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Discussion in 'The Infinity Saga' started by Slushy, Sep 19, 2012.
I don't get it.
....huh? who says this?
The only thing I can think of is when there was concern about the Stark and General Ross scene and how people might lose the feeling of continuity. But that was the whole reason for the Consultant short I thought. But had I not seen that I would've been clueless as to how they reconciled it. That's the only thing I can recall ever being associated with the mention of The Avengers being ruined or affected by The Incredible hulk.
Yeah, there was a continuity issue or something like that with Stark and General Ross. I was hoping somebody could explain it.
I'm not really sure how to. I may be wrong, but I believe they had another direction they thought about going towards The Avengers and they decided to go a different route. Once they did that I think it was brought to their attention by someone who said...err you know that scene with Stark and General Ross, how are we gonna explain that? I think they had intentions of possibly going The Ultimate Avengers animated movie version where Hulk was the enemy, and they decided to move forward differently. I don't really know, that was just my interpretation or feeling at the time when watching The Incredible Hulk. Until someone ever refutes that...it's my story and I'm sticking to it.
My interpretation of the scene was that Stark was talking to Ross about the Hulk problem and forming a team to deal with the Hulk. And Avengers could have/may have started similar to Ultimates/Ultimate Avengers where in their first fight/threat they had to deal with as a team was stopping the Hulk. And then ultimately the Hulk would've teamed up with them and fought with them against some other threat.
The Consultant short basically retconned that scene.
I think we can just chalk it up to Incredible Hulk being done a long time ago and they still weren't clear or sure on all the details for Avengers. Just for example the design they went for with Gollum in Fellowship of the Ring is different than how he turned out in The Two Towers.
Here's my take on it:
At the end of The Incredible Hulk, Tony Stark tracked down Gen. Ross and said (implied?) that they (Fury, SHIELD) wanted the Hulk for the team they were assembling. The clear implication was that Stark and SHIELD would help track Banner down, which would get Ross off the hook for the havoc he had caused with his ill-advised attempt to recreate the Super Soldier serum.
However, Marvel later decided to deviate from that approach. Since they were not planning a sequel to TIH, there was no reason to have Ross involved with recruiting Banner for the Avenger Initiative. Thus they needed to bridge that gap in the continuity by explaining away Ross's absence from the planning for the team in the later movies. They very cleverly covered the lapse in The Consultant, where it was explained that Stark wasn't talking to Ross about recruiting Banner at all, but about getting Emil Blonsky/Abomination released into SHIELD custody for use on the team.
Fury didn't want Blonsky on the team, despite the WSC pushing for him, so Agent Coulson sent Stark to talk to Ross, knowing that the billionaire would piss the general off so badly that he'd refuse to release the Abomination. That neatly explained why Ross wasn't involved in bringing in the Hulk.
We won't even get into the discrepancies between what Fury told Stark about the Avenger Initiative in Iron Man 2 and how the team was eventually assembled. The writers seemed to keep changing their minds about whether or not there even was an Initiative and whether Fury wanted Tony to be a part of it.
After The Consultant there is no continuity problem any more. Of courae, without The Consultant there wouldn't be one either. Starks motive to talk to Ross was only implied in that sce and even if he said that the Avengers would be a response team in case the Hulk hulks out again, there is really no contradiction with anything else stated in MCU movie.
The "only superhero in the world" line in the IM stinger than anything said in the last scene of TIH
At the end of IM2, Fury told Stark he was still involved in the Avengers, but only as a consultant.
Tony's first lines to Coulson is "consulting hours are etc. etc." clearly making a jab at them because they've downgraded him from member to consultant. He even says he thought it was shut down, which again makes sense with what the WSC says to Fury later in the film.
And, to be even more clear, Tony is never again approached to be on the Avengers. He was given the files to research, which he did, yet showing up to fight Loki in Germany was his own accord. No one called him in. And once he showed up, since he had information from his consultation, he went on teh Quinjet with Cap, BW, and Loki to head back to base and assist Bruce in the lab.
in the commentary it was suggested that the after credit scene, was meant to set hulk up as the villain of Avengers...
Agreed, but it was only just a plan, not actual continuity. So with "The Consultant" and "Avengers," the film-verse is still intact and (despite casting changes) still all canon.
That was a doozy. Thanks though!
I'm glad that Whedon and Marvel Studios decided to ditch any approach that involved the Hulk being a threat/enemy to the group for any part of the film. I remember on how Whedon commented that he didn't want to do the ultimates version of the Hulk where he eats people and killed a lot of innocent bystanders.
The hulk needed a new approach, one where he wasn't portrayed so much as a neutral chaos on the field, but more of a heroic manner and that's what we got in the Avengers, and given the reaction that it received, obviously it worked.
I listened to an interview with one of the producers - a guy called Brad Winderbaum. He was, after TIH, in charge of the MCU timeline and continuity.
When he was handed a currently timeline at the beginning it had 6 bullet points on it - real basic stuff!
He was also in charge of producing the 'shorts' that we see on the blu-rays, including 'The Consultant'.
Brad revealed that the idea that the WSC consulted Ross and wanted Abomination on the team was originally going to be part of The Avengers film but that it didn't really work in the story with everything else going on. So instead they made 'The Consultant' in order to get that idea across whilst also being able to show Stark in a consultancy role. Otherwise we may well have seen William Hurt play a role in the Avengers - possibly replacing some of the scenes that took part with Fury and the WSC.
So basically it seems the real reason they used the footage with Hurt and RDJ from TIH was mainly down to cost. Get the actors in to tell that part of the story efficiently without having to hire them again.
All I know was that the only reason Stark was there was to PICK UP Blonsky (deleated unmade scene I believe). I think all he was doing was relaying a message to Ross as to maybe help find Banner.
I do wonder though...was Stark aware that the goal was to get Ross to turn him down when it came to requesting for Blonsky's release, or was he left under the dark about it?
Yeah except The Consultant isn't a film. Just chalk it up to Marvel still finding their footing. It is a continuity error. A completely understandable, completely forgivable one, but the idea that it's fixed because they released some DVD extra isn't one I care for.
Hmm...you must have missed the part where Hulk fought Thor, chased and injured Black Widow, and THREATENED the lives of everyone on the helicarrier with his rage.
I think he was referring to a planned scene where the whole team had to battle The Hulk. I'll be honest though, I wanted to see Cap go to toe to toe with Hulk as seen in the Ultimate version.
I want another MARVEL Animated Film though. I wish they'd make one, but I assume they don't either have the finances to or they don't want to have to worry about a story conflicting or being used that affects Phase 2. It's unfortunate, but I guess I'll live.....I guess.
Exactly, I liken it to a homage of sorts. Most iterations of the Avengers "assembling" revolves around a Hulk rampage. Seeing as how the original team came together to confront a Loki-influenced Hulk, the Helicarrier scene, at least to me, is somewhat reminiscent of that.
Best I could tell when Stark meets Ross he tells him a team is being put together to deal with his problem, the hulk.
Honestly, I read it as taking the Hulk off his hands, in the sense of *recruiting* Banner/the Hulk.
That's how I took it too. Basically telling Ross to back off from chasing down Banner, that SHEILD would have it under control.