How do you rate the "Hush" story arc?

[Cain]

...and as if the man with super sense of smell wouldn't be able to smell the leaking gas if it was actually true? Jeph Loeb is a moron.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

...and as if the man with super sense of smell wouldn't be able to smell the leaking gas if it was actually true? Jeph Loeb is a moron.

Blocked senes because of mind-control (AKA "Get out of jail free card" excuse), but yes, it bugged me too when I read it for the first time.

I think Loeb was trying to write an "iconic" story that could be sold as "the ultimate Batman story", that's why he included his own quick Batman origin and all those things like Batman fighting Superman. And of course this was an excuse for Jim Lee to draw Lois Lane. He shoehorned every villain and hot females of the Batman universe into the story, this couldn't succeed.

 

[Cain]

Blocked senes because of mind-control (AKA "Get out of jail free card" excuse), but yes, it bugged me too when I read it for the first time.

I think Loeb was trying to write an "iconic" story that could be sold as "the ultimate Batman story", that's why he included his own quick Batman origin and all those things like Batman fighting Superman. And of course this was an excuse for Jim Lee to draw Lois Lane. He shoehorned every villain and hot females of the Batman universe into the story, this couldn't succeed.

The contrivance of it all made me sick to my stomach. Like it's a scenario that wasn't even necessary to begin with like 85% of the story was. That's what made me so angry none of it seemed really well structured artistically it was blatantly written extremely safely and contrived so it could just be another cash grab.

I think Dark Victory is still Loeb's most compelling work on Batman. It's not perfect but it's not as bland as the serialized stories collected in Haunted Knight, it's much better than The Long Halloween to me cause Batman isn't an idiot in it and has a compelling arc thanks to the introduction of Grayson. Overall I think it was the one time he got it at least half way right.

It kills me how all of Loeb's Batman stuff pretty much is guaranteed the Absolute treatment which it's not even worthy of from a quality standpoint not commercial one. Yet fans are deprived of more TPB's collecting more stories from the Grant/Breyfogle or Moench and Jones runs so they could see just how overrated people like Frank Miller and Jeph Loeb really are as far as Batman is concerned.

 

[Drz]

When you say "Batman isnt an idiot" you mean the fact he couldnt solve the mystery? I think we need to remember this was Batman's 2nd year as Bats. Canonically it happens 6 months after the conclusion of Year One.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

The contrivance of it all made me sick to my stomach. Like it's a scenario that wasn't even necessary to begin with like 85% of the story was. That's what made me so angry none of it seemed really well structured artistically it was blatantly written extremely safely and contrived so it could just be another cash grab.

Yup.

I think Dark Victory is still Loeb's most compelling work on Batman. It's not perfect but it's not as bland as the serialized stories collected in Haunted Knight, it's much better than The Long Halloween to me cause Batman isn't an idiot in it and has a compelling arc thanks to the introduction of Grayson. Overall I think it was the one time he got it at least half way right.

Yup. But I think "Year Three" is the better Robin origin.

It kills me how all of Loeb's Batman stuff pretty much is guaranteed the Absolute treatment which it's not even worthy of from a quality standpoint not commercial one. Yet fans are deprived of more TPB's collecting more stories from the Grant/Breyfogle or Moench and Jones runs so they could see just how overrated people like Frank Miller and Jeph Loeb really are as far as Batman is concerned.

That's the power of the tpb. I will never get it why DC doesn't release more tpb with all those stories from the 80s. They are sitting on a goldmine.

Bottom line: I am sick and tired of all this "Hush" talking. It was years ago, it was nothing special, the story is not worth talking about that much. We could also discuss "The Underworld Olympics '76" all the time, that's the same quality.

 

[Cain]

When you say "Batman isnt an idiot" you mean the fact he couldnt solve the mystery? I think we need to remember this was Batman's 2nd year as Bats. Canonically it happens 6 months after the conclusion of Year One.

Not just his incompetence as a detective but as a crime fighter as well he was amateur and incompetent as heck and very blandly written. The canon argument holds no weight cause he was written as a much more competent crime fighter & detective in Batman & The Monster Men, Gothic and The Man Who Laughs for example and all 3 took place chronologically before TLH.

Forget canon what matters is the quality of the story as it stands itself, as a representation of Batman and not Gotham City I feel it stinks. I just chalk it up to Loeb being a below average writer who doesn't really have a grip on writing Batman interestingly enough unless he uses some sort of crutch (Ie: Dick Grayson).

Yup. But I think "Year Three" is the better Robin origin.

