How Do You Feel About Batman Killing?

[hellblazer103]

Batman isn't too far off from becoming a psychopath. He's stated over the years, as have others, how narrow the beam over darkness he walks is, and how easy it is to fall from it, plunging himself into a place he can never return from. Taking a human being's life, no matter how evil, where you are in no position to do so, is always going to be perceived as wrong, and rightfully so.
Batman bends the law, sometimes he breaks it, all for the greater good... and this is for the sake of upholding the law. He has to draw a line somewhere, because if ge doesn't, what example is he setting to others out there?

Even after Commissioner Gordon has been tortured, seen pics of his daughter naked and crippled, does he tell Batman to kill the Joker to prevent this from happening again to anyone else? Does he ask Batman to beat the clown to a pulp? No. He instructs him to bring him in by the book, to show him that the lawful side of his character will remain intact, despite everything.
Batman, like cops, works alongside the rules of law and order. Police officers don't go in with a plan to kill a criminals, it's to arrest them. The world would be so much simpler, but where would that leave our society?

Batman, being so close to evil, because let's face it, he's not exactly normal, is he? Should absolutely be the first person to recognise a place to draw a line, so he doesn't run the risk of being like those he fights, who have no regards for law and order, life and death.

for a borderline psychopath, he sure does have a heavy conscience....

 

[Rodrigo90]

Weird, isn't it?

He walks on the borders of becoming a monster, but his dedication to preserving his mind and soul keep him from falling into oblivion.

 

[hellblazer103]

I see it as being kind of like Will Graham in Hannibal. Both are on the verge of becoming the kind of psychopathic killers they go after and can occasionally relate to, both having their own sort of " devil " to corrupt them into crossing that line. ( Hannibal for Will, Joker for Bats )

 

[Rodrigo90]

I actually think that's best analogy there is

 

[hellblazer103]

I actually think that's best analogy there is

I'm glad someone else does, lol

 

[Rodrigo90]

I'm glad someone else does, lol

It's true, though

Manhunter, I think depicted Will's struggle with his sanity a lot better than what we saw in Red Dragon. I still get chills in that scene where Lecter is taunting Will in his room, revealing Will's own mind to him, where it reduces him to a small, terrified animal, desperate to escape its cage from the bigger prey that's threatening to consume it.

Batman has more mental discipline and self-control than Will, but we've seen plenty moments in the comics where he's come close to killing the Joker, hesitating to save him, wishing he was dead in bloody rage, etc... and that's what Joker wants: to chip into Batman's humanity, peeling away the virtuous strengths Batman's had to build in order to be the best of himself in all regards of law, order and sanity, to display his roar vulnerabilities and ignite enough of a fire to cause Batman to abandon those rules.

So, if that happens, is Batman truly any better than those who completely disregards society's rules and the sanctity of human life?

 

[hellblazer103]

It's true, though

Manhunter, I think depicted Will's struggle with his sanity a lot better than what we saw in Red Dragon. I still get chills in that scene where Lecter is taunting Will in his room, revealing Will's own mind to him, where it reduces him to a small, terrified animal, desperate to escape its cage from the bigger prey that's threatening to consume it.

Batman has more mental discipline and self-control than Will, but we've seen plenty moments in the comics where he's come close to killing the Joker, hesitating to save him, wishing he was dead in bloody rage, etc... and that's what Joker wants: to chip into Batman's humanity, peeling away the virtuous strengths Batman's had to build in order to be the best of himself in all regards of law, order and sanity, to display his roar vulnerabilities and ignite enough of a fire to cause Batman to abandon those rules.

So, if that happens, is Batman truly any better than those who completely disregards society's rules and the sanctity of human life?

i was referring more to the show " Hannibal " than the movies , actually. if you haven't seen it , i highly recommend it. best Will Graham ever , and mads mikkelsen is right up there with hopkins as the best Dr. Lecter , if not better . and yeah, edward norton is a great actor, but his will was bland as hell.

 

[Rodrigo90]

i was referring more to the show " Hannibal " than the movies , actually. if you haven't seen it , i highly recommend it. best Will Graham ever , and mads mikkelsen is right up there with hopkins as the best Dr. Lecter , if not better . and yeah, edward norton is a great actor, but his will was bland as hell.

I've been wanting to watch that for ages. Had the chance when it was on Canadian Netflix, but the swines have stopped that with their proxy clampdown

 

[hellblazer103]

I've been wanting to watch that for ages. Had the chance when it was on Canadian Netflix, but the swines have stopped that with their proxy clampdown

you have 2 choices :

1.) stream/download it online

2. ) buy the DVDs for each season because it kinda needs support, being cancelled prematurely and all.

 

[Boy Scout]

I would prefer that he didn't kill. Ever. I've never liked or been comfortable with it. It can be done well (TDK), and I acknowledge that a great number of compelling stories can be told as a result of Batman taking one or more lives, but I have very little interest in seeing them play out on the big screen.

