Justice League How would you feel about John Stewart amd Wally West instead of Hal and Barry?

[brainchild81]

they made a baby. WARHAWK. has hal done anything more ADULT than that since he's been w/Carol for decades?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Let's start with the fact that Hal eventually became the spirit of God's vengeance and redemption...and work backward from there.

Didn't Hal get chosen for Spectre because of the Parallax rather than Hal's own personal integrity and character?

 

[Sun_Down]

Let's start with the fact that Hal eventually became the spirit of God's vengeance and redemption...and work backward from there.

But does that actually say anything (good) about Hal's character? It just says that he was used in that way in a comic. Nothing about that makes Hal better than any other GL.

 

[The Guard]

Actually, yes, it does say something good about his character, as Hal, Green Lantern and The Spectre, if you read the comic stories. He has a sense of justice and service and an understanding of fragility and forgiveness and a depth of soul/spirit and hope for mankind and the universe itself that few others have been written/shown to have.

Though, I could have sworn you said "So no specifics why Hal is such a compelling character". Not "what's good about him"?

So your response to that is "It just says he was written well and conceived well in the source material", and "nothing about that makes Hal better than any other GL".

Except that in the source material, which is where pretty much any adaption comes from, and what matters when determining pre-existing "character" and portrayals of such, and in determining which are the most complex characters/interesting characters, etc...he's written better, and is generally portrayed as a more complex and interesting character than the others.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Let's start with the fact that Hal eventually became the spirit of God's vengeance and redemption...and work backward from there.

Wait, you're missing a fairly important event. I say we work backwards from Hal Jordan becoming attuned with all life and the joining himself with the manifestation of all life in every universe and conquering death, in its most powerful manifestation thus far, itself.

Then work backwards from there.

 

[DaveMoral]

they made a baby. WARHAWK. has hal done anything more ADULT than that since he's been w/Carol for decades?

So because John was written as having a child in a cartoon series he's more adult than Hal?

Main DC continuity has no Hawkgirl relationship, and JLU had to sacrifice a major component of Hawkgirl's backstory(part of what makes her who she is) in order to make that relationship happen in the first place. She and Hawkman are reincarnated lovers who search for each other in every era they are reborn in.

John Stewart, like every other Green Lantern, has had incredibly bad luck in love for the very same reason every other human GL has... the job consumes their lives.

 

[Sun_Down]

Actually, yes, it does say something good about his character, as Hal, Green Lantern and The Spectre, if you read the comic stories. He has a sense of justice and service and an understanding of fragility and forgiveness and a depth of soul/spirit and hope for mankind and the universe itself that few others have been written/shown to have.

Though, I could have sworn you said "So no specifics why Hal is such a compelling character". Not "what's good about him"?

So your response to that is "It just says he was written well and conceived well in the source material", and "nothing about that makes Hal better than any other GL".

Except that in the source material, which is where pretty much any adaption comes from, and what matters when determining pre-existing "character" and portrayals of such, and in determining which are the most complex characters/interesting characters, etc...he's written better, and is generally portrayed as a more complex and interesting character than the others.

I'm honestly not sure what it is you're trying to communicate, sorry. The run-on sentences and lack of punctuation make it really hard.

 

[Edguy]

Yay for Wally and John, I think the way they are portrayed in the animated series is a good example of a fun character dynamic.

And someone mentioned introducing Barry first, then Wall as Kid Flash.. drop it. All sidekicks are weird and stupid in the GA's eyes. Failures like Supergirl and Batman & Robin didn't exactly help.

 

[cleverusername8]

Yay for Wally and John, I think the way they are portrayed in the animated series is a good example of a fun character dynamic.

And someone mentioned introducing Barry first, then Wall as Kid Flash.. drop it. All sidekicks are weird and stupid in the GA's eyes. Failures like Supergirl and Batman & Robin didn't exactly help.

Plus Kid Flash doesn't have enough of a difference between big Flash to make the investment in his character worth it. That's why if they decide to make a teen titans movie in the same universe as JL they should use the cartoon's lineup as opposed to young justice's original team or the classic team. Those characters like KF, Aqualad, Miss Martian, amd Wonder Girl aren't different enough from the originals to sell them to the audience as their own team aside from their villains maybe.

 

[brainchild81]

Let's start with the fact that Hal eventually became the spirit of God's vengeance and redemption...and work backward from there.

Add that to the list of things Hal has ''going for him” that the GA will never care about

Wait, you're missing a fairly important event. I say we work backwards from Hal Jordan becoming attuned with all life and the joining himself with the manifestation of all life in every universe and conquering death, in its most powerful manifestation thus far, itself.

