Hulk's WMD Origin

[Garzo]

I know the new film will not be an origin film but I really hope it tweaks the Hulk's origin at least in a flashback sequence. I hated the way Banner became the Hulk in the first film, I hated the fact that his father was made part of the origin and I could not care less if it came from a Peter David comic book. I think the comic book origin of the Hulk was perfect. It can be modernized, but it's more relevant now than ever before. OK, it doesn't necessarily have to be a bomb out in the desert, but the fact that Banner had designed this bomb, this WMD for the government, and became a victim of it himself, was just cool and ironic. By creating a weapon of mass destruction, he was cursed into becoming a weapon of mass destruction.

The first film tried to make a point about child abuse or something which in the end was pretty crappy and stripped Banner of any responsibility for becoming the creature that he became.

I hope the new film won't be connected in any way to the first film and goes with a new origin, even if it's in flashback or dialogue.

It's such a great and profound allegory -- it's not the WMD that's the monster, but the maker of the WMD -- and when he transforms, this brilliant and gifted man loses all of his education and culture and becomes a brainless brute hellbent on destruction.

It's great pulp but also a commentary on our time and ourselves.

 

[Limey Git]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I've been saying this for years.

The biggest flaw in the first film (among many) for me was the fact that they completely and utterly missed the whole point of the character by making Banner a victim. It'd be like making a Spider-Man film with Uncle Ben alive and well. The Hulk is Banner's punishment for that one act of horrific passive agression.

Oh, and I don't know if you've read the Peter David stuff, but the first film also completely bastardized that story, too. Rather than being some mad lunatic scientist, Brian Banner was a chilling, sadistic domestic abuser who murdered his wife in front of his young son on the day that she finally found the courage to escape the terror of his violence. His subsequent death at the hands of his son days before the first gamma bomb is still one of the most shocking and moving moments of the character's history, in my opoinion.

 

[Garzo]

Actually I never have read the Peter David run but just how his story was used as the basis of the film's script. Yes, it sounds like they bastardized it indeed by making the father all things -- his wife's murderer, loony scientist responsible for the mutation of his poor son, AND the Absorbing Man.

While I'm sure the story was good (I apprecitate David's literary work, being a big fan of his stuff on Aquaman back in the day), it certainly did not have to be part of the origin of the film. I remember watching it in the theater, the first and last time I've actually seen the film, and just scratching my head thinking what the hell is this? The Hulk was genetically altered using DNA from tropical frogs and gila monsters!?

Having said that, I'm also a big fan of Ang Lee's work in general and I certainly did not hate The Hulk. I was disappointed with many aspects of the story -- the origin and the the ending of the film -- what a mess that was. But there were some brilliant shots in it too. The desert scenes were fantastic -- just seeing the Hulk running through the desert tossing tanks around was awsome. And the plane ride was very cool. I liked the look of the Hulk too and don't think he should be made more monstrous, as some suggest.

 

[November Rain]

Does looking back really have an effect on the potential future story?

the base has been done, why ask for them to make their lives any harder than it should be.

 

[patrickbateman]

Who know they could make Rick Jones this daredevil but annoying green peace guy that drives out to a bomb testing ground in New Mexico. As luck would have it, the gamma bomb designed by Dr. Bruce Banner is being tested over there. Dr. Banner pushes Rick into a protective trench, saving his life but absorbing the gamma rays that first transforms him into the Hulk. A narrative from rick’s point of view woud be great he’d sort of serve as a viewpoint for the audience kinda like wolverine from the first x-men movie caught in the middle.Rick's guilt over the incident (and lack of any other place to go and fit in) leads him to stay close to Dr. Banner and his alter-ego, spending some time as the Hulk's sidekick.

 

[Limey Git]

Who know they could make Rick Jones this daredevil but annoying green peace guy that drives out to a bomb testing ground in New Mexico.

Actually, I had the same idea, but with Betty as the head of this particular branch of the group, acting as mentor of sorts to an over-enthusiastic Rick, who breaks into the base in an attempt to show initiative. The idea'd be that the group wanted her there to score political points against her estranged father but she's there personally as an act of rebellion against an absent father or whatever, setting up some conflict between them from the off. I always thought it would be a nice touch if she and Bruce were at loggerheads at the beginning, Betty seeing him as a monster before the accident and once that becomes literal, his humanity finally begins to shine through. Then you could also maybe have the element of Betty and Ross dead-set against each other despite their love. Or something.

I don't know, that's probably crap. The first film, cartoon and all the occasional revamps had her as a scientist, and while that's better than her just hanging around on a military base following Ross about, I always liked the fact that Betty wasn't a super-genius but a regular person caught up in the wake of chaos.

Oh, and if you went that way, you'd have to make the whole project some kind of rumoured, black-ops deal, which could a) explain why Jones would break in and drive out there in the first place, and b) give a little bit of credibility to the idea of the government conducting open-air weapons-testing on its soil, which is the biggest thing holding them back from making the origin as-is.

 

[SpaghettiHULK]

Does looking back really have an effect on the potential future story?

the base has been done, why ask for them to make their lives any harder than it should be.

I agree. They just said that the origins are telled. I think that the movie will tells the story of Bruce after his first period as The Hulk... but basing on the first movie events. A "flashback" that introduces a new character and all a new pack of origins, could be clumsy, IMHO.

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

The origin should be apart of the opening credits at the very least.

 

[Dangerous]

Saving Rick Jones from the Gamma bomb is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.
If it ain't broke don fix it.
Dumbass scriptwriters...

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

This is the only way the origin should be

The whole genetic, dna a munipulation thing just doesn't work.

 

[Spidey]

This is the only way the origin should be

The whole genetic, dna a munipulation thing just doesn't work.

