Justice League How would you feel about John Stewart amd Wally West instead of Hal and Barry?

[brainchild81]

What about the GL movie did people not like? Hal Jordan, or the entire concept? Most of critics seem to have picked on the very concept of Green Lantern, not on Hal Jordan specifically, but the very notion of the ring, green glowing constructs, etc. John Stewart doesn't change the most harped on aspects of Green Lantern.

It wasn't the character that didn't sell the movie, it was the concept.

People talked about the laughable mask too. John changes that and the lameass daddy issues. Hal again CHANGES NOTHING.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Lame ass daddy issues? As opposed to:

Batman
Thor
Iron Man
Spider-Man
Superman

Hell, not even just superhero films:

Harry Potter
Star Wars
Clash of The Titans


People don't complain about tropes, because if they did, they wouldn't be tropes. People complain about poor writing, which was done very much so.

 

[brainchild81]

Yes. His daddy issues ARE lame compared to theirs. Unlike these far more important heroes, Hal's parent issues aren't essential to his origin or storyline. JL: New Frontier gave us the origin of Hal minus the *****ing about daddy IIRC. His daddy issues are of little importance.

 

[DaveMoral]

Right, because Hal Jordan's model for heroism wasn't his father at all or anything?

Which New Frontier are we talking about here? The animates film or the graphic novel? Because in both it's his father that's the reason he became a fighter pilot.

The movie, like pretty much everything else, mishandled that aspect of the story. Hal's father is just as much his driving force as Thomas Wayne is Bruce's, or Jor-El and Jonathan Kent are Superman's.

I'm beginning to think you just saw the movie and didn't like it. Becauee you liked John Stewart in JLU you've assumed the movie is all there is to say about Hal and thus Hal was the problem, not that the very concept wasn't sold to the GA. Do some reading and come back after that.

For the record, I think the back stories of both Hal Jordan and John Stewart are more interesting in the eras they were created. In the 50s test pilots were the most groundbreaking men in the public eye. Chuck Yeager was a celebrity for breaking the sound barrier. Hal Jordan is a product of that. And John Stewart, including the retconned Marine background, is much much more interestingly as a young black power activist(much like Bobby Seale, founder of the Black Panthers, who served in the Air Force before becoming an activist) of the 70s than he is the bland ex-soldier he's become.

 

[brainchild81]

I already said I'm not in a rush to read his books after the ''compelling” storylines his fans listed. You still haven't shown where John was subordinate on the show yet. Do some watching and come back after that You liked the show so you'll enjoy it more than I would reading some ridiculous upgrade stories that make the character so stupidly powerful you have to depower him to make him readable again. New Frontier comes on later this morning. I'll look for what you're talking about. Maybe I just stopped paying attention because Hal was on screen. He has that effect on me.

 

[DaveMoral]

Read Emerald Dawn or Secret Origins. Hell, read the graphic novel The New Frontier. My point is, you've come into this barely knowing what you're talking about, even about John Stewart.

As far as me watchimg JLU. I watch at least one episode a week with my son. It hasn't been long at all since I've watched it. Even most of the premeire episodes John is subordinate to Bats and Supes. The only time he's in charge is when he and Flash attack an alien ship together. Martian Manhunter takes more of a leadership role in that show.

 

[cleverusername8]

Read Emerald Dawn or Secret Origins. Hell, read the graphic novel The New Frontier. My point is, you've come into this barely knowing what you're talking about, even about John Stewart.

As far as me watchimg JLU. I watch at least one episode a week with my son. It hasn't been long at all since I've watched it. Even most of the premeire episodes John is subordinate to Bats and Supes. The only time he's in charge is when he and Flash attack an alien ship together. Martian Manhunter takes more of a leadership role in that show.

You're right. John is solely a "take orders" guy for the first two seasons under his military and now space cop persona but when JLU hits, he becomes a pretty prominent leader in the League. Actually the very first episode featured him in this capacity. However, I'm done defending John and have moved to the Hal camp. They need to stick to Hal/Barry for the first JL movie and the first round of solo films.

 

[Edguy]

They should cast Jon Stewart as Guy Gardner.

Funny man.

 

[brainchild81]

However, I'm done defending John and gave moved to the Hal camp. They need to stick to Hal/Barry for the first JL movie and the first round of solo films.

Nooooooooooo!

Read Emerald Dawn or Secret Origins. Hell, read the graphic novel The New Frontier. My point is, you've come into this barely knowing what you're talking about, even about John Stewart.

