The Dark Knight Rises How should Nolan End Batman's Story?

[Rumpy Bulge Dubz]

You seriously think Nolan would literally retire Batman?

does a bear **** in the woods?


we're talking about Hollywood here. You seriously have to ask that question?

 

[Golgo-13]

I would love more than anything to believe that but how do you not get "retirement" out of what he said in the interview below:

In TDK, Bruce was conflicted about being Batman. He was considering giving up being Bats, now that the city had Harvey Dent, and might not need Batman anymore. An ample ending could be that Bruce decides that he will always need be Batman.

I think what they lost in TDK was the fact that Bruce Wayne had become Batman due to his parents death, not solely because the streets of Gotham were plagued with crime. He was mentally scared by that incident, and that incident alone. TDK didn't touch on that at all. In The Mask of the Phantasm movie, there's a scene where Bruce is talking to his dead parents about not wanting to be a vigilante anymore, and that he could simply donate more money to Law Enforcement; well, what Batman really comes down to is that Bruce Wayne & Batman are one entity. There is no giving up being Batman for Bruce. Bruce, in some ways, is just as f'ed up as the nut jobs he catches and puts away...that's why he's so good at it. In B3 they need to take it back to this.

 

[Artistsean]

To tell the truth, I got super excited when I heard that Nolan would end the film with a real ending because "these characters don't go on and on."
I got to imagining Nolan going all out doing things the comic can't do, and no other film has done yet, because its the end of his Batman films.
I am not saying I want to see Batman die, and it seems like its too soon since the start of his mission to retire, but if something like this happens it would be new and different. and I think i would be ok with that.
Maybe Nolan will have Batman start the JLA.

 

[TheBatman072]

In TDK, Bruce was conflicted about being Batman. He was considering giving up being Bats, now that the city had Harvey Dent, and might not need Batman anymore. An ample ending could be that Bruce decides that he will always need be Batman.

I think what they lost in TDK was the fact that Bruce Wayne had become Batman due to his parents death, not solely because the streets of Gotham were plagued with crime. He was mentally scared by that incident, and that incident alone. TDK didn't touch on that at all. In The Mask of the Phantasm movie, there's a scene where Bruce is talking to his dead parents about not wanting to be a vigilante anymore, and that he could simply donate more money to Law Enforcement; well, what Batman really comes down to is that Bruce Wayne & Batman are one entity. There is no giving up being Batman for Bruce. Bruce, in some ways, is just as f'ed up as the nut jobs he catches and puts away...that's why he's so good at it. In B3 they need to take it back to this.

No, Bruce becoming Batman was a means of DEALING with his parents' deaths.

He became Batman because of the CRIME that took their lives. So no one else would have to go through what he did.

His reason was crime, the catalyst was his parents.

 

[Artistsean]

I would like this film to establish that Bruce is Batman, like the cartoon did. They said it in the first film, "This face (Bruce's face) is your mask. That Batman is the Real you."
So they have set up what the cartoon did, that Bruce is the mask, and that Batman is the real Bruce Wayne.
They even show Bruce, willing to make Bruce Wayne look bad get drunk at parties/ crash his car and look careless/and look like a snob and coward.
So maybe this film will finalize that Bruce can never stop being Batman because he is Batman. Maybe what "Ends" in this movie is his HARSH transition into being Batman. (It will take some getting used to, there will be bumps along the way, but after a while you will get good.)
I'd like to see Bruce unable, whatever else he does, to give up being Batman.
Not sure how else they will end it or what else the movie will be about, but I hope they cement that idea of Bruce being Batman and Bruce Wayne being the mask.

 

[DCW]

Not saying I support this but…maybe what could happen is Batman saves Gotham from whatever is threatening the city throughout the entire movie and gets redeemed in the city’s eyes. Wayne realizes that he is destined to always be Batman and that the city needs him.

Then it cuts to some sort of epilogue. Like years and years later with Wayne and Gordon older, not like decrepit in wheel chairs but older, maybe Wayne is in his late 50s or early 60s and Gordon’s a bit older, however much older that Wayne he is. And they like sit down with a coffee or something and just talk like old friends, similar to The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel I believe.

But from their talk you gather that Batman fought crime for many years after the movies events and protected the city for however many years. Maybe there could be a cameo and Gordon could ask how Dick was doing or something like that. (I’m an avid supporter of no Robin in the series but I wouldn’t really mind something like that.)

