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The Dark Knight Rises How should Nolan End Batman's Story?

Why the **** would you want Batman to die? You can't kill a iconic character just cos it looks different. If Nolan does not return for fourth then someone else should take over with their own vision not trying to copy Nolan's.
We are not saying we want Batman dead. Its not like anyone here is saying "I hate Batman, I always liked the Joker better. Kill Batman, long live bad guys!" We are saying it might make a good story to kill off this version of Batman. He isn't the real Batman. Its like killing off an alternate reality Batman. It might be a interesting take and might change superhero movies to show that they are more than just popcorn action flicks where the heroes live on and on and there is always a sequel and no substance. Not saying his death would add substance. It would just show something revolutionary in a superhero film, having the hero die. We would still have the comics, still have the cartoon, and still have the next crop of Batman films by another director. maybe the next version of Batman would be more cartoony and get used as in the JLA film. This is Nolan's LAST Batman film, after this Bale is probably out, and Nolan is out, they will reboot the franchise in another direction. Sort of starting all over anyway.
There are reasonable arguments why killing off Batman would make a good movie and why it wouldn't hurt the Batman brand or the franchise. But, like always, I am not saying I want him dead either. I am just saying those who like the idea that Batman might die in the movies aren't traitors or morons. Neither are those who want him not to die. Clearly there are people who feel that his death wouldn't make a good story or wouldn't fit with the character or maybe just wouldn't sit right with them. I was asking what people would like to see or accept.
I can see his death working if Alfred covers it up, maybe with the aid of Gordon, Fox, and maybe Selena Kyle. No one knows that Bruce was Batman and they think Batman is still alive and catching criminals every night. (his symbol never dies) Gordon even shows the signal once in a while. It would show that Bruce's Batman will never die. But we would also need to see that the people of Gotham can fend for themselves now.

I don't see Bats dying.
I see his redemption in the third film because of his "fall" in TDK. A story doesn't have to end with the death of the major character, it ends with resolving the conflict that character was facing.
I could see someone like the Riddler getting the upper hand on Bats, and possibly forcing him to unmask in public, and admit who he is. I don'tknow if that would stop Wayne from being Bats, or if he would simply go on being Bats...
If Bruce revealed himself it would destroy the symbol he created for the city. "As a man I can be killed, but as a symbol..." As a symbol he wont die, even after he dies in real life Batman's myth will live on. (If no one knows he died. Reveal who is behind the mask to the city, then Batman goes back to being just a man who can be hurt and who is subject to the same weaknesses all humans are.
I could see him dying, not saying he should. But I could see Nolan having him die. But maybe WB wouldn't let him take such a risk with a major property like that. But then again...
Besides the death idea (which is hinted at all over the other 2 movies) I do see redemption as an idea too.
Realistically Bruce had no idea how deep he would be going when he jumped into being Batman. He propbably never imagined having to deal with things like the Joker and the events of Dark Knight. Dark Knight, and perhaps the fall out of the Dark Knight in part 3, would be the low point in his career as Batman.
We see him become Batman in Begins, starting out on a high. We see the events of the Dark Knight (a low), and the ramifications of that in part 3 (still low) and by the end of part 3 he redeems himself (back to high).

I don't know how the bad guy would fit either, Nolan picks a bad guy for the story and not a story for the bad guy. So maybe he will pick the Riddler and maybe he wont, maybe we will see some like Talia teamed up with Poison Ivy. But I do think adding Catwoman, as a love interest, could work into a story too.

This is all just fun speculation though. Its like asking what the next version of Batman should be like once Nolan is out and another director takes over the Batman franchise with new films.
 
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You have to ask yourself,what do you want to see happen at the end of the comics? Thats what I did.

Unmasking himself is powerful,cause it cements his image as a sacrificing hero. Bruce and Batman are BOTH the symbol, I think Bruce deserves to be seen as that,just as much as Batman. He's not an obsessive Batman,where he NEEDS to be Batman for the sake of it,his belief in Gotham is higher than his own. He could create the slogan himself "I Believe in Gotham City". By the end, I'd like to see him make a real difference in every aspect. But with the sad knowledge that great evil will return,and so will he.

