HYDRA in the Film Universe

[The Major]

That sounds good to me. I'd even like it more if it was Baron Zemo.

See one of my favorite aspects about the Red Skull is that for most of his appearance he lived in the cloned body of Steve Rogers. I'd like for the Red Skull to die during WWII and maybe have the Masters of Evil trying to get their hands on the Cosmic Cube (I'd say that's a pretty big reason to bring together The Avengers). This is something that they could not only use to bring back The Red Skull better than ever (using Steve Rogers' DNA) but it's a threat big enough for a god like Thor to get involved.

Just my idea though. I think the Masters of Evil being lead by these big heads would be great. Baron Von Strucker, Baron Zemo, The Red Skull, The Leader, and maybe Loki and the Mandarin. Not necessarily all physical threats but they're a group of the most dangerous minds on the planet. Plus you just know a guy like The Red Skull will want to lead and the rest of the group will resent him. Their own hubris would be their downfall and the cosmic cube certainly would not be helping since it warps your head anyway.

Actually the cube's a good way to keep Loki on a short leash now that I think about it. Not to mention bringing guys like Abomination and a new Iron Monger into the mix. Really make it a meeting of minds that S.H.I.E.L.D. can't handle.

Sound cluttered? Hell yeah. I'm just throwing thoughts out there.

That'd work well for an Avengers movie. If they don't do that right off the bat they could in a sequel or a trilogy like IM is doing with Mandarin once all the villains are set up in the solo hero films.

I can see RS dying in Cap's first film if they were doing something like that. They could have Steve killing him in the finale during a WW II flashback, if it takes place in the present. RS would definitely make sense showing up in a Cap film before Avengers. The audience will know his history and connection to Steve with that. I've always liked the idea of him using a Roger's clone as a body. That way he's much more physically dangerous.

 

[FaT_tONle]

As good as Savage's lineup is... I don't know if it would bode well taking villains 1,2,3,4 from the solos and pairing them for the Avengers movie... there is too much setup required... which is why I would have preferred a few more sequels before Avengers... it could still work. Ultron/Kang/Thunderbolts shouldn't be in the first film anyway. Zemo is a must... but which one to use? I say stick the first Zemo as a side villain in the Cap movie from WW2... make his son Helmut the villain for Avengers. Loki is a must since he was the first threat to the Avengers and a logical explanation for Thor's involvement... but guys like the Leader and Madarin... I ain't so sure Avengers would fit the bill. Though if its just Strucker and Zemo and maybe the return of the Red Skull it would just feel like Captain America 2 wouldn't it? That said you need a big time villain in there... if they can somehow intertwine Mandarin and the Leader in there it would definitely fell like a more global threat. They'd need to expand that villain roster without using the more "lame" members we see in the Masters of Evil. I'd like to see all those villains like Savage pointed out... but among Red Skull, the Leader, Mandarin, Loki, HYDRA, Zemo, Strucker... some of those guys are going to have to bite the dust or else it would never work. Maybe just using the villains geared toward Captain America (like the three mentioned above) is your best bet... and Loki wouldn't even be necessary if they could bring in Thor in another way.

 

[The Major]

Tonie:

Of all the villains to die Strucker seems the most likely.

Helmut or RS could take over Hydra in his absence.

The original Baron Zemo would fit more with WW II and possibly a decade after that but then he outlives his usefulness IMO. Helmut can takes the name once he's gone. He's a much better villain for the current era anyway. They could even start a Thunderbolts franchise on him.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I didn't mean which villains to kill off... I don't think there is room for Strucker in the Cap solo anyways so he shouldn't even show up let alone die in THAT movie... what I meant by bite the dust was not all of those villains will appear in Avengers... I wasn't saying I think some of those villains will die, but which villains I'd take out from the film... I'd have to take out Mandarin and the Leader from that list. There is just no room. Strucker and Helmut would probably be my main villains... center it around the cosmic cube or Red Skull resurrection. I don't know how Loki would fit in there but they could easily find a way to do it. I just see it as... we'll probably get a movie featuring Mandarin (IM2), if they make a Hulk sequel the Leader would most likely be the villain... so just based on screen time I think Helmut Zemo and Strucker deserve to be the standouts for the Avengers movie... as for Red Skull... I'd give him a role similar to Voldermort's in the early Potter films where they are trying to resurrect him but ultimately do not succeed. I don't think its wise to use him as the featured villain again if he is already in the Cap movie a few months earlier. That's just how I'd narrow down the villain list.