 

[Rodrigo90]

you have 2 choices :

1.) stream/download it online

2. ) buy the DVDs for each season because it kinda needs support, being cancelled prematurely and all.

Option 2! I can't settle on poor quality viewing after needing glasses to watch and read things

I would prefer that he didn't kill. Ever. I've never liked or been comfortable with it. It can be done well (TDK), and I acknowledge that a great number of compelling stories can be told as a result of Batman taking one or more lives, but I have very little interest in seeing them play out on the big screen.

Batman CAN kill... but why should he? And in the manner he did in BvS, where the deaths were unnecessary and avoidable?
Deliberate murder cheapens a lot of his key qualities as a character.
Accidental death by his hand, like Harvey in TDK, that's passable. But what happened in BvS? Nah. No good.

 

[hellblazer103]

Option 2! I can't settle on poor quality viewing after needing glasses to watch and read things





Batman CAN kill... but why should he? And in the manner he did in BvS, where the deaths were unnecessary and avoidable?
Deliberate murder cheapens a lot of his key qualities as a character.
Accidental death by his hand, like Harvey in TDK, that's passable. But what happened in BvS? Nah. No good.

i mean, there's plenty of streaming sites with great quality , but yeah, you're probably better off getting the DVDs if you can.

and idk, i see it as no different than when he'd kill in batman 89/returns, or in the original bob kane/bill finger comics ( which apparently don't count anymore even though all the great forms of batman we know today wouldn't exist without them )

 

[Victarion]

I'm alright with it if they use Batman killing to point out the absurdity of what he's taken upon himself, including his no-kill vow.

 

[hellblazer103]

OOOOH !!! I forgot to mention , Rodrigo ( not to keep getting off topic ) : if you have an amazon prime account, you can stream the first 2 seasons for free. I think you gotta buy the 3rd season eps though.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Thanks man, but I've just checked and I have to buy them Amazon Video I have, not a Prime account

 

[hellblazer103]

aaaah. prime is the bee's knees.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Just want to say it here, potential spoilers from SS from early tweets.

Spoiler

Batman does not kill anyone in Suicide Squad. And yes the movie takes place after BVS

 

[hellblazer103]

Just want to say it here, potential spoilers from SS from early tweets.

Spoiler

Batman does not kill anyone in Suicide Squad. And yes the movie takes place after BVS

Spoiler

is it still flashing back to when jason died though ?

 

[MurkeNyou]

He doesn't kill, the vehicles do!

 

[Lantern Venom]

It's interesting to note that Captain America uses lethal force throughout the MCU. Cap has thrown guys off planes, shot at Hydra soldiers, threw a knife into a guy's back, hit people with his motorcycle at high speeds, and caused numerous explosions.
I don't have a problem with Batman killing foes in similar war-like circumstances where he's outnumbered and outgunned.

The problem begins when a hero begins executing foes. Then he becomes an anti-hero, or worse, a villain. I hope that Batfleck's inclination to kill a defenseless opponent doesn't repeat itself in the DCEU, especially if he has another tussle with a fellow JLer.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Cap also wears the American flag as a costume. Maybe Batman should too. Never mind the fact that they are different characters. Batman should just become somebody else.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I'm against Batman killing. BUT, context is also really important. Sometimes he has no other choice, sometimes it's an accident, sometimes it's not his fault, sometimes the story takes Batman into really dark places.

I didn't vote, because it doesn't have an option, that represents my opinion. One more needed: I don't like Batman killing people, but I can accept it, if it's justified by the story.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Cap also wears the American flag as a costume. Maybe Batman should too. Never mind the fact that they are different characters. Batman should just become somebody else.

Except that I've never heard any vitriol when the most optimistic hero of the bright MCU kills opponents in dire situations. If audiences accept that Captain America sometimes has no choice but to use lethal force, then they should accept that with any hero in specific circumstances.

 

[Assassin32]

Batman is a modern-day ninja and the world's greatest detective and always in peak physical condition. If he killed, he would rid Gotham of crime in under a month and then there would be few (if any) Batman stories left to tell. The no-kill rule is a necessary storytelling device that has emerged over the course of nearly eighty years of literature. And it has been deftly linked to Batman's origin in Crime Alley. When Tim Burton made his first Batman movie, a sequel wasn't promised. He wasn't writing and penciling a monthly comic strip, he was directing what he had to regard as a one-off blockbuster. So it made sense for that Batman to kill. Stories need endings. Something definitive must occur. Death is definitive.

Now that we're in the age of superhero movie franchises, and it seems like the WB films are coming out faster than DC's monthly magazines, I believe the Batman movies should probably take a cue from the Batman books.

Batman shouldn't kill.

 

[uniqueweasel]

Batman should never kill, i've never felt comfortable with that aspect in some stories. I like the character that can never be pushed or tempted into breaking that one simple rule.