This isnt like the comics,where he is framed for something and then the truth comes out and everything is hunky dory. The truth can NEVER come out,he CANT be forgiven, otherwise everything he's done and went through is pointless. He cant be redeemed,its insane. The police will continue to hunt him,there is no way out

But people just want it to end in the most obvious way,which I dont think will come close.
 
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I'd rather the city think of him as an unstable person ("a guy who dresses up like a Bat clearly has issues"), but a necessary figure for their safety. Not full forgiveness per se, but reluctant acceptance.
 
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How could Batman feasibly fake his own death anyway? No one knows who he is so there would be no proof that whoever was killed was really Batman, especially with the fake Batmen running around. Batman couldn't do it without revealing his secret identity, methods, etc. (like what happened at the end of DKR).

Nolan could do it like BTAS in The Man Who Killed Batman. Nolan can change a bit like no Joker and Harley here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Killed_Batman


There is no way I want Batman to die in this franchise not ever.
 
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You have to ask yourself,what do you want to see happen at the end of the comics? Thats what I did.
I know you did that because you just chose an ending that you like without examining whether it fits the story so far, if it makes sense, etc.

Example:
- I want Batman to get a sex change. It makes sense becauuuuuse.... it would be powerful? I guess... And it would defeat the joker!
- But why would it defeat the joker?
- Because!
 
Because if there is no Batman,then there is no Joker. The threat of him existing is no more,if Batman no longer exists. Unmasking himself changes things forever,theres no going back...as Joker stated,also making the mistake of telling Batman his life revolves around him and NOT wanting him unmasked.

One story,Joker was living a happy normal life,Batman returned and he became Joker again.

TDKR. He was catatonic,Batman returned,and Joker 'woke up'.

Joker cannot exist without Batman.
 
And what about all the other supervillains that exist regardless of Batman?
 
I have always seen Batman getting old, like in Miller's TDKR or BOTF and trying to find a way to perpetuate the legend, but I can't see it in a third bat-movie.
 
We are not saying we want Batman dead. Its not like anyone here is saying "I hate Batman, I always liked the Joker better. Kill Batman, long live bad guys!" We are saying it might make a good story to kill off this version of Batman. He isn't the real Batman. Its like killing off an alternate reality Batman. It might be a interesting take and might change superhero movies to show that they are more than just popcorn action flicks where the heroes live on and on and there is always a sequel and no substance. Not saying his death would add substance. It would just show something revolutionary in a superhero film, having the hero die. We would still have the comics, still have the cartoon, and still have the next crop of Batman films by another director. maybe the next version of Batman would be more cartoony and get used as in the JLA film. This is Nolan's LAST Batman film, after this Bale is probably out, and Nolan is out, they will reboot the franchise in another direction. Sort of starting all over anyway.
There are reasonable arguments why killing off Batman would make a good movie and why it wouldn't hurt the Batman brand or the franchise. But, like always, I am not saying I want him dead either. I am just saying those who like the idea that Batman might die in the movies aren't traitors or morons. Neither are those who want him not to die. Clearly there are people who feel that his death wouldn't make a good story or wouldn't fit with the character or maybe just wouldn't sit right with them. I was asking what people would like to see or accept.
I can see his death working if Alfred covers it up, maybe with the aid of Gordon, Fox, and maybe Selena Kyle. No one knows that Bruce was Batman and they think Batman is still alive and catching criminals every night. (his symbol never dies) Gordon even shows the signal once in a while. It would show that Bruce's Batman will never die. But we would also need to see that the people of Gotham can fend for themselves now.


If Bruce revealed himself it would destroy the symbol he created for the city. "As a man I can be killed, but as a symbol..." As a symbol he wont die, even after he dies in real life Batman's myth will live on. (If no one knows he died. Reveal who is behind the mask to the city, then Batman goes back to being just a man who can be hurt and who is subject to the same weaknesses all humans are.
I could see him dying, not saying he should. But I could see Nolan having him die. But maybe WB wouldn't let him take such a risk with a major property like that. But then again...
Besides the death idea (which is hinted at all over the other 2 movies) I do see redemption as an idea too.
Realistically Bruce had no idea how deep he would be going when he jumped into being Batman. He propbably never imagined having to deal with things like the Joker and the events of Dark Knight. Dark Knight, and perhaps the fall out of the Dark Knight in part 3, would be the low point in his career as Batman.
We see him become Batman in Begins, starting out on a high. We see the events of the Dark Knight (a low), and the ramifications of that in part 3 (still low) and by the end of part 3 he redeems himself (back to high).

