The Wolverine how to fix wolverines character

[Wolverine1988]

Okay people, it's time for an example.

Michael Keaton.

I've said it before on this thread but I shall explain it further.

What exactly was Keaton given? He hardly had anything! In that first movie, he had about six to eight lines. BUT, despite what Bale has done, people STILL go back to Keaton and say he is Batman. You see, Keaton was able to take what little he had on the script and give a memorable performance that still have people on the street referring him to Batman.

Jackman was given a lot more than Keaton and I saw X1. He was not written as a cuddly teddy bear. It was clear he was an outsider who was different from the others. I am telling you, put Kiefer Sutherland in that same role with those same lines and you will be amazed by the difference. It's the delivery of the line combined with how you look. I don't know what other way to say it or put it. I was staring at a damn Weapon X comic at Forbidden Planet a few days ago and the guy I am seeing there is not the guy up on the screen. The guy in the comic LOOKS, the key word, LOOKS interesting.
Am I getting warmer now?

I thought Hugh Jackman was great as Wolverine in x1, alot of instances showed his anti hero self.

Him telling rogue to get out, i mean its not like some homeless guy was in the back it was a 17 year old innocent looking girl , you have to be pretty big ass to tell her to eff off at first glance, granted he went to go pick her up but that whole dialogue scene with Rogue and Wolverine in the car was great, i mean if you were Rogue wouldn't you be pretty timid? Not just the fact that he has metal claws coming out of his hands, but Hugh Jackman hade a very intimidating presence in that car.

Also him waking up after being taken in and first thing he does is grab jean greay from behind like she was a hostage?If i was jean grey i would have **** my self.

Not to mention the first time he meets the x men in xaviers office the fact that he just doesn't like Cyclops from the get go and was ready to toss him around just for standing in his way.


A few more instances i dont feel like typing up buti felt in that movie reallly captured Wolverines bad side and his on the edge personality.

And to the people saying Wolverine got "softer" as the movies progressed, The character had to progress, Wolverine at the begning went from this loner who didn't like being apart of any team to a guy who felt accepted for once in his life and a part of something , while at the same time obviously he still hade shades of his on the edge, anti hero sides.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Okay people, it's time for an example.

Michael Keaton.

I've said it before on this thread but I shall explain it further.

What exactly was Keaton given? He hardly had anything! In that first movie, he had about six to eight lines. BUT, despite what Bale has done, people STILL go back to Keaton and say he is Batman. You see, Keaton was able to take what little he had on the script and give a memorable performance that still have people on the street referring him to Batman.

Jackman was given a lot more than Keaton and I saw X1. He was not written as a cuddly teddy bear. It was clear he was an outsider who was different from the others. I am telling you, put Kiefer Sutherland in that same role with those same lines and you will be amazed by the difference. It's the delivery of the line combined with how you look. I don't know what other way to say it or put it. I was staring at a damn Weapon X comic at Forbidden Planet a few days ago and the guy I am seeing there is not the guy up on the screen. The guy in the comic LOOKS, the key word, LOOKS interesting.
Am I getting warmer now?

Actually, for me, your much much colder.

1. Why are you so obsessed with the idea of kiefer in the role? It's actually baffling me.

2. I'm not the biggest fan of Keaton... i'd say Bale IS Batman for me, but that's just my opinion and not a widely shared one.

3. When they eventually reboot X-men, people will still look back at Hugh and say he IS wolverine IMO.

 

[truth]

1. Kiefer Sutherland may not be the obvious choice, but he has the acting, the presence, the size and the voice to make a VERY good Wolverine that people would not expect. Sutherland is one SCARY dude, Hugh isn't

2. Keaton is Batman

3. That's their concern. Let's get an alternative first, before we can say anyone is anyone. We haven't seen the other side of the coin yet

 

[C. Lee]

I thought the writing was okay, but at times it just fell flat. The "love triangle" between Jean, Scott, and Logan always fell flat to me, mostly because Cyclops was written as such a boring character. If they had written Cyclops more likable, (and Marsden can play likable) then it would have been more dynamic.

To me, that was kind of the point of the scenes....Cyclops and Jean were in thier relationship so long, that it was at the "everything is fine, everything is smooth, everything is non drama" point....so the introduction of Wolverine was the introduction of the dangerous bad boy that stirred the pot.

