Hulk vs Apocalypse

[Silicon Surfer]

Since I believe that it is against the rules to post links to other boards I PM'd you the link.

 

[Toby_Temple]

wow that was pretty good too so your saying apoc caint beat the hulk sometimes but instead every time. that doesent seem likey, whenever it mentions that apoc can increas his streangth above the hulks they refer to his base streangth, 100 tons.So how can you rais your streangth above someone who streangth changes constantly. I have one question, do you think with brute streangth alone apoc can pull a planet back togeather?and by the way I am not going off of titles here I know both these charicters inside and out.

No I'm not. Please improve on your reading comprehension. What I'm trying to show you and rodhulk is that just like Hulk, Apocalypse can increase his strength far beyond 100 ton range.

You're question is irrelevant. What you should ask yourself is this: Is brute strength enough to win a battle when prep time is given?

I also disagree that you know both characters inside and out.

 

[rodhulk]

????



Back at you. Comics labeled Hulk the strongest one there is just as they labeled Juggernaut as unstoppable. Read your comics again. What you stated above is your biased opinion.




Wrong again. I stated that Apocalypse can augment his strength beyong Hulk's class. You can check it again.



You mean you don't know. Again, the label strongest is just the same as the label unstoppable. Anyone who really knows almost every marvel character that Hulk is not absolutely the strongest one there is. Living Tribunal proves that fact.



No one is arguing about comic facts. What we are arguing is who would win in a fight between Apocalyse and Hulk if prep time is given. If we base this argument on you're mindset then Hulk would win against Galactus even with prep time just by looking at there track record.



Apocalypse turned Hulk into his lackey while Dr. Doom tried to kill/KO Hulk and failed. Comparing there track records with Hulk, it shows that Apocalypse is the better villain.



Yes I do have common sense and you clearly don't. We are not debating if Apocalypse could beat Hulk sometimes. Do I really have to repeat the topic several times for you?

Man, you're the reason I enjoy debating here on SHH. I so enjoy showing people the error in their ways. Here goes.... again....

Living Tribunal the strongest there is (and remember, you said it as a fact! I'm going to show you that you are WRONG which will become a fact, you being wrong)? Well, if we're going into the whole MU, then you about the LT being the strongest shows you're...... WRONG (again). THE ONE ABOVE ALL is the the strongest (no, not the celestial, the one the LT answers to). Or as some believe, the PRE-RETCON BEYONDER (though he never really had this power, so it's the TOAA). Regardless, it's not the LT.... and that is a fact!

The argument is can Apoc beat Hulk and I said sometimes, perhaps. So what's the meaning of your last sentence in your quote??????

What do you mean Apoc can augument his strength beyond Hulk's class? Do you mean his base level or his max level whatever that may be. I f you mean his max level, you're wrong. Apoc has never been said to be possible limitless in strength (if so, show me where. If you can't, my point is proven).

Hulk broke free of Apoc's control eventually. As for Dr. Doom, it was just one of the htings that can happen. Hulk beat him rather easily. Just because Hulk didn't beat Apoc easily in that one meeting doesn't mean he can't. Hulk has lost to Abomination yet has beaten the Abomination easily and quickly. Same with the Thing. Hulk has always had tough and long battles with the Thing until recently where he beat the Thing with one, yes, one hit. Broke a couple of Thing's ribs too. What happens in one match doesn't set the standard. For the record, Dr. Doom has a much better record than Apoc and is the better villain. If you don't believe me, start a thread in the 'Marvel Comics' board and start a thread where you say Apoc is a better villain than Dr. Doom and could beat Dr. Doom. They'll eat you alive over there if you say that.

As for Galactus, maybe Hulk would win but it would be some zany reason because really, he shouldn't. But regardless, Galactus has shown much greater power than Apoc and to the point where he should beat Hulk. Sorry, Apoc hasn't showed what Galactus has showed and he hasn't showed enough to beat the Hulk a majority of times even if he was written decent, though, he could win some, more than he would by the way he's been written thus far. But with that track record, it pretty much puts the icing on the cake that Hulk would beat Apoc.