I prefer DV but Year Three is one of my all time favorite Dick Grayson stories. one of the first times I recall him really standing out as Nightwing outside of the Titan books.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

The problem is that Batman doesn't find out ANYTHING in the whole story. He just beats up the people (with brass knuckles!!) the Roman hired.

 

[Ryan]

I actually really enjoy Loeb's Long Halloween and Dark Victory. When I bought them as graphic novels and read them for the first time, I couldn't get enough of them. I did enjoy Hush, but it was a rehash of old ideas/tricks to get people to read his arc and perhaps establish a new Bat foe. What was tragic is that so much was used to build up the character of Hush, only to fail in establishing any real reason to care about this character in future comics.

 

[The Joker]

Blimey! Didn't realize how many Loeb haters we had around here.

 

[mothy]

A Superman who was mindcontrolled and not at his top level

nevertheless, it is a thrashing. batman earnt his victory. superman is never easy. mindcontrolled or not. it was well thought out and well executed. he remained composed against the increasingly agitated superman who could have made things one sided quickly.

 

[Drz]

nevertheless, it is a thrashing. batman earnt his victory. superman is never easy. mindcontrolled or not. it was well thought out and well executed. he remained composed against the increasingly agitated superman who could have made things one sided quickly.

But it was never about DEFEATING, but SAVING Superman. He broke bones by just punching at him, he knew he didn't have much to do. He had to empty Metropolis' electrroity just to stun him for a moment for pete's sake. Not to mention even Batman mentions that Superman is fighthim himself to not kill Batman.

@Cain: Well i still stand by my opinion. There decent fun stories that are mainly praised for their awesomeness art. You do bring good arguments to the table for sure and i do agree with you on them abit, but i do like these stories as "medium" or "above medium" only because of the art hehe. =p I know it sounds ******ed to care so much for the art but good art ALWAYS enchances a decent/good/awesome story. It's like Morrison and Quitely! Or O'neill and Adams! It's the perfect combo you always wanna see hehe.

 

[mothy]

But it was never about DEFEATING, but SAVING Superman. He broke bones by just punching at him, he knew he didn't have much to do. He had to empty Metropolis' electrroity just to stun him for a moment for pete's sake. Not to mention even Batman mentions that Superman is fighthim himself to not kill Batman.

true. in the scenario, it was all about survival - until he could finally rationally talk to him away from the heat of battle.

superman did restrain himself as much as he could, but i feel batman's got to be commended. he kept the gadgets and techniques coming one after the other in quick succession. he thought like his opponent. he contained superman so he couldn't fly. he kept shouting to distract him. even if he only temporarily stunned him, batman did buy catwoman more time. the guy is literally superman.

deep down, even though mindcontrolled, he was still that good soul that is superman. for batman, that's lucky - as deep down he is not. batman appealed to that side of him when he came storming out after the confrontation. because he had kept superman at bay, he had the distance between him to do that. that's the main result of the fight. superman saved. mission accomplished.

if he didn't successfully appeal to his good nature, it would be another close quarters situation where batman would seriously struggle, given superman's mood. and especially in an open area like that street.

 

[Drz]

Still people talking about as if it was a serious battle is laughable. Superman is as fast as flash, he has heat vision and what not. Writers won't have Superman do that because then Batman would instantly lose, so we can all just sya is "thanks Superman for not killing Batman, and thanks Batman for finding a way to break the mind control" off.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

t

deep down, even though mindcontrolled, he was still that good soul that is superman. for batman, that's lucky - as deep down he is not.

ah c'mon. Like Batman would think he is a bad person. Another thing I hate in Hush.

 

[returntovoid]

I hate the Hush story arc (can't believe Jeph Loeb wrote this).

I thought Jeph Loeb's Batman: The Long Halloween was really great and it's one of my favorite graphic novels out there but I don't think it's the be all and end all of Batman stories, that title should go to the classic Batman comics books.

The art is the only redeeming quality about Hush.

 

[MysterioMenace]

I wouldn’t say it’s incredible by any means, the pay-off wasn’t there at all, but it’s definitely a cut above most. I couldn’t help but be disappointed with the final issue though. I did quite enjoy the Riddler angle of the main plot though, but Hush’s reveal was truly a letdown.

 

[Drz]

I decided to bump this thread for the solo purpose of collecting all the plotholes from Loeb's runs. Anyone wanna help?
Hush:
- Nitpick: Batman not having a plan if his batrope gets cut while swinging
- He didn't figure he had a beeper inside his head or the metal detectives didn't notice it? The device Hush used to follow Bruce.
- He had no clue Two-Face was free while Batman's suppose to be looking after things along with his team.

Anyone wanna help me gather this material lol?

