry.

Yes, this still counts. Sorry. Also, Gwen constantly flirting with Peter? What's your excuse for that? lol.

Care to tell me what was her reason?

lol. Well, since I watched the movie and paid attention to it, I can tell you that she fell for Peter because throughout the course of the movie, he was the only one that was there for her (because he cared about her). At the end of the movie, she realizes the error of her ways in dating people like Flash and Harry in lieu of someone who has always been there for her.

Now tell me why Gwen likes Peter in TASM.

 

[Green Goblin]

Gwen liked Peter in TASM because they were similar in interests. Both had a passion in science and had a friendly rivalry.

I thought their relationship was more believable because she was geeky enough to fall for him.

Just an opinion...

 

[Senator Pleasury]

They laughed because Flash got food dumped on his head and Peter got the tray stuck in the door. Why would they assume it was organic spider webbing? They probably assumed it was a rope or string. Again, it is never implied or explicitly stated that any students think/realize/understand that it is a web. Sorry.

Wrong, they also laughed when they saw those webs dragging the trays and those trays got stuck at the closed doors. Sorry.

It's the same way that no one at Peter's school suspects or questions his powers even though his basketball display was obviously superhuman.

A big jump is one thing, one that has been seen in athletes and basketball players. Spider-webs cannot be explained like that. Specially when everybody in NY knew about Spider-man doing the same thing.

These are things you accept in movies like this. Are you also confused as to why People don't realize Clark Kent is Superman? lol.

Yeah, that's another movie made by a different director. Doesn't make Raimi's poor decisions right.

It's never implied that they knew they were webs. Ever. So that point is moot.

No one could have assumed they were spider-webs that vry day.

But when Spider-man got known a few weeks later....

Like with that wrestling place guy. The one who knew Peter's face, Spider-man nickname, had every reason to get back at him for allowing the thief escape... and did nothing about it.

As far as the football scene goes, It's been a while since I've seen the movie. I was thinking of the part where the coach asks him to play for the team and he says “too dangerous”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJxsnPM9WJw

Yes. What about it.

Anyways, you can see how they're asking "who did that?" implying they didn't see who did it. Quite different than when they see spider-webs starting at Peter's wrists and laugh at that.

This part aside, a gym full of people saw his obviously superhuman display on the basketball court.

Many have seen great jumps at basketball courts. Spider-webs... not so much.

Yes, like school mates who saw him stick a ball to his hand and then jump 20+ feet and smash the backboard to a million pieces. Obviously a superhuman act. What's your excuse for that?

That jumping high is a far more common thing than... say, spider-webs?

More like months. Again, no one actually saw Peter shoot any webs, nor would they have reason to assume they were webs. so that argument is out.

Later on they could put two and two together. After all the webs got stuck to the trays and everyone saw them starting at Peter's wrists. Well, maybe I'm being unfair and Raimi took care of that, after all in his movies Spider-man's spider-webs magically disappear all the time from one shot to the next.

Obviously no one remembers or makes any connection anyway, the same way that they don't remember/make a connection in TASM. Your argument is flawed.

In a world where characters are one dimensional, the chance of them making deductions is something unlikely.

But when people don't see something as obvious as spider-webs, people might not make connections that easily.

Sticking the ball to his hand? Jumping 20+ feet into the air? Smashing the backboard? Riiiight. Not suspicious at all. The fact that you give this a pass while deriding SM1 shows your hypocrisy.

No, it was unexpected from peter, but if extremely trained you can come close to that. Spider-webs.... not so much.

Sticking a ball to ones hand? Jumping 20+ feet in the air? Riiiiiight. No professional or olympic athlete can even do that. He's obviously superhuman, but everyone seems to magically forget about this act.

No, it was unexpected from peter, but if extremely trained you can come close to that. Spider-webs.... not so much.

Yes, much of Raimi's humour is deadpan and very self aware (as well as slapstick). Obviously you've not seen too many of his movies and if you have, it's gone well over your head.