Finally, as for the comics listing Juggs as unstoppable and Hulk as the strongest, sure Marvel say things that aren't always true. Fact is, we've seen Juggs stopped (by Hulk himself, might I add), but we haven't seen Hulk's max strength yet so we can still assume he might be limitless which means he would be the strongest. However, this probably wouldn't actually include the big cosmics and deities like TOAA and Living Tribunal who could just change the reality of their/Hulk's strength so that they are stronger than the Hulk or perhaps, they just might be stronger than the Hulk as they might be in a different reality or something from Hulk and the general MU. I just like to say out of all the general superheros/villains, Hulk is the strongest (which also may be what Marvel are referring to as for Hulk being the strongest).

And there you go, all your misinformed facts, faulty logic, and madness answered once again.

 

[rodhulk]

well I caint say anything to that. except that we are talking about a fight between the hulk and apoc not high evolutionary and the hulk. but I didnt know that can you give me the link so I can see it.

Hulk's strength was said to be compared to Galactus in one way or another by PAD himself a couple of years ago. So, the Apoc and High Evolutionary thing really doesn't matter. Here's why we can still assume Hulk is greater than Apoc:

Apoc may have a couple of decent feats, sure, but until he punches through time which Hulk did (which I believe most/all would say is a greater feat than what Apoc did to the High Evolutionary), until Apoc punches and takes punches that sends catastrophic shockwaves to other dimensions which Hulk did (same as punching through time if not even greater), and so many other things that Hulk did, it's clear that Hulk is still the stronger and the greater one, at least we can assume that.

 

[Toby_Temple]

Man, you're the reason I enjoy debating here on SHH. I so enjoy showing people the error in their ways. Here goes.... again....

You're the reason why the term "fanboy" is so negative this days.

Living Tribunal the strongest there is (and remember, you said it as a fact! I'm going to show you that you are WRONG which will become a fact, you being wrong)? Well, if we're going into the whole MU, then you about the LT being the strongest shows you're...... WRONG (again). THE ONE ABOVE ALL is the the strongest (no, not the celestial, the one the LT answers to). Or as some believe, the PRE-RETCON BEYONDER (though he never really had this power, so it's the TOAA). Regardless, it's not the LT.... and that is a fact!

Good. You fell for it! First horn:

Where in my post did I stated the LT is the strongest one there is? Stop putting words in my mouth. Don't tell me you failed to see my point when I mentioned LT. hmmm.....

My point is quite clear. Hulk cannot be the strongest one there is if someone else is stronger than him. And Living Tribunal is certainly stronger than Hulk.

That's the first horn of my post.

Second horn:

You finally admitted that Hulk is not the strongest one there is and claimed it as fact. Hahaha. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I do agree with you on that.

So easy, isn't it.

The argument is can Apoc beat Hulk and I said sometimes, perhaps. So what's the meaning of your last sentence in your quote??????

NO. THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT.

What do you mean Apoc can augument his strength beyond Hulk's class? Do you mean his base level or his max level whatever that may be. I f you mean his max level, you're wrong. Apoc has never been said to be possible limitless in strength (if so, show me where. If you can't, my point is proven).

Ah......remember marvel.com? Hellooo.......

Hulk broke free of Apoc's control eventually. As for Dr. Doom, it was just one of the htings that can happen. Hulk beat him rather easily. Just because Hulk didn't beat Apoc easily in that one meeting doesn't mean he can't. Hulk has lost to Abomination yet has beaten the Abomination easily and quickly. Same with the Thing. Hulk has always had tough and long battles with the Thing until recently where he beat the Thing with one, yes, one hit. Broke a couple of Thing's ribs too. What happens in one match doesn't set the standard. For the record, Dr. Doom has a much better record than Apoc and is the better villain. If you don't believe me, start a thread in the 'Marvel Comics' board and start a thread where you say Apoc is a better villain than Dr. Doom and could beat Dr. Doom. They'll eat you alive over there if you say that.

Hmmm. So this time you're saying track record does not prove anything?
Quite tempting. Maybe I would make a thread but not today.

