I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[Sardaukar]

Yes, folks, the great Khan said words like those in that subliminal Trek sequel. Khan was a man of great power and intelligence, yet he was wounded and wanted revenge...what a great character he was; I dare say he was the best villain Star Trek ever knew.

Doom could be like that. The backstory of the Master's beloved Latveria could effectively be incorporated into this film, even if the only time we actually see that fair country is at the very end of the movie!

1. In only a few (but gripping) moments throughout the film, Doom is disturbed and vulnerable (and we all know that Doom hates being vulnerable-it only adds to his rage and determination). He is continually plagued by nightmares and visions of a moment from when he was a child, a moment when his entire family was executed before his eyes. He feels ashamed that he, the rightful heir of Latveria, fled in fear while a usurper stole the throne.

Doom is also angry. You see, the usurper (let's respect canon and call him Vladimir) was actually backed and given weapons by the United States and other Western nations. But now Vladimir rules Latveria under an iron fist worse than that of the Von Doom's, but of course Vladimir is still an ally of the West as they continually overlook his crimes against humanity for political/economical reasons (just like China's control of Tibet).

This enrages Doom...and gives him enough of an excuse to really hate the world. That hate serves as proper motivation for him to avenge himself and his dead loved ones upon all the world.

I'd like to see a scene where Sue tries to understand why Victor is so angry and he explains to her his family's tragedy. Hell, if they really want Sue to connect intimately with Victor and make us understand the guy, that's a fine moment to do it in! Then, to back that up, maybe Doom's claim to the Latverian throne could be quickly alluded to by a fast news clip or something.

2. Skip to the climax of the film:

The FF defeat Doom and his charred corpse is laying before them. But, guess what, when the authorities arrive to examine the body, they discover that it's a robot (or a dummy, whatever suits your taste)! Doom has escaped; he is still out there somewhere...

3. Skip to the very end of the film:

6 months later...

Sitting on this throne, King Vladimir is cowering in mortal terror. An invincible enemy has broken through his palace's defenses. A doorway blasts open. The king watches in horror as a dark, cloaked figure approaches him.

You know the rest...

No what kind of setup is that for a sequel?

 

[snazzy J]

I love most of what you said, but I'm not sure about your ending. The rest of it, though, wow. Did you steal that from me or something because I posted something similar, though less in-depth before. You just fleshed it out into exactly what I was trying to say. I guess great minds do think alike.

 

[darth_coolius]

yeah that was pretty cool

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Great job Sardaukar, great job indeed
That Doom is way better than the one i read in the Mark Frost´s script

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Fantastic concept!

 

[ritually shorn]

that is definately what they need to do in this film. Unfortunately the people invovled with it at this point do not have enough talent to pull it off. Oh well, another sub par movie for marvel coming up.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Give Victor an armor instead of organic skin (for us to have a great Doom rendition), and your idea, Sardaukar, could be easily incorporated in the Frost's script. Easily.

Doesn't Fox force these writers to read comic books before writing their script ? Why didn't Frost read Doom comics ? And if he did, why did he respect the FF and NOT Doom ?? Was it for the sake of messing with us ??? For insulting 40 years of comic book history ??

Fox and Arad most definitely have a vendetta against us Doom fans, no doubt about it.

 

[Sardaukar]

Thanks for the kind comments, folks.

I'm definitely no writer. It's just that people like us have read so many great FF stories by so many great writers that it becomes easy for us to imagine the possibilities...

BTW, in my plot the purpose of the FF's mission would be to repair/build some research satellite surrounding the earth. Doom would go with them to install his own "secret weapon" (which he would be able to get away with since he and Reed own the damn company doing it).

The FF are bombarded by cosmic rays, so Reed doesn't have time to find out Doom's plans. In the accident, Doom becomes burned and blames Reed for it (for whatever reason). I have this cool vision of a scene where Reed goes to the hospital to visit Victor who's wrapped up in bandages all over his face and body. Reed tries to talk to him, but all Doom does is stare at him-all you can see are Doom's eyes but they're so filled with hate that it's truly scary.

6 or so months later, Doom uses the weapon to threaten the UN into getting rid of Vladimir and giving financial/food aid to Latveria.

The UN refuses to give in to his terrorism and the FF are sent in.

I dunno, maybe the plot sounds like something from Austin Powers, but so sue me.

 

[snazzy J]

Thanks for the kind comments, folks.

I'm definitely no writer. It's just that people like us have read so many great FF stories by so many great writers that it becomes easy for us to imagine the possibilities...

BTW, in my plot the purpose of the FF's mission would be to repair/build some research satellite surrounding the earth. Doom would go with them to install his own "secret weapon" (which he would be able to get away with since he and Reed own the damn company doing it).

The FF are bombarded by cosmic rays, so Reed doesn't have time to find out Doom's plans. In the accident, Doom becomes burned and blames Reed for it (for whatever reason). I have this cool vision of a scene where Reed goes to the hospital to visit Victor who's wrapped up in bandages all over his face and body. Reed tries to talk to him, but all Doom does is stare at him-all you can see are Doom's eyes but they're so filled with hate that it's truly scary.

