Daredevil How would Avengers characters change the narrative?

[Hypestyle]

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So, how would the inclusion of one of the original Avengers characters as a guest star in one episode (or more) change the narrative of the first season? The second?

Iron Man
Hulk
Thor
Captain America
Hawkeye
Black Widow

Out of the original six, Black Widow has the most history in comics with Daredevil. So far it doesn't look as if Matt has ever encountered Natasha yet. Maybe if the Russian Mob (or someone with a connection to her "Red Room" past) starts asserting itself in Hell's Kitchen, she might show up.

If Banner were ever put on trial for his Hulk rampages, it would be interesting to see Matt as his attorney; maybe this would be a good way to bring in Jennifer Walters as well.

Outside of Stark's charity interests donating a grant to a local organization or person, I don't see him hanging out in the Hell's Kitchen area at all.

This Hawkeye is married with a family who live in a rural area, so it's unclear how Clint might show up.

Unless Thor decides on a whim to go on a bar crawl in the area, it's not likely he'd show up locally.

Before the events of Civil War, I could see Steve Rogers deciding to visit more of NYC just for the general experience of seeing more of the modern world. So far in the MCU he hasn't had a "street world" adventure, though.. I suppose Matt may have been passed along some stories from his dad about the legend of Capt. America.. (though I'm thinking Matt's father was born well after WWII, based on this timeline)..

 

[MbJ]

Out of the original six, Black Widow has the most history in comics with Daredevil. So far it doesn't look as if Matt has ever encountered Natasha yet. Maybe if the Russian Mob (or someone with a connection to her "Red Room" past) starts asserting itself in Hell's Kitchen, she might show up.

There's more of a chance that Ike Perlmutter will get hit by a meteor tomorrow than there is of Black Widow ever showing up in this series.

 

[scarlet-witch]

I think they would feel so out of place.

 

[NotNickFury]

Depending on their usage, whether in hero or civilian mode, the quiet, street level corner of the MCU slowly starts to expand into something larger and grandiose, and I wouldn't want that. I know there are many folks, and a lot on here, who want more crossovers between the films and the Netflix series, but aside from them already taking place in the same world, I like the fact that the larger heroes of the MCU take care of larger threats, while the likes of Matt, Jessica, Luke and so on take care of stuff on the streets, even when it involves dealing with citizens who hate the superpowered types after the Battle of New York ruining a chunk of Hell's Kitchen.

Heck, even if I'd like something as minute as Jessica going on a date with Scott Lang or having her best friend actually be Carol Danvers instead of Trish, it would feel less grounded, I feel, once you start including people from the larger universe, in part because of how low key the Netflix series have been.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I think they would feel so out of place.

They're are all in the same place though. The MCU

 

[Best]

Pretty sure Tony could immediately expose Fisk in the first season through quick... referencing? I dunno, however that works in the Tony Stark way. And then he'd throw his ass into a deeper hole after exposing him AGAIN in season 2.

Black Widow could easily slip into an Elektra-type role tbh.

Cap exploring Hells Kitchen for a day (back when he was first stepping into the new world). Oh how I'd love for some chumps like Turk and his crew to mess with him.

 

[MbJ]

They're are all in the same place though. The MCU

The same place can have different tones.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The same place can have different tones.

Different tones do nothing to change the fact that they are all operating in the same universe

 

[MbJ]

Different tones do nothing to change the fact that they are all operating in the same universe

Uh, it does. The person in question said the Avengers would feel out of place in Daredevil, which they would. The Avengers movies have a larger, more bombastic and comedic tone than the Netflix shows, hence the comment.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Uh, it does.

Uh, here is the fact: Netflix Marvel TV shows take place in the MCU.

By claiming that the tones changes this fact, you are now literally saying they are not part of the MCU.

The person in question said the Avengers would feel out of place in Daredevil, which they would. The Avengers movies have a larger, more bombastic and comedic tone than the Netflix shows, hence the comment.

and I said to the person in question and to you as well that tones don't change the fact that it is the same universe.

 

[MbJ]

Uh, here is the fact: Netflix Marvel TV shows take place in the MCU.

By claiming that the tones changes this fact, you are now literally saying they are not part of the MCU. and I said to the person in question and to you as well that tones don't change the fact that it is the same universe.