I still haven't heard an explanation as to why the classic origin was not suitable for the film.

 

[Dangerous]

There is no explanation because it would be perfect for TIH.

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

I still haven't heard an explanation as to why the classic origin was not suitable for the film.

It was because Ang wanted to modernize the origin by making it more inline with modern science and sense we aren't in a cold war anymore....


I still think the Gamma Bomb origin would work if they use the terrorist aspect like Bruce being called in to disarm a gamma bomb built from some of his designs.

 

[Dangerous]

They should just keep the original origin.
The testing of a bomb designed by Dr Banner being carried out in the desert, then Banner getting blasted after having to save teenager Rick Jones who wanders onto the test site after being dared by his friends.

Simple.

If anything needs to be changed it would be to change the bomb from a gamma bomb to some type of radiation based counter terrorist bomb.

I hope Penn looks at these boards, but then the script will be done now..

 

[SpaghettiHULK]

so, why the spider in "Spider-Man" is not "radioactive" but "genetically altered"... and, then, Peter has natural web splitters instead of artificial ones?
These characters are from 60's... c'mon, they need an unpgrade. The origin of the Hulk in Ang Lee's movie were perfectly scientific and realistic. Ok, Bruce saves Harper instead of Rick Jones... so Rick there isn't in the movie. But all was in the "line" of the character IMHO. I really don't need a gamma-bomb-designed-against-the-commies in 2003 or 2008.

 

[November Rain]

in all honesty, there is no way in this modern day that a random kid would wander onto a nuclear testing field.

getting onto government or weapons research area is virtually impossible.

there are more plot hole in re-doing it than keeping the old one.

 

[Dangerous]

so, why the spider in "Spider-Man" is not "radioactive" but "genetically altered"... and, then, Peter has natural web splitters instead of artificial ones?
These characters are from 60's... c'mon, they need an unpgrade. The origin of the Hulk in Ang Lee's movie were perfectly scientific and realistic. Ok, Bruce saves Harper instead of Rick Jones... so Rick there isn't in the movie. But all was in the "line" of the character IMHO. I really don't need a gamma-bomb-designed-against-the-commies in 2003 or 2008.

Did you even read my last post?
Obviously not.

It don't need to be against the commies, but it does need to be a bomb.
A bomb developed in relation to current warfare would fit.
Ang Lee's origin was a load of crap.

The origin in TIH needs to be exactly the same as in the comics including Rick Jones. If anything has to be changed, make the bomb a different type, or the reasons for which it was developed different to reflect the current state of affairs in the middle east etc.

 

[SpaghettiHULK]

Did you even read my last post?
Obviously not.

It don't need to be against the commies, but it does need to be a bomb.
A bomb developed in relation to current warfare would fit.
Ang Lee's origin was a load of crap.

The origin in TIH needs to be exactly the same as in the comics including Rick Jones. If anything has to be changed, make the bomb a different type, or the reasons for which it was developed different to reflect the current state of affairs in the middle east etc.

But, there aren't "origin" in TIH, this is the point!
And, anyway, I think the idea of the "bomb" is a little puny at present day... it works in '62.
Bruce Banner is a researcher... 45 years ago the idea of a researcher/bomb maker for government was close to the idea of a sort of national hero. But not today. The line of "nano-meds/unconditional aid" works much better, IMHO, for the actual fealing of a heroic researcher.

 

[Dangerous]

But, there aren't "origin" in TIH, this is the point!
And, anyway, I think the idea of the "bomb" is a little puny at present day... it works in '62.
Bruce Banner is a researcher... 45 years ago the idea of a researcher/bomb maker for government was close to the idea of a sort of national hero. But not today. The line of "nano-meds/unconditional aid" works much better, IMHO, for the actual fealing of a heroic researcher.

Well, it would appear most fans, myself included think the original bomb origin is the way to go.
It worked in 1962 and it would work in 2007 if you tweak it a little in the areas I have previously highlighted. Manny fans, myself included think the whole nano meds crap was lame.
Imo deviating from the source is always the wrong thing to do, especially in a comic book characters origin.

While TIH will not be an origin movie it is highly likely that Hulks origin will be recapped.
This will certainly be the case if Rick Jones is to be introduced as the fans expect/want since he is crucially tied in w/ the Hulk's origin and this is how their relationship was forged.

 

[Garzo]

Like I said in my first post, the original origin for me is cool because Bruce's transformation into the Hulk is a curse -- it's the price he paid for creating a terrible weapon. As far as Rick Jones, I'm not that much for historical detail. Don't need him -- excess baggage in my opinion. For me it's all about the Hulk being a living force of destruction AND a curse upon a scientist who dared to create a terrible weapon of mass destruction. It's so simple.

I can understand not wanting to go back so soon and redoing the origin, but it really sounds like this film is not a sequel anyway.

 

[SpaghettiHULK]

but this is a vision that you have now, in 2007. In '62 building a bomb to defende the nation from the "Reds", wasn't that kind of fault.

 

[Savage]

Hulk had a pretty lame origin in the tv series and no-one seems to have a problem with that (no to mention he transformed while changing a TIRE but I digress, the movie version's first transformation was even lamer and more random). My point is hat he origin really doesn't matter too much when it comes to Hulk, as time has shown. As long as Hulk is still Hulk. I understand the significance of the original origin but it really is more work than it should be to bring it to the big screen.

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

Hulk had a pretty lame origin in the tv series and no-one seems to have a problem with that

It was a pretty lame version of the Hulk.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

It was a pretty lame version of the Hulk.

I dare you to tell that to Lou Ferrigno.

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

I dare you to tell that to Lou Ferrigno.

He's a Sherrif now, he can't touch me!