As for Galactus, maybe Hulk would win but it would be some zany reason because really, he shouldn't. But regardless, Galactus has shown much greater power than Apoc and to the point where he should beat Hulk. Sorry, Apoc hasn't showed what Galactus has showed and he hasn't showed enough to beat the Hulk a majority of times even if he was written decent, though, he could win some, more than he would by the way he's been written thus far. But with that track record, it pretty much puts the icing on the cake that Hulk would beat Apoc.

Maybe Hulk would win against Galactus? What a fanboy.
Again, if we base it on track records then by that logic every villain will lose to any hero with good or better track records regardless of capabilities.

Finally, as for the comics listing Juggs as unstoppable and Hulk as the strongest, sure Marvel say things that aren't always true. Fact is, we've seen Juggs stopped (by Hulk himself, might I add), but we haven't seen Hulk's max strength yet so we can still assume he might be limitless which means he would be the strongest. However, this probably wouldn't actually include the big cosmics and deities like TOAA and Living Tribunal who could just change the reality of their/Hulk's strength so that they are stronger than the Hulk or perhaps, they just might be stronger than the Hulk as they might be in a different reality or something from Hulk and the general MU. I just like to say out of all the general superheros/villains, Hulk is the strongest (which also may be what Marvel are referring to as for Hulk being the strongest).

Hulk with celestial powers(thanks to Apocalypse) stopped a moving Juggernaut, not the original Hulk per se. Know your facts rodhulk. And don't forget, the 'strongest one there is' was beaten by a giant snake. That's another comic fact.

And there you go, all your misinformed facts, faulty logic, and madness answered once again.

And there you go, see how your arguments fail in comparison to mine. Try again rodhulk.

 

[wolf1023]

dude you come back at paragraphs of rodhulkd info with two sentences...are you even trying to continue this debate. Anyway I read the high eveolutionary fight and it was AWSOME I thought it was realy cool apoc kicked some arse, but I still think the hulk would beat him not all the time mind you but most of the time yes. am I biased yes maybe a little but if it was against anyone eles I would be on apoc side.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

dude you come back at paragraphs of rodhulkd info with two sentences...are you even trying to continue this debate. Anyway I read the high eveolutionary fight and it was AWSOME I thought it was realy cool apoc kicked some arse, but I still think the hulk would beat him not all the time mind you but most of the time yes. am I biased yes maybe a little but if it was against anyone eles I would be on apoc side.

I don't understand your conclusions. The Hulk was barely able to destroy the High Evolutionary's armor when he wasn't even fighting back. Apocalypse fought the High Evolutionary when he was using all his power and fought him to a standstill. And yet you think that the Hulk would win most of the time even after Apocalypse effortlessly defeated the Hulk in their one fight.

 

[wolf1023]

yep

 

[Toby_Temple]

^so that means you'll be in my ignore list for this thread. sorry.

 

[wolf1023]

whats with the insults I have my points he has his and what becaus I have my opinions you wish to ignore them, your twisted.whats worse is I like silocon surfers arguments I think he is a cool dude, I just dont agree with him is all if no one diagreed we wouldnt have these fun debats.

 

[rodhulk]

You're the reason why the term "fanboy" is so negative this days.



Good. You fell for it! First horn:

Where in my post did I stated the LT is the strongest one there is? Stop putting words in my mouth. Don't tell me you failed to see my point when I mentioned LT. hmmm.....

My point is quite clear. Hulk cannot be the strongest one there is if someone else is stronger than him. And Living Tribunal is certainly stronger than Hulk.

That's the first horn of my post.

Second horn:

You finally admitted that Hulk is not the strongest one there is and claimed it as fact. Hahaha. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I do agree with you on that.

So easy, isn't it.



NO. THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT.



Ah......remember marvel.com? Hellooo.......



Hmmm. So this time you're saying track record does not prove anything?
Quite tempting. Maybe I would make a thread but not today.



Maybe Hulk would win against Galactus? What a fanboy.
Again, if we base it on track records then by that logic every villain will lose to any hero with good or better track records regardless of capabilities.