 

[Savage]

Trying to slim things down, keeping the Masters of Evil down to Zemo (original), Strucker, and The Red Skull would be great. Abomination and a new guy in new Iron Monger armor would work well as the muscle of the group and Loki could just be there because either a)He wants to start trouble or b)whoever has the cosmic cube holds the power and if the Avengers have a god then the Masters of Evil would only think it fair that they have one of their own.

Leader and Mandarin I'll admit I can do without since they usually work alone anyway but I can see them appearing in some capacity like a TV screen or almost sub-bosses for the Avengers to take out in various countries.

...Yeah, I just realized I'm starting to think of the Marvel: Ultimate Alliance game. I still think it can work though.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Trying to slim things down, keeping the Masters of Evil down to Zemo (original), Strucker, and The Red Skull would be great. Abomination and a new guy in new Iron Monger armor would work well as the muscle of the group and Loki could just be there because either a)He wants to start trouble or b)whoever has the cosmic cube holds the power and if the Avengers have a god then the Masters of Evil would only think it fair that they have one of their own.

Leader and Mandarin I'll admit I can do without since they usually work alone anyway but I can see them appearing in some capacity like a TV screen or almost sub-bosses for the Avengers to take out in various countries.

...Yeah, I just realized I'm starting to think of the Marvel: Ultimate Alliance game. I still think it can work though.

I agree... but with these extra guys you are adding... return of Abomination... new Iron Monger... you are trying to match the Avengers mano amano or whatever they say. You don't need villains 1,2,3,4,5,6 to match opposite of whatever the Avengers lineup is (which we know what will be of course)... I like it when the villains are overmatched in terms of man power... but whatever villains there are are just so cunning that they can can handle an Iron Man and a Hulk and an Ant-Man with whatever they got. HYDRA will already have a bunch of henchmen anyways. All you need is the mastermind... Loki/Skull/Strucker take your pick... and the general/soldier... Zemo. That will be enough of a threat IMO. For muscle just go with regular HYDRA agents which there are plenty of. I don't need to see Abomination again or a Crimson Dynamo type villain because that just eats screen time.

 

[NoirMan82]

I think HYDRA can be adapted easily. I'd give them green British SAS-like uniforms (the ones with the creepy goggle) and utility harnesses that form a crude H on their chest. Done, done, and done.

 

[Savage]

I agree... but with these extra guys you are adding... return of Abomination... new Iron Monger... you are trying to match the Avengers mano amano or whatever they say. You don't need villains 1,2,3,4,5,6 to match opposite of whatever the Avengers lineup is (which we know what will be of course)... I like it when the villains are overmatched in terms of man power... but whatever villains there are are just so cunning that they can can handle an Iron Man and a Hulk and an Ant-Man with whatever they got. HYDRA will already have a bunch of henchmen anyways. All you need is the mastermind... Loki/Skull/Strucker take your pick... and the general/soldier... Zemo. That will be enough of a threat IMO. For muscle just go with regular HYDRA agents which there are plenty of. I don't need to see Abomination again or a Crimson Dynamo type villain because that just eats screen time.

I get you now. I just think the Masters of Evil are supposed to be the anti-thesis of the Avengers. A group of the best villains in the world to combat the best heroes in the world. Id it's just a team up of 2 or 3 villains and then an army then it doesn't exactly feel like one team vs. another. Not to me anyway. I think Zemo and Strucker+Hydra are enough on their own but throw in Loki, Leader and Mandarin (forget Abomination and Iron Monger as they're not exactly great minds) and then you really have yourself a team.

 

[The Major]

Tonie:

Hydra has access to advanced technology which could be used to overpower the Avengers besides expendable troops. They should be making stuff that would be equal or better then Tony Stark technology.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Yeah that's basically my point ^^^. Its just that a lot of people feel the need to stack the villains up with a Masters of Evil team that is comparable to the Avengers, which just turns things into a one on one/battle royale camp fest. Plus your budget basically doubles because you'd have to return villain actors from the solo movies so its basically the casts budget right now x2. As much as I want to see Leader and Mandarin over other villains (to face off against Hulk/Iron Man respectively) there simply will be too many side plots going with all of that stuff in an Avengers film. HYDRA, Zemo, Von Strucker. Loki the one side plot if it is absolutely needed. End of story. People forget that the movie already has to deal with Cap's revival (an assumption but a safe one to say the least)... the actual formation of the Avengers... and people also forget that the Hulk may be part of the villain's plot in that Hulk could easily turn on the team at some point like we see in the comics. That's almost half the movie right there. Having small villains keeps things tightly under wraps until the epic climax of the movie.