 

[Mr. Earle]

It's average to good. My biggest gripe with it is Hush's motivations for doing all of that were just piss weak. Haven't seen a villain with worse reasoning for having a personal grudge against the hero since Venom in Spider-Man.

The artwork is simply gorgeous though, and definitely a big attraction factor to the story.

Ditto.

I hated Hush when he was first introduced. And just like in The Long Halloween, Loeb wrote a detective story while reading the fans' opinions on the internet and changing the clues in the following issue. It was piss poor writing.
However, i do like Hush now after Dini wrote him a bit better, and i love how he has assumed Bruce's identity now that Bruce is gone. He's always been a thorn in the bat family's side, and now he's even more dangerous.

...and as if the man with super sense of smell wouldn't be able to smell the leaking gas if it was actually true? Jeph Loeb is a moron.

Exactly.

I decided to bump this thread for the solo purpose of collecting all the plotholes from Loeb's runs. Anyone wanna help?
Hush:
- Nitpick: Batman not having a plan if his batrope gets cut while swinging
- He didn't figure he had a beeper inside his head or the metal detectives didn't notice it? The device Hush used to follow Bruce.
- He had no clue Two-Face was free while Batman's suppose to be looking after things along with his team.

Anyone wanna help me gather this material lol?

Dont waste your time man... Its not worth it.

 

[Drz]

No trust me this is very worth it! Help me out!

 

[batpawn]

Hush AKA "Let's use every hot female character in the Batman universe because Jim Lee is drawing" is not very good.

quoted for truth. besides, I'm really not a fan of Jim Lee's lackluster and boring storytelling capabilities. If I want to see pretty pictures that use the same perspective over and over again, I pick up one of the many pin-up artbooks out there. But I want my comicbooks, a visual medium, look more dynamic than that.

the story is uninteresting and repetitive to say the least, and worst of all, it's Long Halloween all over again. Just in 'bad'. Batman beating up Superman and squeezing around with catwoman while having swordfights with ra's al ghul in the desert? I'm sorry, good and well thought out storystructure this is not. these are the dreams fanfictions are made of. reading it for the first time, I was just waiting for the page in which the joker is raping harley violently on a children's clown bed while she's enjoying it. the comicbook is all about the payoffs, said relationship between bats and cats und superman getting the crap handed to him, but the build ups were ridiculous and unimaginitive. just fanfiction stuff.

but I don't care much for jeph loeb in general. If you'd have asked me what's my favorite batman comicbook around 10 years ago, I might have said 'the long halloween'. as of today, I don't like it that much anymore either. it's a good, entertaining little crime story, I give it that. but it's definitely not the end of days of batmancomicbooks. it doesn't help much that jeph loeb is, basically, writing the same story over and over again. dark victory and hush read like the long halloween, just with a different layout.

 

[Mr. Earle]

No trust me this is very worth it! Help me out!

Its been a while since i read it and i currently dont have the issues with me, so i cant help you, sorry.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

While its not the most impressive work, Hush is great! Loeb seems to write as if he constantly tries to impress fans WHICH REALLY TURNS ME OFF... He doesn't write for himself or for what he thinks he will be a great story but what will impress fans and often it does impress us but sometimes its incoherent and repetitive.

I loved TLH
Dark Victory was much better
I loved DD: Yellow
I loved Spiderman: Blue
Hulk Gray was okay

Hush was great as a story... The concept was good but Hush as a character is really mediocre.

 

[skiddyboy]

Draz, what comic are your Avatars from?

 

[Infinity9999x]

nevertheless, it is a thrashing. batman earnt his victory. superman is never easy. mindcontrolled or not. it was well thought out and well executed. he remained composed against the increasingly agitated superman who could have made things one sided quickly.

No, it wasn't even close to a thrashing. Bruce even admits himself "He could go superspeed and crush me into pulp if he wanted."

If Superman had really wanted to kill Batman, he would have. End of story.

Also, something I never liked was the comment "deep down Clark's a good person. And I'm not." Honestly, it's pure crap. It's one of those lines Frank Miller would throw in there because it sounds "badass." Batman, deep down, IS a good person. He protects people. He fights to make sure what happened to him as a child doesn't happen to anyone else. If he wasn't a good person deep down, he would have turned into the Punisher a long time ago.

 

[Drz]

Draz, what comic are your Avatars from?

Batman #666 and Streets of Gotham #11

Also regarding all that "in Hush, Batman wins Superman" how about you read Loeb's another story called Superman|Batman: With a Vengeance! In that story Batman gets mind controlled and is full of Kryptonite, yet Superman saves him JUST like Batman did in Hush.

Does this mean Superman beated Batman? Nope. Just like in Hush. They saved EACH OTHER.