Hulk with celestial powers(thanks to Apocalypse) stopped a moving Juggernaut, not the original Hulk per se. Know your facts rodhulk. And don't forget, the 'strongest one there is' was beaten by a giant snake. That's another comic fact.



And there you go, see how your arguments fail in comparison to mine. Try again rodhulk.

Are you for real?

Explain to me how I'm a fanboy? Because I said Hulk can beat Apoc???? Can you explain your insane reasoning! And when you can't, you lose!

And btw, with your reasoning on my being a Hulk fanboy, that would mean you're an Apoc fanboy! Now, isn't that embarrassing, Tobes! You lose again!

And how am I a fanboy by saying that if Hulk would beat Galactus, it would be by some zany reason (so, not his abilities, or shouldn't be)? To be a fanboy, one would say Hulk would beat Galactus because he has the abilities! You lose again!

Wow! Just wow! You did state the LT was the strongest but if you have a memory problem, I apologize if I offended you! t: You lose again!

I didn't say a track record doesn't prove anything, I said Galactus has much more power than Apoc that I believe he could take the Hulk. Galactus has more impressive feats than Apoc, btw. You lose again!

As for the Hulk being the strongest one there is (including all of Marvel), where did I say that? Answer, I didn't. You lose again, Tobsey!

The celestial powers only boosted Hulk's power level. He still had his own powerset and was able to get madder and stronger (yes, PAD said that). You lose again!

Did I say it was the original Hulk that stopped Juggs? Uh, no! You lose again!

Hulk beaten by a snake. Sure, no prob. But who has a better track record, Hulk or Apoc! Aha! The Hulk. You lose again!

You've got one or two great feats of Apoc. Hulk has a whole thread at another site of his great feats. You lose again!

Most to all comics fans would agree with me here, Hulk punching through time was a greater feat than Apoc beating the High Evolutionary. Has Apoc punched through time? Nope! You lose again!

I expected more form you, Toby! In fact, I doubt you own many comics and probably just get the info from the internet, hence why you have such a lack of understanding about the Hulk!

 

[rodhulk]

whats with the insults I have my points he has his and what becaus I have my opinions you wish to ignore them, your twisted.whats worse is I like silocon surfers arguments I think he is a cool dude, I just dont agree with him is all if no one diagreed we wouldnt have these fun debats.

Don't worry about it, wolf. This usually happens to people when they know they're outclassed, like Toby Temple!

And remember, Apocalypse has a couple of decent feats, but just look at Hulk's vast great feats and they highly outnumber Apocalypse's great feats which shows we can expect Hulk to be the better of the two and therefore, Hulk should beat Apocalypse. Most people (not just Hulk fans) would agree with this.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Don't worry about it, wolf. This usually happens to people when they know they're outclassed, like Toby Temple!

And remember, Apocalypse has a couple of decent feats, but just look at Hulk's vast great feats and they highly outnumber Apocalypse's great feats which shows we can expect Hulk to be the better of the two and therefore, Hulk should beat Apocalypse. Most people (not just Hulk fans) would agree with this.

The Hulk's feats are more numerous but then again he has had his own title for 40+ years as well as team appearances like Defenders. If you consider the good feats as a percentage of total appearances then Apocalypse has a much better record. If you count multi issue storylines as one appearance then Apocalypse probably has less than 10 appearances all told. That is not much opportunity to build up a huge feat list since they do have to tell a least a little story between battle scenes. The Hulk has never had a win or draw against anyone on the High Evolutionary's level. Even the Stranger isn't as powerful.

 

[ssj wolverine]

Any Hulk fan-boy that thinks that Hulk could beat GALACTUS needs to get their heads out of the Hulk's ass. Galactus wouldn't even waste his time giving Hulk an ass whipping. Galactus would probably laugh himself to death if Hulk challenged him. Apocalypse would waste Hulk too. A better challenge would be Hulk vs. Darkseid. I would give Hulk a slight edge.