Well, when crappy humor is in all of a director's filmography... that doesn't make it any better.

Now the humour in TASM is obvious and in your face. The bathroom scene, the subway scene, the basketball scene. It goes on and on. It's like stuff you see in Disney movies for pre-teens.

It's more like the same Raimi did with poorer results (the bedroom scene, the school scene).

Down trodden Peter Parker has the "old Parker luck"? Wow. Sounds just like the comics where Peter is often befallen with a series of encounters with jerks and plain old bad luck.

And many times, he talks back and don't just accepts everything. And I don't remember that comic where the school bus driver thinks it's funny to bully Peter every day.

Yes, this still counts. Sorry. Also, Gwen constantly flirting with Peter? What's your excuse for that? lol.

No, it doesn't. Because you said that "Betty flirted with Peter" and she didn't. You were wrong. And it was only when Peter acted under the influence of an alien that he had a chance.

lol. Well, since I watched the movie and paid attention to it, I can tell you that she fell for Peter because throughout the course of the movie, he was the only one that was there for her (because he cared about her). At the end of the movie, she realizes the error of her ways in dating people like Flash and Harry in lieu of someone who has always been there for her.

That's a lot of BS. He barely ran into her a couple of times in the street and happened to live with her boyfriend. That's all Peter did for her that she thought was "being there."

If anything, and being extremely generous with Raimi, it could have been Peter's audacity of going behind his best friend's back and try to steal his girlfriend that MJ valued the most in Peter.

Now tell me why Gwen likes Peter in TASM.

Easy. He was the only one brave enough to face Flash all by himself.

 

[S. Grundy]

lol. Well, since I watched the movie and paid attention to it, I can tell you that she fell for Peter because throughout the course of the movie, he was the only one that was there for her (because he cared about her). At the end of the movie, she realizes the error of her ways in dating people like Flash and Harry in lieu of someone who has always been there for her.

Now tell me why Gwen likes Peter in TASM.

I wouldn't bother arguing this with him, his idea of how a relationships work is very grade school. Two people holding hands = stealing a girlfriend.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Wrong, they also laughed when they saw those webs dragging the trays and those trays got stuck at the closed doors. Sorry.

Sorry what? lol. Sorry for your increasingly desperate attempts at discrediting one movie and praising of another? I accept your apology.

Yes, they saw the tray get stuck, but again, there is no implication that anyone saw the web coming directly out of his wrist.

A big jump is one thing, one that has been seen in athletes and basketball players. Spider-webs cannot be explained like that. Specially when everybody in NY knew about Spider-man doing the same thing.

Nope. No skinny 17 year old boy can stick a ball to his hand, jump 20+ feet AND smash the backboard.

Yeah, that's another movie made by a different director. Doesn't make Raimi's poor decisions right.

It's ALL fantasy though, and suspension of disbelief. That's how sci-fi/fantasy/adventure stories work. The fact that you don't understand that is worrisome and a little disconcerting...

No one could have assumed they were spider-webs that vry day.

But when Spider-man got known a few weeks later....

Like with that wrestling place guy. The one who knew Peter's face, Spider-man nickname, had every reason to get back at him for allowing the thief escape... and did nothing about it.

Same thing with the subway then. Those guys saw his face and saw him stick to the ceiling. How is that different than the wrestling promoter seeing his face? Answer: it's not.

Anyways, you can see how they're asking "who did that?" implying they didn't see who did it. Quite different than when they see spider-webs starting at Peter's wrists and laugh at that.

This never happened in the movie. Period. They see peter running away holding a white string attached to a tray (for all they know). They didn't see it come from his wrist and didn't know it was a web.

Many have seen great jumps at basketball courts. Spider-webs... not so much.

Not a skinny 17 year old boy jumping 20+ feet and shattering the backboard. That's superhuman.

That jumping high is a far more common thing than... say, spider-webs?

Not a skinny 17 year old boy jumping 20+ feet and shattering the backboard. That's superhuman. They didn't know or assume they were webs. That argument is out no matter how hard you try to push it.