Anyway, not really supporting this, just thought this could be a possibility for what Nolan meant.

 

[namtaB]

Batman saves the city, is redeemed in the public eye, and gets fully deputized.

 

[Golgo-13]

I would like this film to establish that Bruce is Batman, like the cartoon did. They said it in the first film, "This face (Bruce's face) is your mask. That Batman is the Real you."
So they have set up what the cartoon did, that Bruce is the mask, and that Batman is the real Bruce Wayne.
They even show Bruce, willing to make Bruce Wayne look bad get drunk at parties/ crash his car and look careless/and look like a snob and coward.

That's exactly what i was talking about with what was missing from TDK. Batman/Wayne is a ****ing nut job who's uses his public face of Bruce Wayne the millionaire to hide the fact that he's as crazy as the ****ers he goes after. I know there was alot going on in the TDK, but this has always been the essence of what make the Batman character special. I'd like B3 to re-emphasize this. In TDK, he seemed too normal. He wanted a normal life with Rachel, blah, blah, blah...too Spider-Man like. Bruce Wayne is/should be obsessed with being Batman to the point where ppl like Alfred are the only ones in his life that prevent him from really going off the deep end.

Btw, as much as i like the Lucius Fox character, i think it is a good time for him to die.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Batman saves the city, is redeemed in the public eye, and gets fully deputized.

Realistically.

Batman saves the city,but a greater majority of the public however still hate him for killing Harvey Dent,the Police continue the manhunt as crime will not go unpunished.

You can redeem yourself in soul,but in the eyes of the law,zilch.

 

[TheBatman072]

Thank Zeus some of you aren't in charge of this franchise.

 

[Golgo-13]

Batman saves the city, is redeemed in the public eye, and gets fully deputized.

I'm sorry but

If this is this case why not give him a bright red phone, have him walk around in broad daylight, and host charity events as well.

 

[Marx]

I don't think Nolan is going to 'end' Batman. All he means is a conclusion to the Nolan movies. Batman isn't going to die. Bruce Wayne isn't going to quit being Batman. Alfred isn't going to die or retire. More than likely, the movie will end with the same triumphant last shot as Batman (1989) or something very similar.

I'm still hoping to see a scene of Batman at the Wayne Grave.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I find people only get truly appreciated is when their dead...So Batman should be that...

But who says to get appreciated in death,you have to be dead? And who says retirement means its permanent?

 

[Golgo-13]

I don't think Nolan is going to 'end' Batman. All he means is a conclusion to the Nolan movies. Batman isn't going to die. Bruce Wayne isn't going to quit being Batman. Alfred isn't going to die or retire. More than likely, the movie will end with the same triumphant last shot as Batman (1989) or something very similar.

I'm still hoping to see a scene of Batman at the Wayne Grave.

This.

 

[Crook]

I would like this film to establish that Bruce is Batman, like the cartoon did. They said it in the first film, "This face (Bruce's face) is your mask. That Batman is the Real you."
So they have set up what the cartoon did, that Bruce is the mask, and that Batman is the real Bruce Wayne.

Am I the only one that finds this notion a bit ridiculous for this particular Batman portrayal? The Batman of these films is incredibly animated, theatrical, and inherently false.

The voice is obviously fake, as well as the bravado he carries when interacting with the baddies. If that is the "real" Bruce, I'd be seriously worried of his mental condition. In spite of the dialog (which doesn't even fit imo), I think it's quite obvious Batman is just as much of a fabrication as the Playboy Wayne. Can you imagine Bruce, sans mask and costume, talking with the Bat-persona to someone like Alfred in the mansion? I sure as hell can't. Thinking about it just makes me laugh.

 

[Rumpy Bulge Dubz]

Am I the only one that finds this notion a bit ridiculous for this particular Batman portrayal? The Batman of these films is incredibly animated, theatrical, and inherently false.

The voice is obviously fake, as well as the bravado he carries when interacting with the baddies. If that is the "real" Bruce, I'd be seriously worried of his mental condition. In spite of the dialog (which doesn't even fit imo), I think it's quite obvious Batman is just as much of a fabrication as the Playboy Wayne. Can you imagine Bruce, sans mask and costume, talking with the Bat-persona to someone like Alfred in the mansion? I sure as hell can't. Thinking about it just makes me laugh.

no you're not alone, I fully agree. I've always been in the camp that's hated Bale's "bat-voice" since Begins. I don't know, maybe it's because I grew up on Timm/Dini's animated series that ran in the 90's and fell in love with Kevin Conroy's portrayal. See, he gives BOTH Bruce Wayne and Batman an actual VOICE, (I guess you could say Adam West as well, though his batvoice was his bruce voice, the same), either way, I'm use to Bats having a voice and not growling.

to each his own though, as they say

 

[Solidus]

I disagree about the voice.