 

[rodhulk]

The Hulk's feats are more numerous but then again he has had his own title for 40+ years as well as team appearances like Defenders. If you consider the good feats as a percentage of total appearances then Apocalypse has a much better record. If you count multi issue storylines as one appearance then Apocalypse probably has less than 10 appearances all told. That is not much opportunity to build up a huge feat list since they do have to tell a least a little story between battle scenes. The Hulk has never had a win or draw against anyone on the High Evolutionary's level. Even the Stranger isn't as powerful.

We don't know how powerful the Stranger is.

You can't say Hulk could never beat the High Evolutionary because alot of people who beat Hulk in one fight lost in the next. Plus, alot of people said Hulk would never beat Black Bolt and now it seems he has.

And we can only go with what we have and what we have is Hulk having greater feats and greater records than Apoc. This means Hulk beats Apocalypse.

 

[rodhulk]

Any Hulk fan-boy that thinks that Hulk could beat GALACTUS needs to get their heads out of the Hulk's ass. Galactus wouldn't even waste his time giving Hulk an ass whipping. Galactus would probably laugh himself to death if Hulk challenged him. Apocalypse would waste Hulk too. A better challenge would be Hulk vs. Darkseid. I would give Hulk a slight edge.

What? Darkseid a better challenge for the Hulk than Apoc? You're kidding me?

Darkseid is so over Apoc it isn't funny, especially if you go back to the pre-crisis days. And Apocalypse wasting Hulk? Funny, that hasn't happened yet (an no, when they had their confrontation, Apoc didn't waste the Hulk nor even beat him. Hulk told Apoc to let go and he did).

As for Hulk beating Galactus, who said that? I said if Hulk did, it would be some zany reason (just like some of those who have already beaten Galactus). Read clearly before you post.

 

[wolf1023]

well I read when hulk got choked out by apoc...he actualy joined apoc willingly to get the ghost out of his brain pan. I still got nothing on the high evolutionary but hey I need to read the fight first, I have been buying up all the hulk essetials over the years he just keeps geting stronger its awsome. the hulk says it himself when iron man hits him with a building " the hulk is stronger than he once was" back in the day a building falling on the hulk could hurt him but in the present black bolt the second most powerfull human couldnt stop him things change and as far a vs. goes I use the most current material.

 

[rodhulk]

Hulk told Apoc to let go and he did. It's hard to say what the final result would have been but Hulk may have won.

 

[Toby_Temple]

Are you for real?

Yes

Explain to me how I'm a fanboy? Because I said Hulk can beat Apoc???? Can you explain your insane reasoning! And when you can't, you lose!

Ah. No. Are you really that clueless?

And btw, with your reasoning on my being a Hulk fanboy, that would mean you're an Apoc fanboy! Now, isn't that embarrassing, Tobes! You lose again!

Did I state the reasons why you are a fanboy, fanboy?

And how am I a fanboy by saying that if Hulk would beat Galactus, it would be by some zany reason (so, not his abilities, or shouldn't be)? To be a fanboy, one would say Hulk would beat Galactus because he has the abilities! You lose again!

Wow! Just wow! You did state the LT was the strongest but if you have a memory problem, I apologize if I offended you! t: You lose again!

Where?

I didn't say a track record doesn't prove anything, I said Galactus has much more power than Apoc that I believe he could take the Hulk. Galactus has more impressive feats than Apoc, btw. You lose again!

You been using track record as bases for Hulk on winning dumbass. Stop lying to our faces!

As for the Hulk being the strongest one there is (including all of Marvel), where did I say that? Answer, I didn't. You lose again, Tobsey!

Yes you did fanboy. You even compared it with Juggernaut being unstoppable. You're lying again!

The celestial powers only boosted Hulk's power level. He still had his own powerset and was able to get madder and stronger (yes, PAD said that). You lose again!

FYI! Hulk's powers include his strength.

Did I say it was the original Hulk that stopped Juggs? Uh, no! You lose again!

Yes you did. By implying that he did stop Juggernaut with his own strength.

Hulk beaten by a snake. Sure, no prob. But who has a better track record, Hulk or Apoc! Aha! The Hulk. You lose again!

Ah.........don't forget....