I don't know how the bad guy would fit either, Nolan picks a bad guy for the story and not a story for the bad guy. So maybe he will pick the Riddler and maybe he wont, maybe we will see some like Talia teamed up with Poison Ivy. But I do think adding Catwoman, as a love interest, could work into a story too.

This is all just fun speculation though. Its like asking what the next version of Batman should be like once Nolan is out and another director takes over the Batman franchise with new films.

You're right, but everyone knows the symbol is just a man. Hell, he just about got his arse handed to him by the Joker and crew at the dinner party in TDK. Everyone there saw him basically loose that fight.
 
If we take into consideration that Nolan's films are about Batman's rookie years, with him making errors, thinking he can quit and so on, i think that B3 should end with Bruce realizing and embracing who he is.

There have been many stories about this, with Bruce realizing that he'd be Batman no matter what. For example there was Detective Comics #500 where Batman had the chance to stop the murder of his parents in a parallel universe. He succeeded, but even with his parents still alive, something changed in young Bruce. He realized that got lucky and that his parents could have died. He stopped being a brat, and started thinking how he could change all that. The issue ends with young Bruce walking outside the manour but his shadow having the shape of Batman's! Here, have a look if you're interested:
http://threshold.vox.com/library/post/favorite-comics-detective-comics-500-to-kill-a-legend.html

Another story about this is "Batman: Death and the Maidens" where through magic Bruce gets to meet with the spirits of his dead parents who are disappointed (Thomas is also angry) to see their son miserable and unhappy. They tell him that he could have helped Gotham by becoming a doctor, a lawyer, a scientist, the President, etc. Bruce wakes up wondering if it was a dream or reality, and if it was the latter, what should he do now that he knows his parents dont want this for him. Alfred tells him to stop kidding himself and that Batman is who he is, Batman is the way he chooses to help Gotham. He would have become Batman even if his parents were around to disagree.

So in other words Bruce needs to realise that he IS Batman, not because he has to be, but because he chooses to be. (Goddamn that line in Forever was awesome!)
 
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And what about all the other supervillains that exist regardless of Batman?

He hasnt met them all yet.:cwink:

But we all know Batman and Joker are the greatest of enemies.

Im not saying that what I wrote should be the ending,nobody seems to like it,which saddens me a little,as Im quite proud of it.

I just seriously can fathom any other ending that people want.
 
You're right, but everyone knows the symbol is just a man. Hell, he just about got his arse handed to him by the Joker and crew at the dinner party in TDK. Everyone there saw him basically loose that fight.
He beat up 4-5 guys, and then jumped out of a window and saved Rachel. I say that he was awesome!
 
If we take into consideration that Nolan's films are basically about Batman's rookie years, with him making errors, thinking he can quit and so on, i think that B3 should end with Bruce realizing and embracing who he is. There have been many stories about this, with Bruce realizing that he'd be Batman no matter what.

100% agreed.
 
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With a shot of Joker escaping Arkham Asylum would be cool.
 
With a shot of Joker escaping Arkham Asylum would be cool.


That would be cool, but that would also bring us right back to where we ended with Batman Begins. If nolan wants to tie up everything he should leave no subplots and no cliffhangers. The only continuim should be Batman's legacy.
 
If we take into consideration that Nolan's films are about Batman's rookie years, with him making errors, thinking he can quit and so on, i think that B3 should end with Bruce realizing and embracing who he is.

This.

Batman 3 needs to have a morally conflicted Bruce Wayne who is split over the 'duty' which he feels he must perform (as Batman), and the effects of that duty - Rachel dying, Harvey dying, the Joker appearing etc. As hinted at the end of Batman Begins, these are all things which could be blamed on escalation - does the Joker exist because Batman exists? In a way, is Batman actually responsible for much of the new breed of crime that has come to Gotham?