Then work backwards from there.

And that. None of these ridiculous things make Hal more compelling. I could bring up John becoming the 1st human guardian, but that would also be pointless. We're all gonna consider who we like to be more compelling.

So because John was written as having a child in a cartoon series he's more adult than Hal?

Main DC continuity has no Hawkgirl relationship, and JLU had to sacrifice a major component of Hawkgirl's backstory(part of what makes her who she is) in order to make that relationship happen in the first place. She and Hawkman are reincarnated lovers who search for each other in every era they are reborn in.

John Stewart, like every other Green Lantern, has had incredibly bad luck in love for the very same reason every other human GL has... the job consumes their lives.

Considering how awesome that part of her backstory isn't, I'd say it wasn't much of a sacrifice. It's about telling the best story, not just pleasing comicbook fans. They still managed to include that stuff later on anyways IIRC. My ''WARHAWK” response was against the false assumption that they just ''liked each other” on a kids show. That poster might wanna watch the show again too. Seems like more important stuff happened in that relationship than in Hal's decades-long relationship. I think it spilled into the Batman Beyond books too IIRC

Yay for Wally and John, I think the way they are portrayed in the animated series is a good example of a fun character dynamic.

And someone mentioned introducing Barry first, then Wall as Kid Flash.. drop it. All sidekicks are weird and stupid in the GA's eyes. Failures like Supergirl and Batman & Robin didn't exactly help.

Ditto

 

[Sun_Down]

Add that to the list of things Hal has ''going for him” that the GA will never care about And that. None of these ridiculous things make Hal more compelling. I could bring up John becoming the 1st human guardian, but that would also be pointless. We're all gonna consider who we like to be more compelling.

This. Saying, "He was chosen by writer X to be a part of (insert grandiose storyline)" means absolutely nothing. It doesn't make a character, who will for all intents and purposes be a new character to the GA, any "better" than any other.

 

[DaveMoral]

^You can't dismiss actual characteristics of a character on that premise dude. You asked what he has going for him and The Guard drew points, for you, from the source material. That's got little to do with what the GA likes or cares about. This is a conversation between fanboys.

Dismissing a legitimate aspect of a character's biography and personality from the source material on the grounds that the GA won't care amounts to you having no actual answer to that.

 

[brainchild81]

That stuff is not compelling @all tho. I don't see how anybody would care. That makes me care about Hal less, not more. It compels me to avoid his old books like the plague. ONLY a fanboy would find these compelling. These ideas eventually got nixed didn't they? Think about why. I doubt they're even gonna acknowledge that junk in the new 52. If that's what y'all considered Hal @his most ''compelling”, I'll pass. Y'all confusing ''compelling” w/''over the top, ridiculous & silly”

 

[Human Torch]

This debate is still raging!

Look,bottom line.Hal needs to come before John and Barry before Wally.

Anything else would be like Tim Drake as Robin first instead of Dick Grayson.There's a certain order that should be observed.

They are subs/replacements and shouldn't start a franchise!

 

[brainchild81]

That order has been disregarded b4 and the result was great and compelling

 

[The Guard]

^You can't dismiss actual characteristics of a character on that premise dude. You asked what he has going for him and The Guard drew points, for you, from the source material. That's got little to do with what the GA likes or cares about. This is a conversation between fanboys.

I was being mildly sarcastic, but Hal becoming The Spectre and the whole Parallax thing...these aren't neccessarily what makes him the most compelling Green Lantern...but they certainly don't hurt his case. My point was basically designed to say "they've done a lot of really complex, interesting things with Hal Jordan as a character".

This. Saying, "He was chosen by writer X to be a part of (insert grandiose storyline)" means absolutely nothing. It doesn't make a character, who will for all intents and purposes be a new character to the GA, any "better" than any other.

It kind of does mean something...because we aren't talking about a fresh, new character in context. We're talking about the existing character and the existing character's role in the existing Green Lantern/DC mythology. When you ask "What makes Hal Jordan interesting?", and you refer to the existing concept of Hal Jordan, this is all fair game in comparing the Lanterns.