 

[truth]

Erm, there was NO relationship between Cyclops and Jean. I think we can all agree Cyclops was shafted in the film to promote Wolverine's character.

 

[C. Lee]

Erm, there was NO relationship between Cyclops and Jean. I think we can all agree Cyclops was shafted in the film to promote Wolverine's character.

Erm, there WAS a relationship between Cyclops and Jean....it may not have been the one you wanted or portrayed the way you wanted...but it existed.

 

[Wolverine1988]

I dont get Kiefer Sutherland either, just because he can play a intense yelling character doesn't mean he can play Wolverine.

Hugh Jackman just looks so much like Wolverine , only other actor right now i could see as a Wolverine is Gary Sinise.I am suprised his name isn't mentioned enough as an alterante for Wolverine

 

[Infinity9999x]

Okay people, it's time for an example.

Michael Keaton.

I've said it before on this thread but I shall explain it further.

What exactly was Keaton given? He hardly had anything! In that first movie, he had about six to eight lines. BUT, despite what Bale has done, people STILL go back to Keaton and say he is Batman. You see, Keaton was able to take what little he had on the script and give a memorable performance that still have people on the street referring him to Batman.

Jackman was given a lot more than Keaton and I saw X1. He was not written as a cuddly teddy bear. It was clear he was an outsider who was different from the others. I am telling you, put Kiefer Sutherland in that same role with those same lines and you will be amazed by the difference. It's the delivery of the line combined with how you look. I don't know what other way to say it or put it. I was staring at a damn Weapon X comic at Forbidden Planet a few days ago and the guy I am seeing there is not the guy up on the screen. The guy in the comic LOOKS, the key word, LOOKS interesting.
Am I getting warmer now?

I see your viewpoint, I just don't agree. I thought Jackman was fine for what he was given. And I personally wouldn't have cast Sutherland as Wolverine, I wanted someone like Crowe.

But again, I doubt I would have liked either of them more then Hugh, since the character wasn't written the way I wanted him to be. I though Hugh did fine. You don't. That's fine.

As I said before, that's called an opinion. Which is not a fact, contrary to what you may believe.

 

[danoyse]

Was watching X1 last night as it was on TV. Ha, have not seen it in such a long time.

One scene stood out for me. When Wolverine grabs Cyclops in Xavier's office. You know Cyclops looked like the smaller, weedier chump while Wolverine towered over him and looked like the bigger bully. As someone mentioned which would have worked, Hugh should have been Cyclops. But then Cyclop's character was like watching paint dry. WHO ARE THESE DAMN WRITERS?!!!!

Please, Wolverine's character DOES need fixing...BOTH the actor and the writing. And no, this is not an opinion...IT IS FACT. Opinions get us nowhere and is pointless. Let's get down to the truth and make the product right.

Sounds like it's still an opinion to me.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't think Wolverine has EVER been bad in any of the X-films. It's the sh***y f***ing stories they've written for the last two features which have killed them. Hugh Jackman was fine.

 

[truth]

key word: fine.

Shouldn't Wolverine be more than fine? Script or no script, an amazing actor will always give YOU SOMETHING special.

 

[Infinity9999x]

key word: fine.

Shouldn't Wolverine be more than fine? Script or no script, an amazing actor will always give YOU SOMETHING special.

No, that's a foolish way to view actors. A great actor can only do so much with a crappy script. Anthony Hopkins is a great actor. In Alexander, he wasn't very good. Ben Kingsly, great actor, in Prince of Persia, he didn't do anything special. Dustin Hoffman in Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium, Natalie Portman and Ewan McGreggor in Star Wars, Jeremy Irons in Dungeons And Dragons, George Clooney and Uma Thurman in Batman and Robin, Micheal Caine in Jaws 4: The Revenge, and Robert DiNero in Rocky and Bulwinkle.

The list could go on and on. Bad scripts can only have so much done with them. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue, no matter who says it.