Later on they could put two and two together. After all the webs got stuck to the trays and everyone saw them starting at Peter's wrists. Well, maybe I'm being unfair and Raimi took care of that, after all in his movies Spider-man's spider-webs magically disappear all the time from one shot to the next.

Never happened. Watch the movie again. No one actually sees any "web" coming from his wrist, and it's never implied.

In a world where characters are one dimensional, the chance of them making deductions is something unlikely.

And apparently no one makes such deductions in TASM- even given their equally ample evidence in parallel to SM1, so by your logic, the characters in TASM are one dimensional. Good job.

But when people don't see something as obvious as spider-webs, people might not make connections that easily.

No one knew they were spider webs. You can't add validity to your argument by making stuff up.

On the other hand, everyone saw Peter's hand sticking to the basketball and his 20+ foot jump...

No, it was unexpected from peter, but if extremely trained you can come close to that. Spider-webs.... not so much.

Nope. No professional or olympic athlete can do what he did- as a skinny 17 year old boy nonetheless.

No, it was unexpected from peter, but if extremely trained you can come close to that. Spider-webs.... not so much.

Nope. No professional or olympic athlete can do what he did- as a skinny 17 year old boy nonetheless.

Well, when crappy humor is in all of a director's filmography... that doesn't make it any better.

So you don't like Raimi's humour. So what? I don't like Webb's pandering pre-teen humour. This is the crux of your argument. You don't like Raimi's sense of humour and you can't reconcile that. You think it's a fact that it's bad, because YOU don't like it. This is the mindset of a child.

It's more like the same Raimi did with poorer results (the bedroom scene, the school scene).

Look at how you composed this sentence and think about what it says. Yes, I agree, it is like Raimi's, but with poorer results.

And many times, he talks back and don't just accepts everything. And I don't remember that comic where the school bus driver thinks it's funny to bully Peter every day.

Funny, I don't remember the comic where Peter talked back to Aunt May or Captain Stacy, stole chocolate milk or broke his promise to a dying man as he does in TASM. You call SM1 Peter pathetic and weak, well, I call TASM Peter pushy and selfish. It's easy when one only sees what one wants- as is the case with you.

No, it doesn't. Because you said that "Betty flirted with Peter" and she didn't. You were wrong. And it was only when Peter acted under the influence of an alien that he had a chance.

Huh? It was still Peter Parker. His negative characteristics were just amplified. She still flirted with him. Gwen as well (I see you keep ignoring that). Therefore YOU are wrong.

That's a lot of BS. He barely ran into her a couple of times in the street and happened to live with her boyfriend. That's all Peter did for her that she thought was "being there."

If anything, and being extremely generous with Raimi, it could have been Peter's audacity of going behind his best friend's back and try to steal his girlfriend that MJ valued the most in Peter.

This is just sad. You keep talking about desperation. This right here is the perfect example ^

Let's apply this way of thinking to TASM.

Gwen sees Peter get punched out and falls in love. He reveals his identity on the third time they run into each other and we are never given a reason that they care about each other.

So easy. I guess ignorance really is bliss.

Easy. He was the only one brave enough to face Flash all by himself.

lol. Seriously? That's why she likes him? Is he 11 years old on the playground? Otherwise I see no other reason. Please explain the "depth" of their relationship.

You have a very peculiar understanding of how story and drama works (if you could even call it an "understanding"). Obviously I'm dealing with someone who can't grasp the story/character arcs of a straightforward adventure movie. Not a personal attack, just evidenced in the redundant arguments you make over and over again.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I wouldn't bother arguing this with him, his idea of how a relationship is very grade school. Two people holding hands = stealing a girlfriend.

I can see that! He think MJ is only with Peter in SM1 because she pities him, while he thinks Gwen is with Peter in TASM because he stood up to Flash.

Also, his understanding of story/plot logistics, character development, character arcs, suspension of disbelief, etc... are all very "grade school" (to put it politely).