That stuff is not compelling @all tho. I don't see how anybody would care. That makes me care about Hal less, not more. It compels me to avoid his old books like the plague. ONLY a fanboy would find these compelling. These ideas eventually got nixed didn't they? Think about why. I doubt they're even gonna acknowledge that junk in the new 52. If that's what y'all considered Hal @his most ''compelling”, I'll pass. Y'all confusing ''compelling” w/''ovr the top, ridiculous & silly”

I'm terribly sorry that you don't find a concept that you've obviously never read or experienced to be compelling. I don't really see the exploration of religious concepts, ideas about the soul, mortality, reincarnation, and our basic role in the universe to be "ridiculous or silly". To each his own, I guess. I guess all Hal Jordan's stories can't be as weighty as "liking someone".

If someone's going to point to the cartoon and call it "great" and "compelling"...there's just no point in arguing that much further. We obviously have different definitions and ideas about what compelling means.

 

[brainchild81]

Careful, now. Are you saying that stuff is compelling and JLU wasn't? I thought JLU's greatness was something we all agreed on. As I said b4, you might wanna watch the series again. It was more than 2people liking each other & if that's what you got from it you weren't paying enough attention. You can find a lot of it on Youtube. You still haven't shown how Hal's done anything of better value w/his relationship. JLU has critical accolades. Can the same be said for those ''compelling” storylines you brought up? I ask again, were these ideas scrapped eventually & if so, why do you think they were?

 

[Sun_Down]

^You can't dismiss actual characteristics of a character on that premise dude. You asked what he has going for him and The Guard drew points, for you, from the source material. That's got little to do with what the GA likes or cares about. This is a conversation between fanboys.

Dismissing a legitimate aspect of a character's biography and personality from the source material on the grounds that the GA won't care amounts to you having no actual answer to that.

Those are not characteristics, they're plots he was involved in. I've yet to hear any reason why Hal is inherently more interesting than John or any other GL.

There's no plot that they couldn't do with John or any other GL. And do you know why? Because they're not going to adapt any given story exactly as it appeared on the comic page. This has been true of comic book movies for like 15 years.

And it's all about what the GA cares about, because that's what's going to happen. They're making a movie for millions of people, not just us.

That stuff is not compelling @all tho. I don't see how anybody would care. That makes me care about Hal less, not more. It compels me to avoid his old books like the plague. ONLY a fanboy would find these compelling. These ideas eventually got nixed didn't they? Think about why. I doubt they're even gonna acknowledge that junk in the new 52. If that's what y'all considered Hal @his most ''compelling”, I'll pass. Y'all confusing ''compelling” w/''over the top, ridiculous & silly”

Truth in bold.

 

[shauner111]

I like John Stewart just as much as Hal. Sometimes i like him a little more than Hal, sometimes it's the other way around. Even if it's the unpopular choice.

But i think it's more respectful and more suitable to use Hal for a first time JL movie. I once said i wanted John in the team-up because they failed with Ryan Reynolds and because i like the character, but it's selfish. Whoever said "it's like using Tim Drake or Jason Todd as the first Robin over Dick Grayson" (i'm paraphrasing) is correct. It's the same thing.

Plus John can always get his own film down the road. And if it means Barry Allen over Wally West...im down with that.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

they're better off starting off with hal and barry if they ever plan on making films in the future. then you won't need to reboot the entire operation when the actors playing them get tired of the roles.

 

[Micromind]

They will go with Hal Jordan, as there are already enough characters who would be introduced for the first time as they had no solo movies leading up to JL, like Flash, WW and a new villain.

Getting Ryan Reynolds as Hal Jordan is advantageous as they need not waste any screen time to introduce the hero and in addition to that he is well known star in his own right, which saves the trouble of finding a suitable actor to do the part.

 

[Micromind]

They can always introduce John Stewart in sequels to JL of GL.

 

[Uncanny1]

I grew up on Wally west and loved the Stewart on the Justice League cartoon and now I'm being forced feed Hal Jordan and Barry Allen because Geoff Jones loves those characters.

I want to see John Stewart and Wally West in the Justice League movie too. Hal had his movie and most people did not like it. Let another GL like John Stewart have a try at it.

 

[Rowsdower!]

They should cast Jon Stewart as Guy Gardner.

 

[DaveMoral]

I want to see John Stewart and Wally West in the Justice League movie too. Hal had his movie and most people did not like it. Let another GL like John Stewart have a try at it.

What about the GL movie did people not like? Hal Jordan, or the entire concept? Most of critics seem to have picked on the very concept of Green Lantern, not on Hal Jordan specifically, but the very notion of the ring, green glowing constructs, etc. John Stewart doesn't change the most harped on aspects of Green Lantern.

It wasn't the character that didn't sell the movie, it was the concept. That's why people barely went out in the first place, and the negative reviews turned them further off from the notion.