 

[Squidboy]

Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan weren't their best in The Last Stand either, so I agree that a bad script is bad no matter who reads the lines

 

[C. Lee]

No, that's a foolish way to view actors. A great actor can only do so much with a crappy script. Anthony Hopkins is a great actor. In Alexander, he wasn't very good. Ben Kingsly, great actor, in Prince of Persia, he didn't do anything special. Dustin Hoffman in Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium, Natalie Portman and Ewan McGreggor in Star Wars, Jeremy Irons in Dungeons And Dragons, George Clooney and Uma Thurman in Batman and Robin, Micheal Caine in Jaws 4: The Revenge, and Robert DiNero in Rocky and Bulwinkle.

The list could go on and on. Bad scripts can only have so much done with them. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue, no matter who says it.

Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan weren't their best in The Last Stand either, so I agree that a bad script is bad no matter who reads the lines

Logic and rationality....I like it, refreshing.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

1. Kiefer Sutherland may not be the obvious choice, but he has the acting, the presence, the size and the voice to make a VERY good Wolverine that people would not expect. Sutherland is one SCARY dude, Hugh isn't

Tell you what, find me a clip of him being scary, and i might get it... right now, i just don't.

2. Keaton is Batman

What a great well written response to my opinion on Keaton and Bale... now i understand your point of view

3. That's their concern. Let's get an alternative first, before we can say anyone is anyone. We haven't seen the other side of the coin yet

There is no other side of the coin... the next guy might end up playing Wolverine exactly like Hugh (i.e. Brandon Routh in SR)

And i was pointing out that the trend is to prefer the original for nostalgic reasons. Classic is cool.

Erm, there was NO relationship between Cyclops and Jean. I think we can all agree Cyclops was shafted in the film to promote Wolverine's character.

There was a relationship in the sense that the audience knew they were a couple... but beyond that it was like watching strangers on the subway. They had no chemistry.

In fairness, Marsden was the only thing that I liked about Cyclops, Jean and the whole triangle. I like him as an actor. I think he was terrible for the role, but at least I actually still felt like he was conveying emotions... despite having no lines to work with that actually gave him that opportunity.

Famke on the other hand... i mean i'm not sure if it was intentional... but she was playing it as though Jean obviously didn't love Scott, and hadnt done for a while, but had just stuck with him until Wolverine came along and heated up her juices.

No, that's a foolish way to view actors. A great actor can only do so much with a crappy script. Anthony Hopkins is a great actor. In Alexander, he wasn't very good. Ben Kingsly, great actor, in Prince of Persia, he didn't do anything special. Dustin Hoffman in Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium, Natalie Portman and Ewan McGreggor in Star Wars, Jeremy Irons in Dungeons And Dragons, George Clooney and Uma Thurman in Batman and Robin, Micheal Caine in Jaws 4: The Revenge, and Robert DiNero in Rocky and Bulwinkle.

The list could go on and on. Bad scripts can only have so much done with them. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue, no matter who says it.

Yup yup yup.

 

[Squidboy]

Tell you what, find me a clip of him being scary, and i might get it... right now, i just don't.

I don't think Wolverine needs to really be scary, so much as threatening, and Sutherland can pull that off without needing to be too over the top. In the first season of 24 he very calmly explained to a man that if he didn't get what he wanted, he'd force a towel down the guy's throat and let it partially digest inside of him, before tearing the towel out (and the lining of his stomach with it). So I can kind of see how Kiefer could make a good Wolverine, just because of the presence he can carry, but I wouldn't particularly want him to play that role.

 

[truth]

Lost Boys, Stand By Me, Phone Booth and pretty much the whole of 24 prove that Kiefer can play Wolverine.

And yes, it's not about being SCARY, wrong choice of words. It's about having that PARTICULAR presence that Wolverine should have.



Ha, Hopeful, so you are comparing Hugh to Christopher Reeve with the whole classic nostalgic thing. Please, get back down to Earth. Hugh is a BILLION, GAZILLION miles away from what Reeve did. Hugh was solid but someone else can do A LOT better.

 

[ALittlePush]

Lost Boys, Stand By Me, Phone Booth and pretty much the whole of 24 prove that Kiefer can play Wolverine.

And yes, it's not about being SCARY, wrong choice of words. It's about having that PARTICULAR presence that Wolverine should have.