I was raised originally by my father reading/me reading a lot of the late 80's comics prior to Dini's TAS (which is masterful no doubt). But I remember in some of them the bubbles were different when Batman spoke. I always assumed it was a growl, and more animalistic.

As for Batman. Yea he is insane. TKJ always pointed that way to me, and just the relationship between him and the Joker. The Joker knows they are both insane, but each took a different moral path. Bruce does have a mental condition, and most pyschologists would probably say so if you had some one in the real world like Bruce Wayne/Bats.

And yea its to eaches own. It's just when I read/was read the comics at a younger age I always assumed there was a harsh voice as Bats, and a normal voice as Bruce,.

I will admit at times in TDK it went a bit far, but there were other times where I felt it was perfect, especially when he's interrogating Maroni.

 

[Artistsean]

Yes, Batman's costume, voice, and methods are very theatrical, but what is truly Batman is his personality and his drive.
Bruce is a cover because he is shallow, loves to party, frivolous with his money, cowardly, a disgrace to his family's name.
Batman is driven, focused, brave, fearless, couragous, true, and all that good stuff.
In Batman Begins Bruce pretends to become sloppy drunk and insults all his guests, including many friends of his parents. He lets people think he burned down his own mansion. He pretended to date two girls at the same time. Bought a restaurant to show how rich he was, and to look sort of snobby and mean. He acted like he had no care for business.
In Dark Knight Bruce slept through an important business meeting, looking unconcerned about his own company. He crashed his car to save a guy's life but then pretended not to even know he saved anyone, he was merely driving recklessly.
The Batman is a symbol he created, but so is Bruce. His true person is a Batman that looks and sounds like Bruce.

I don't think Batman is crazy, personally, I think he is mall adjusted or whatever the term might be. He lost his parents at an early age. He didn't have a break down or anything. He is methodical, knows exactly what he is doing. He knows the line and refuses to cross it, even when the Joker tried to push him. I think maybe thats what the Joker was trying to show in the Dark Knight, that Batman is just as crazy as the rest of the criminals.

For the third film I would like to see them expand and finalize that idea that Batman is who Bruce really is, but it is too tempting to not imagine all the crazy ways it could end.

 

[TheBatman072]

I think Nolan's gone on record as saying that there are 3 versions of his Batman.

There's Batman that criminals see, there's the drunken playboy Bruce Wayne that the world sees, and there's the in between that people like Alfred and Lucius and Rachel saw.

I prefer that. It was even that way to an extent in the animated series. The idiot playboy philanthropist Bruce in public, Batman at night, and then Bruce around Alfred and Robin.

I like that a lot.

 

[SuperFerret]

Am I the only one that finds this notion a bit ridiculous for this particular Batman portrayal? The Batman of these films is incredibly animated, theatrical, and inherently false.

The voice is obviously fake, as well as the bravado he carries when interacting with the baddies. If that is the "real" Bruce, I'd be seriously worried of his mental condition. In spite of the dialog (which doesn't even fit imo), I think it's quite obvious Batman is just as much of a fabrication as the Playboy Wayne. Can you imagine Bruce, sans mask and costume, talking with the Bat-persona to someone like Alfred in the mansion? I sure as hell can't. Thinking about it just makes me laugh.

You're not seriously worried about his mental condition? The guy lives his entire life off of a poorly thought out oath he took as an eight-year old, dresses as a Batman and dispenses socially constructive violence on a nightly basis.

It still surprises me that there are people out there who don't see that Batman is just as crazy as the people he fights, but then, there are people who think the Punisher is a hero, so

 

[Artistsean]

Not to go too off topic, but Batman isn't crazy.
In the real world he is crazy, or at the very least weird and eccentric. But in the world of the comics, in his world, he isn't. He is very methodical and thought all this out. He dealt with his parent's death by becoming the Batman, he saves the city with the symbol of the Batman. He has standards and lines he wont cross. He plans everything, trains, and looks at everything carefully. In the comic book world he isn't crazy. (In my opinion anyway).
Even though I am not a Punisher fan, he isn't crazy either. He sees killing as the only solution. He sees his murdering them as a necessary evil, if it must be done he will do it because he has nothing to loose, and if he has to be punished he will take the punishment after he is done. I don't like the Punisher myself, he is sort of a version of Batman if Batman took his methods to their final step and instead of just beating up bad guys or capturing them for cops, he killed them.
But in the comic book world neither are really crazy.