As far as me watchimg JLU. I watch at least one episode a week with my son. It hasn't been long at all since I've watched it. Even most of the premeire episodes John is subordinate to Bats and Supes. The only time he's in charge is when he and Flash attack an alien ship together. Martian Manhunter takes more of a leadership role in that show.

MM didn't like humans and became a coordinator. Mr.Terrific took his place when he left to live amongst humans. Neither was a leader tho, unless you're saying MM was also more of a leader than Supes/Bats. I came here knowing about JLU John, not the ''boring” one y'all kept trying to force into the convo since you honestly can't find too many negatives about JLU John.

Before I look into these other books, did you consider those other storylines they listed to be compelling?

 

[DaveMoral]

I find JLU John pretty boring actually. It uas to do with Timm having to excise the black power aspects of the character out because it wouldn't resonate in the early 2000s while keeping the "angry black man" part he liked. It just renders John a stock stern military man minus what was really interesting about him. Unfortunately, DC followed suit afterward.

 

[brainchild81]

While it woulda probably been cool if they'd left that in, you can understand why they left it out. You don't wanna scare off or alienate the white people. The Hawkgirl thing woulda been much weirder too.

 

[DaveMoral]

Ironically, it would have worked perfectly the way they set up John's backstory. He's been gone a decade, a GL for 15 years. He could have left while black power was still relevant(I don't know what other word to use, since IMO black power is still relevant) and John's alienation from the society he knew could have been all the more impactful.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Plus his experiences on alien worlds (either seeing similar prejudices or entirely integrated planets) could have exacerbated his views on Earth.

 

[DaveMoral]

Plus his experiences on alien worlds (either seeing similar prejudices or entirely integrated planets) could have exacerbated his views on Earth.

Precisely. Man, it's kind of a shame that those kinds of story elements have been abandoned. I think Hal and John would work really well in comica being the elder vets of the Earth GLs who are from an older time.

Ah well. Lost potential. It's a shame John hasn't ever been used to the fullness of his capacity. Even in the 80s when that background could have been used, DC didn't take advantage.

 

[The Guard]

They did just that with John Stewart. It's called MOSAIC.

 

[TheWatcher]

What else has John starred in?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Nothing where he is sole character. Mosaic was the only time he had his own starring book, but was obviously cancelled with the "new look" Green Lantern in Kyle Rayner. He was featured quite a bit in Hal Jordan's Green Lantern title and is now one of three main Lanterns in Green Lantern Corps.

 

[brainchild81]

I might try to check some of John's old stuff out, but I'd been avoiding it because everybody always says John's boring in the comics. I'll see if I can pull this off w/out spending any money. I'm still happy w/JLU John tho

We're probably a looooong way off from a JL movie anyways. It may be dependent on MOS being a blockbuster and I still have doubts

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

John's only been boring since like the late 90's. Although Geoff Johns can occasionally make him shine, like a polished turd.

 

[brainchild81]

Johns didn't write those stories y'all talked about earlier, right?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Secret Origin was written by Geoff Johns. New Frontier, Emerald Dawn, Emerald Dawn II and Mosaic were not.

Is it specifically Geoff Johns that you are looking for? If so, I'd suggest Rebirth and Sinestro Corps War, they feature all the Lanterns, as I know Hal isn't your favourite, but the main characters are Hal, Kyle and Sinestro.

 

[brainchild81]

I'm just trying to avoid the ones w/ridiculous powerups. No ''powered by gawd” or ''conquered death” stuff

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Rebirth makes mention of it, but I'd still recommend it. It's very fundamentally, a story of both redemption and self forgiveness.

if ridiculous powerups are a turnoff for you, Green Lantern is not the hero for you.


EDIT- Actually large portions the DCU in general may not be for you. While every character can deal with down to Earth subjects, the "big" stories are often going to have these "ridiculous" elements. God (all gods) is actually a pretty focal character in the DCU. You're supposed to look deeper than the surface, but if the surface is too unappealing, that may not work.

 

[brainchild81]

I don't think ridiculous powerups are good for anyone in the long term. Where's the drama when you've conquered death? That's why these things don't last long, right?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Blackest Night was the biggest story of 2009. In fact all of Geoff Johns run was so successful, that even the DC Relaunch didn't affect it. It's lasted longer than other stories. For a list of heroes who've beaten death:

Batman
Superman
Green Arrow
Hal Jordan
Kyle Rayner
Aquaman
Barry Allen
Wally West

etc etc etc. The list goes on. There's never any real danger in any superhero book. If they didn't beat the bad guy they wouldn't be heroes.