I didn't say a track record doesn't prove anything, I said Galactus has much more power than Apoc that I believe he could take the Hulk. Galactus has more impressive feats than Apoc, btw. You lose again!

You honestly think you're even close to getting 1 point? hahaha

You've got one or two great feats of Apoc. Hulk has a whole thread at another site of his great feats. You lose again!

Did anyone made a thread for Apocalypse about his feats? My my. You are a stupid fanboy.

Most to all comics fans would agree with me here, Hulk punching through time was a greater feat than Apoc beating the High Evolutionary. Has Apoc punched through time? Nope! You lose again!

Argumentum ad populum bears no weight in any debate, fanboy.

I expected more form you, Toby! In fact, I doubt you own many comics and probably just get the info from the internet, hence why you have such a lack of understanding about the Hulk!

Actually, you overestimate Hulk just like any fanboy that exists. With your basis, you are not winning any arguments not even this one. Try again in the next 50 years rodhulk. I'm too much for you.

 

[Toby_Temple]

double post

 

[Toby_Temple]

Originally Posted by wolf1023
whats with the insults I have my points he has his and what becaus I have my opinions you wish to ignore them, your twisted.whats worse is I like silocon surfers arguments I think he is a cool dude, I just dont agree with him is all if no one diagreed we wouldnt have these fun debats.

Don't worry about it, wolf. This usually happens to people when they know they're outclassed, like Toby Temple!

And remember, Apocalypse has a couple of decent feats, but just look at Hulk's vast great feats and they highly outnumber Apocalypse's great feats which shows we can expect Hulk to be the better of the two and therefore, Hulk should beat Apocalypse. Most people (not just Hulk fans) would agree with this.

Birds of a feather makes a good feather duster.

 

[Toby_Temple]

We don't know how powerful the Stranger is.

You can't say Hulk could never beat the High Evolutionary because alot of people who beat Hulk in one fight lost in the next. Plus, alot of people said Hulk would never beat Black Bolt and now it seems he has.

And we can only go with what we have and what we have is Hulk having greater feats and greater records than Apoc. This means Hulk beats Apocalypse.

You mean you don't know. Again, don't speak in behalf of all of us. There are already comics and info that shows the Stranger's power. Anyone who reads them can make an assessment.

And about Hulk being able to beat High Evo, it happend once when the High Evolutionary committed suicide by allowing Hulk to crush him. Yet after that, even at goo state, he regenerated back. Maybe you could add that as a 'great' feat for Hulk. LOL

Greater records? You mean more showings. Its not a fair comparison when the other has less showings. Silicon Surfer is right on the money when he stated that Apocalypse has a better record by percentage basis.

 

[Toby_Temple]

Let me remind the pro-hulks again. The debate is now about who would win between Hulk and Apocalypse if prep time is given. We're not debating if Hulk may win or Apocalypse may win. Its who would win and why.

This mean that both parties are given time to prepare. They can use any resources they have and any info they have.

Given this scenario, Apocalypse clearly has the mind and intelligence and has every important detail about the Hulk. He also has the resources.

As for the Hulk, I don't see him do anything other than search for Apocalypse then jump on him.

Powerwise, we all know that Hulk and Apocalypse are at 100 ton class in strength. Both are also extremely resistant to injury. Both could also increase their strength.

But the strongest Hulk incarnation is the savage Hulk and I think all those infavor of Hulk thinks that its the savage Hulk who will be fighting. You can suggest other incarnations though so I could provide other arguments as well.

We all know that the savage Hulk is nowhere in par with Apocalypse's intelligence. Apocalyse all has more powers than Hulk and he can also augment them to unknown levels.

Those are my arguments on why Apocalypse would win if prep time is given. I already stated in the earlier posts that Hulk would win if there was no prep time. There was almost no argument there until prep time was suggested. Since then before the resurrection of this thread, the arguments were with prep time.

 

[ArmyDragon92A]

Apocalypse defeated by the hulk? Are you serious? lol

 

[ArmyDragon92A]

yep

You're impudent. Ignorant. And borderline insane.