 

[S. Grundy]

Also, there's the fact that they don't even become a couple until the end of the second movie.

 

[S. Grundy]

lol. Seriously? That's why she likes him? Is he 11 years old on the playground? Otherwise I see no other reason. Please explain the "depth" of their relationship.

You have a very peculiar understanding of how story and drama works (if you could even call it an "understanding"). Obviously I'm dealing with someone who can't grasp the story/character arcs of a straightforward adventure movie. Not a personal attack, just evidenced in the redundant arguments you make over and over again.

Also, the fact that he stands up to flash without his powers, kinda defeats the whole purpose of the character.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Also, the fact that he stands up to flash without his powers, kinda defeats the whole purpose of the character.

I don't know if it entirely defeats the whole purpose of the character, but Peter was certainly never that bold, confident or heroic in either the 616 or Ultimate universe before his powers.

 

[Green Goblin]

Also, there's the fact that they don't even become a couple until the end of the second movie.

No it doesn't

It shows he had the will, the drive to do good things. He just did not have the power.

 

[Green Goblin]

I don't know if it entirely defeats the whole purpose of the character, but Peter was certainly never that bold, confident or heroic in either the 616 or Ultimate universe before his powers.

I'd need to read both again but in Spider-Man Season One (a retelling of the 616 origin for modern times) he did it.

 

[Green Goblin]

How the f*** did this turn into Rami vs Webb again seriously every f***ing Spider-Man thread here turns into it without a days break. It's really annoying. Who started it? Come on own up.

 

[Vid Electricz]

No it doesn't

It shows he had the will, the drive to do good things. He just did not have the power.

That's where the "there must come great responsibility" part comes in.

I'd need to read both again but in Spider-Man Season One (a retelling of the 616 origin for modern times) he did it.

Ultimate Peter is a LOT like Maguire's Peter. Both are quiet, reserved, shy and introverted. Hesitant to speak up or act if they are being mistreated.

In both SM1 and Ultimate:
Peter is pushed around and kicked by bullies before his powers (because he's percieved as weak and is regarded as a "loser"), which he does nothing about- After his powers, he is forced into a fight with Flash where he "wins" (in Ultimate he breaks Flash's hand and in SM1 he KO's him). But the scenarios/character work is extremely similar in both.

 

[S. Grundy]

That's where the "there must come great responsibility" part comes in.



Ultimate Peter is a LOT like Maguire's Peter. Both are quiet, reserved, shy and introverted. Hesitant to speak up or act if they are being mistreated.

In both SM1 and Ultimate:
Peter is pushed around and kicked by bullies before his powers (because he's percieved as weak and is regarded as a "loser"), which he does nothing about- After his powers, he is forced into a fight with Flash where he "wins" (in Ultimate he breaks Flash's hand and in SM1 he KO's him). But the scenarios/character work is extremely similar in both.

He gets those powers just by utter chance, and has to learn and aspire to be a hero, being heroic was something that never came naturally to Parker pre-bite. That it was already there within him just loses that great character element.

 

[Green Goblin]

He gets those powers just by utter chance, and has to learn and aspire to be a hero, being heroic was something that never came naturally to Parker pre-bite. That it was already there within him just loses that great character element.

It doesn't. Rami even did this in Spider-Man 2, he shows that even without his powers he was still a hero. You can not cherry pick.

 

[S. Grundy]

It doesn't. Rami even did this in Spider-Man 2, he shows that even without his powers he was still a hero. You can not cherry pick.

True, but slightly different circumstances. By that point, he had been a hero for sometime. And that moment served as the catalyst for him to get back in the game.

 

[Green Goblin]

True, but slightly different circumstances. By that point, he had been a hero for sometime. And that moment served as the catalyst for him to get back in the game.

He did not have any powers yet he still saved that girl from the fire. In TASM Peter had no powers but he saved the boy from the bully. Both of these instances highlight that the core of Peter Parker his heroic. His powers are the catalyst which lets him do it successfully.