What if the last movie had Bruce begin the formation of the Justice League? It might be too out of character or out of style for the movie, but it would be within Batman's character in this movie world.
If Batman found heroes out there with his sense of justice and who were more powerful than he is, like Superman or the Flash, he would probably try to bring them together. Not only to help them become focused and save more lives, but to also keep his eyes on them just in case.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Batman's perk is he IS crazy,but used his tragedy to do good,and not let it turn him into a monster like those who he fights. Those who have **** in their lives use it as an excuse to dish it out on other people,Batman could have let it screw him up too,but focused his **** onto the people who caused him to have it in the first place.

But Batman's noble feature is that he's doing it more for other people than himself,cause he cares.

 

[Marx]

I think Nolan's Joker and Maroni put it best when they talked about Batman having 'all of these rules'. Batman/Bruce Wayne is just as crazy as those he fights, but his 'rules' keep him in line.

I'm not quite sure how anyone can argue that a man dressing up as a giant bat running around at night fighting people doesn't have something wrong upstairs.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The real person is the Bruce Wayne in private. If he truly were "Batman," then he'd be sneaking around Wayne Manor, from his bedroom to the kitchen, and investigate the cabinets quietly, trying not to let his butler know he's around. Then, he'd grab Alfred by the jacket and scream, "WHERE'S THE JELLY? WHERE IS IT?!" Batman is just a mask, as is his public display of Bruce Wayne.

 

[Crook]

Yes, Batman's costume, voice, and methods are very theatrical, but what is truly Batman is his personality and his drive.
Bruce is a cover because he is shallow, loves to party, frivolous with his money, cowardly, a disgrace to his family's name.
Batman is driven, focused, brave, fearless, couragous, true, and all that good stuff.
In Batman Begins Bruce pretends to become sloppy drunk and insults all his guests, including many friends of his parents. He lets people think he burned down his own mansion. He pretended to date two girls at the same time. Bought a restaurant to show how rich he was, and to look sort of snobby and mean. He acted like he had no care for business.
In Dark Knight Bruce slept through an important business meeting, looking unconcerned about his own company. He crashed his car to save a guy's life but then pretended not to even know he saved anyone, he was merely driving recklessly.
The Batman is a symbol he created, but so is Bruce. His true person is a Batman that looks and sounds like Bruce.

See, I don't think that's entirely accurate either. Apart from his drive, the Batman persona (in the Nolan films) is entirely false. The way he speaks, acts, and behaves, even around friends, is an act of showmanship to the myth he has created.

If we're to look at the 3-personalities, I think it's without a doubt that the "Private Bruce" is the true personification of his being. It is the only state at which Bruce can be himself and express his true emotions (albeit only to Alfred) without having to exert unnatural effort.

"Batman being the true Bruce" only works for interpretations in which Bruce is literally uncomfortable in his own skin. Keaton's portrayal being a great example of how this concept works. I could believe that anytime Keaton was without that mask, he felt naked and at times, urging to burst out from that shell.

You're not seriously worried about his mental condition? The guy lives his entire life off of a poorly thought out oath he took as an eight-year old, dresses as a Batman and dispenses socially constructive violence on a nightly basis.

It still surprises me that there are people out there who don't see that Batman is just as crazy as the people he fights, but then, there are people who think the Punisher is a hero, so

Ha, I had a feeling I'd get this response from someone. Since we're so eager to hand out backhanded insults, I think anyone that reads Batman as mentally unstable as the foes that make up his rogues gallery, is grossly misunderstanding the character.

Here is a man who has spent the majority of his life training his mind and body to its limits, in the name of an oath sprung from absolute altruism. To do his job on a day-to-day basis requires the upmost levels of concentration and fortitude. To even insinuate that Bruce is crazy, indicates he lacks the control necessary to function as a human with a sound mind. When Batman has been known to be a master of prep-time, a deductive genius, titled the "World's Greatest Detective", and the DC Comics equivalent of Sherlock Holmes, you will understand why I find your position very, very, very ... wrong.