Uh, nobody said it doesn't take place in the MCU. They said the Avengers wouldn't fit the tone of the show. Stuff can take place in the same universe and have a different tone. That's why Daredevil didn't open with the title character dancing around and lip syncing to "Come and Get Your Love" just because it happens to exist in the same universe as Guardians of the Galaxy, amazing as that would have been.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Uh, nobody said it doesn't take place in the MCU.

Uh, nobody except you. You did. I said tone does nothing to change the fact that everybody is in the MCU.

Your response: "it does" - you're saying, tone does change the fact that everybody is in the same universe.

They said the Avengers wouldn't fit the tone of the show.

Yes, and I said tone doesn't change the universe. You said, it does.

Stuff can take place in the same universe and have a different tone. That's why Daredevil didn't open with the title character dancing around and lip syncing to "Come and Get Your Love" just because it happens to exist in the same universe as Guardians of the Galaxy, amazing as that would have been.

Tones can be all the more different, but doesn't change the fact that they're all taking place in the same physical plain of existence which will always keep the door of possibility open narratively that they can cross paths.

 

[MbJ]

Uh, nobody except you. You did.

I didn't. You're just being myopic.

you're saying, tone does change the fact that everybody is in the same universe.

No, I'm saying that the tone means in this instance they might as well be taking place in different universes. Saying they take place in the same universe is a fairly meaningless observation when the tones are so radically different that they are likely never going to meet.

Tones can be all the more different, but doesn't change the fact that they're all taking place in the same physical plain of existence

No it just means certain crossovers are probably never going to happen because they don't mesh well tonally. Hence why you didn't have Rocket Raccoon cracking jokes in Jessica Jones or Howard the Duck showing up to help Cap in The Winter Soldier.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I didn't. You're just being myopic.

now you're just insulting me. I'm being literal, and you're in denial.

I said tone doesn't change the fact that they're in the same universe, you said it does.

No it just means certain crossovers are probably never going to happen because they don't mesh well tonally.

again, tone does nothing to change the fact that they're all in the same plain of existence.

Hence why you didn't have Rocket Raccoon cracking jokes in Jessica Jones or Howard the Duck showing up to help Cap in The Winter Soldier.

the reason why we didn't see that are just because of bullshxt issues with the higher ups. if tone mattered that much then they wouldn't be in the same universe, but they are

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

No, I'm saying that the tone means in this instance they might as well be taking place in different universes. Saying they take place in the same universe is a fairly meaningless observation when the tones are so radically different that they are likely never going to meet.

First of all, you're saying this now, but before you literally did say "it does [change the fact, making them not in the same universe]."

Second of all, "they might as well be taking place in different universes" - but they are not. When Kingpin ripped a guy's head off, somewhere out there is a dancing anthropomorphic tree. The observation cannot possibly be meaningless when the TV shows themselves constantly remind us of the world they are a part of.

And again, a radically different tone does nothing to change the fact that it is the same universe for everyone. I can say that all day.

 

[MbJ]

Sure you can say it all day. It isn't gonna actually change anything though.

the reason why we didn't see that are just because of bullshxt issues with the higher ups.

If you truly believe the only thing keeping Rocket Raccoon out of the Netflix shows is rights issues then you have no idea how filmmaking or TV work, and I really can't help with that.

if tone mattered that much then they wouldn't be in the same universe, but they are

No, if tone didn't matter at all, we'd be seeing all these Avengers and Netflix crossovers that you seem to think are a possibility.

I'm tired of having the same circular arguments though about how the Netflix and movie heroes will totally be crossing over though, so ciao.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Sure you can say it all day. It isn't gonna actually change anything though.

You're right. it isn't going to change anything, just like how tone doesn't change the universe they're all in.

If you truly believe the only thing keeping Rocket Raccoon out of the Netflix shows is rights issues then you have no idea how filmmaking or TV work, and I really can't help with that.

I believe in a great deal of things mbj, but unless you're an insider at disney, there's nothing to suggest you know more about it yourself.

No, if tone didn't matter at all, we'd be seeing all these Avengers and Netflix crossovers that you seem to think are a possibility.

Tone definitely does not matter enough to change the universe, seeing as how they are still in the same universe. They should cross over. If captain america is too "out of tone" to be in the netflix universe then cottonmouth would not have even mentioned him.

I'm tired of having the same circular arguments though about how the Netflix and movie heroes will totally be crossing over though, so ciao.

Nobody made you come here to have these circular arguments, but ciao. I'll be here if you return, though.