 

[Chris B]

I don't see a problem with translating HYDRA to a live-action film. Should appear in a solo Nick Fury movie or a Captain America sequel.

But I've never been a fan of MODOK. When it comes to villains for a third Iron Man movie, I would say go with Count Nefaria and Madame Masque. With guys like Whiplash, Blizzard, and Firebrand as side villains.

 

[Savage]

Yeah that's basically my point ^^^. Its just that a lot of people feel the need to stack the villains up with a Masters of Evil team that is comparable to the Avengers, which just turns things into a one on one/battle royale camp fest. Plus your budget basically doubles because you'd have to return villain actors from the solo movies so its basically the casts budget right now x2. As much as I want to see Leader and Mandarin over other villains (to face off against Hulk/Iron Man respectively) there simply will be too many side plots going with all of that stuff in an Avengers film. HYDRA, Zemo, Von Strucker. Loki the one side plot if it is absolutely needed. End of story. People forget that the movie already has to deal with Cap's revival (an assumption but a safe one to say the least)... the actual formation of the Avengers... and people also forget that the Hulk may be part of the villain's plot in that Hulk could easily turn on the team at some point like we see in the comics. That's almost half the movie right there. Having small villains keeps things tightly under wraps until the epic climax of the movie.

I see and I agree. It would probably be best to keep the threat down to 1-3 villains instead of using the Masters of Evil. If anything save the Masters of Evil for a sequel. For now I think that Hydra and the cosmic cube would be enough of a threat. Maybe Zemo or Kang thrown into the mix since I'm sure Red Skull and Loki will have already appeared in Captain America and Thor.

 

[FaT_tONle]

How will you tackle the Cube's origin? I don't want them to go Transformers again... maybe some carry over from the Cap film where it is built by the Skull and his minions and maybe lost at the end of the film? Though that seems to be too far in the past for that kind of technology to be available. I guess I could live with yet another alien artifact. I don't know.

 

[Savage]

I think an alien artifact works. Something mysterious that even Thor and the gods fear and respect. I just can't see it as something being man made. That just does not work for me.

 

[FaT_tONle]

So are we basically getting Transformers comic book style with a big Cube chase throughout? Plots sound too similar. Just saying they should probably mix it up.

 

[Savage]

You know, that is very true. Damn. Well they can't just use global domination, can they?

 

[FaT_tONle]

You know, that is very true. Damn. Well they can't just use global domination, can they?

I even loved the Transformer soundtrack... would've been perfect for Avengers... Maybe Michael Bay should direct as well... all kidding aside I just can't see them going that direction. Either that or seriously revamp the cosmic cube concept.

 

[The Major]

So are we basically getting Transformers comic book style with a big Cube chase throughout? Plots sound too similar. Just saying they should probably mix it up.

I agree.

However, just because the plot is similar to TF doesn't mean it would be awful.

It just needed to be executed better. And keep Michael Bay away from it at all costs.

If they use the Cube the villains should have it at the beginning with the heroes having to get destroy/get rid of it to "even the odds". That would change it from TF.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Yeah I agree. I say have HYDRA recover the Cube at the start. They use the cube to manipulate world leaders into going to war with each other... they infiltrate the SHIELD and manipulate the Hulk to take out the Avengers... etc.

 

[The Major]

FT:

That would be great.

 

[Savage]

Yeah, I actually like that a lot. Seems like a big enough threat to make SHIELD nervous.

 

[GhostPoet]

I only want Hydra if they include Spider-Woman in the mix

 

[The Major]

Hydra would be enough of a headache to set up on screen already.

Bringing in Spider-Woman would be to soon.

They could always give her a solo film after Hydra has been introduced properly.

 

[Savage]

I agree. A cameo would be cool though.

 

[Hypestyle]

they don't "have" to have the bright green outfits, especially involving undercover agents.. could easily be made into generic paramilitary uniforms.. ahem, green, even..

Hydra could easily be a multinational terrorist operation, spinning out of the remnants of the Nazi regime of WWII Germany...