But of course, by the end of the third film Bruce will have come to some realisation and acceptance of who he is. He is Batman, now and forever.

Killing off the character would not sit well with the story arcs and tone of the first 2 films.
 
In a final scene, the Joker is escaping Arkham Asylum... when suddenly we see Superman standing in front of him.

Joker "I've heard about you..."

*Credits*

:dry: :csad:
 
Here what Ive gathered. Nolan is telling a story,about Bruce wanting show Gotham that it doesn't belong to the criminals and corrupt. So he becomes Batman (bear with me).

Next. He feels Harvey Dent is the real deal to saving Gotham. But by the end, the characters know for different reasons, he is the one true symbol of hope for Gotham. But to the city,his image is a murderer,through his own decision to stop the Joker from winning, but mainly to protect the city. To Gotham, Dent was their true hero.

To expand upon that. Batman needs to keep the up appearance that he is a killer,perhaps going into a darker realm of threatening criminals to leave Gotham for good,or else...thus creating the illusion that he has killed. But light could come from Bruce filling in Dent's void,by becoming the new public hero of Gotham. Supporting to more causes and donations. Hoping (naively) he no longer has to be Batman,but then comes along another big bad...Im still working on an alternative to unmasking. :)
 
perhaps going into a darker realm of threatening criminals to leave Gotham for good,or else...
Dear Bruce,

I already had my hands full with Lex, alien gods and super computers, so thanks for sending me the Joker, Penguin, Hush, Ivy and all the other freaks. Real classy of you man! You re a real hero!

**** you very much,
Clark.
 
You have to ask yourself,what do you want to see happen at the end of the comics? Thats what I did.

I understand that. And your ideas, for an older Batman, aren't bad. But this isn't a Batman at the end of his prime. This is a Batman who's barely been active two years.

Now I know you said you wanted your idea to come after Batman 3, but Nolan isn't doing a fourth, he's done at B3. In which case, your scenario just doesn't fit. Having Batman die in B3 would be a gigantic waste of character, and wouldn't make sense from a storytelling aspect, because Batman hasn't really become BATMAN yet. He's not the hero we know he will be.

Unmasking is similarly foolish, because it ends his career just like dying does.

Neither of these fit for Nolan's movies. It would be bad storytelling, and would not make sense at all in the context of the character. You want to see Batman die after only three years in the field (unless the third installment spans multiple years, which I doubt).

Nolan wants to end his story. I don't think he's ever said he wants to end Batman's story. He'll wrap up his story arc with Batman, which has dealt only with Batman's beginning. To skip straight to the end would be foolish.
 
Dear Bruce,

I already had my hands full with Lex, alien gods and super computers, so thanks for sending me the Joker, Penguin, Hush, Ivy and all the other freaks. Real classy of you man! You re a real hero!

**** you very much,
Clark.

:woot:
 
I guess when its put like that, it makes sense. I get that.

But I still see him being revealed as Batman, just not so soon. I'll give it a while.:up:

I still want to make it clear why I had him unmask though. He was caught in a bad situation,he was helpless and could do nothing,all of Gotham was watching.

Joker's threat was "Kill me,and the secret will remain safe,and you can continue being a murderer. If you dont, your actions alone will condemn you,and I'll kill the hostages and will reveal the truth". Batman's response was basically "Fine you want the secret revealed",then unmasked himself. Joker wasnt expecting that,and realised defeat.

I suppose I can do ANOTHER re-write,lol.
 
I guess when its put like that, it makes sense. I get that.

But I still see him being revealed as Batman, just not so soon. I'll give it a while.:up:

I still want to make it clear why I had him unmask though. He was caught in a bad situation,he was helpless and could do nothing,all of Gotham was watching.

Joker's threat was "Kill me,and the secret will remain safe,and you can continue being a murderer. If you dont, your actions alone will condemn you,and I'll kill the hostages and will reveal the truth". Batman's response was basically "Fine you want the secret revealed",then unmasked himself. Joker wasnt expecting that,and realised defeat.

I suppose I can do ANOTHER re-write,lol.

I get that, and I don't mind the idea. I have no problem with Batman sacrificing his identity to save innocents. But for a Batman fifteen years down the road, not now.
 

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