I think the words you might be looking for is menacing presence. Lost Boys is one of my favourite films but when I'm watching it, the thought of Sutherland playing Wolverine never ever crosses my mind. It's not so much that he couldn't play Wolverine but more, IMO, he shouldn't. I would love for Sutherland to have a role in an X-Men film. However, I don't think Wolverine should be that role. Sutherland just doesn't feel right for Wolverine.

Ha, Hopeful, so you are comparing Hugh to Christopher Reeve with the whole classic nostalgic thing. Please, get back down to Earth. Hugh is a BILLION, GAZILLION miles away from what Reeve did. Hugh was solid but someone else can do A LOT better.

Just out of curiosity, What exactly is it that you have against Hugh Jackman (aside from height obviously)? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your whole argument on why Jackman wasn't that good a Wolverine seems to stem from the fact that he's tall.

 

[GuestStar2004]

i think Hugh Jackman played a good wolverine in X1, but as the films went on he started to act like he knew he was playing a sex god to girls, and that it was all about image not character

 

[truth]

I think the words you might be looking for is menacing presence. Lost Boys is one of my favourite films but when I'm watching it, the thought of Sutherland playing Wolverine never ever crosses my mind. It's not so much that he couldn't play Wolverine but more, IMO, he shouldn't. I would love for Sutherland to have a role in an X-Men film. However, I don't think Wolverine should be that role. Sutherland just doesn't feel right for Wolverine.



Just out of curiosity, What exactly is it that you have against Hugh Jackman (aside from height obviously)? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your whole argument on why Jackman wasn't that good a Wolverine seems to stem from the fact that he's tall.

Apart from his height, he is wrong for Wolverine. Wrong aura. He has the features, but just does not come across as menacing, scary, threatening or uneasy. I felt too comfortable when he was around in the screen. It's like he was trying too hard to be uneasy and tough. It should come natural, it just didn't with him.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Apart from his height, he is wrong for Wolverine. Wrong aura. He has the features, but just does not come across as menacing, scary, threatening or uneasy. I felt too comfortable when he was around in the screen. It's like he was trying too hard to be uneasy and tough. It should come natural, it just didn't with him.

I understand that you feel that way. I just disagree.

I think Hugh was hampered by the script. Not to a big degree until X3 and Origins, And as I said above, great actors can suffer from poorly written scripts.

 

[truth]

I'm sorry, but the X1 script was not poor. The X3 one was, the X1 script was just standard. You put a better actor in there, he can take standard words and make them into something special.

Gary Oldman for example who is amazing in EVERYTHING. Crap script, average script, weird script.

But again, the X1 script was not poorly written.

 

[Squidboy]

If he were a little younger and a great deal taller, I could see Kiefer making a great Sabretooth. Especially if you go by Lost Boys alone, I could definitely have seen him playing the role in the late 80's/early 90's. I would say Omega Red if he was taller as well (he can fake a Russian accent, from what I remember), but they could always swap the characters' positions by having a short, scrappy Arkady facing off against a slightly taller Wolverine. But then Dolph Lundgren would be out of a job, so there's really no winning for Kiefer in a Wolverine movie.

 

[ALittlePush]

If he were a little younger and a great deal taller, I could see Kiefer making a great Sabretooth. Especially if you go by Lost Boys alone, I could definitely have seen him playing the role in the late 80's/early 90's.

I agree with this.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I'm sorry, but the X1 script was not poor. The X3 one was, the X1 script was just standard. You put a better actor in there, he can take standard words and make them into something special.

Gary Oldman for example who is amazing in EVERYTHING. Crap script, average script, weird script.

But again, the X1 script was not poorly written.

Well, I haven't seen all of Gary Oldman's movies, and of the ones I've watched none of them have been bad scripts. Except possibly the 5th Element. That script wasn't great, but he did pretty good as the over-the top villain. I'd have to see a movie with a truly bad script and see how he fares. Because as I've shown above, even great actors can't do much with bad scripts. To expect them to rise above it is foolish. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue, regardless of who is saying it.

And X1 was not poorly written, but in terms of Wolverine's character, it was not written the way I wanted it to be. It was close, but there were things I would have liked them to do differently. And I personally think that Hugh was fine in X1, and I really doubt that anyone else would have been all that better.

But I didn't have a problem with Hugh.