6 or so months later, Doom uses the weapon to threaten the UN into getting rid of Vladimir and giving financial/food aid to Latveria.

The UN refuses to give in to his terrorism and the FF are sent in.

I dunno, maybe the plot sounds like something from Austin Powers, but so sue me.

That's not bad. Not bad at all. If they set it up like that was Doom's plan all along and the others were only there as a front so nobody would suspect anything, it could work pretty well. I don't think having Doom's whereabouts be known after the accident would be good, or at least not in my opinion.

 

[snazzy J]

Okay, here's a plot outline a worked out just now combining the Frost script, the new script, and Sardaukar's idea:

Doom has been planning for years to take back Latveria and he is finally ready to do it, using his company's resources. To accomplish this, he's going to install a weapon on his pre-existing space station [This part does sound cheesy, but it explains why the launch occurs so quickly and why Doom comes along. If anybody comes up with a less-corny explanation, feel free to share it] and use it to take Latveria by force. The only problem is he needs an excuse to be up there so that no one will suspect anything. Enter Reed with his research mission, and Ben as his pilot. Doom has a history with the two, but realizes this is exactly what he needs for his plan, so they go ahead with the mission, along with Sue and Johnny. The accident occurs ala the Frost drift, except with Doom leaving in the escape pod like in the new script. The only difference is, instead of organic armor, he has been scarred, though we never actually see the scars. When he lands, he covertly returns to his company (Not on a stolen motorcycle!), leaving everyone to believe he has gone missing (or maybe the pod crashes and they think he's dead). He dons his armor, which he had already created to protect himself in his annexation of Latveria, forges his mask to hide his face, and decides to proceed with his plan, albeit with a newfound hatred of Reed, who he blames the accident on (though his scarring is actually his own fault). This all occurs in complete secrecy, no one being aware of his endeavors aside from a handful of scientists/engineers that he murders later on. Meanwhile, all the stuff from Frost's draft with the Four happens, setting up all their characters. Finally, in the third act, Doom carries out his plan and it is up to the Four to stop him. The ending I'm not so sure about, but I think it could involve Doom being defeated, but still getting away. Then, at the very end after Reed proposes to Sue, Doom could be shown something like "Commence preparations for Plan B, " or something, but less cheesy. Thoughts?

 

[homestarrunner]

thats the hotness....oh by the way im new so uh hey everyone

 

[snazzy J]

On Doom's character in general, a few things are a must. In addition to this:

In only a few (but gripping) moments throughout the film, Doom is disturbed and vulnerable (and we all know that Doom hates being vulnerable-it only adds to his rage and determination). He is continually plagued by nightmares and visions of a moment from when he was a child, a moment when his entire family was executed before his eyes. He feels ashamed that he, the rightful heir of Latveria, fled in fear while a usurper stole the throne.

Doom is also angry. You see, the usurper (let's respect canon and call him Vladimir) was actually backed and given weapons by the United States and other Western nations. But now Vladimir rules Latveria under an iron fist worse than that of the Von Doom's, but of course Vladimir is still an ally of the West as they continually overlook his crimes against humanity for political/economical reasons (just like China's control of Tibet).

This enrages Doom...and gives him enough of an excuse to really hate the world. That hate serves as proper motivation for him to avenge himself and his dead loved ones upon all the world.

I'd like to see a scene where Sue tries to understand why Victor is so angry and he explains to her his family's tragedy. Hell, if they really want Sue to connect intimately with Victor and make us understand the guy, that's a fine moment to do it in!

he should also:

- be a brilliant scientist-turned-businessman, not eurotrash-turned-businessman
- have come to America no earlier than his late teens
- have spent his time between the murder of his family and his arrival in America living in exile with the gypsies of Latveria, and his experiences in black magic could be hinted at
- have a pre-existing relationship with Reed and Ben (disliking them, but not all out hatred yet)
- have forged his company from the ground up through his own hard work and genius alone
- definitely not be going out with Sue
- be scarred and have artificial armor, not organic
- be primarily concerned with Latveria, not the Four (it won't make sense if he all of a sudden takes over Latveria in a sequel if he never cared that much about it in the first place)
- just act like Doom should: cold, vain, willing to do whatever it takes, but also with his own sense of honor, distorted as it may be

If they would do all that, I think it could definitely do Doom justice.




EDIT: Added another one.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I like your description of Doom´s background Sardaukar, i like it very much (like i already said in my previous post).
But i´m not to keen on the all, Doom would go with them to install his own "secret weapon" thing

 

[snazzy J]

I like your description of Doom´s background Sardaukar, i like it very much (like i already said in my previous post).
But i´m not to keen on the all, Doom would go with them to install his own "secret weapon" thing

I'm still unsure about that myself, honestly. It does do a good job of explaining why the launch happens so quickly, why Doom comes along, and working Latveria into the mix, but it certainly is awfully cheesy. But it's never gonna happen anyway so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[snazzy J]

Also, from the sounds of it, there's no actual reason for them to be fighting Doom. Everything so far leads me to believe they're only fighting because Doom is a whiny sissy and wants to get back at them. At least with the satellite laser or whatever they actually have a reason to fight him.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

In the Mark Frost´s script, Doom as already a lauch schedule and a pilot ready (Johnny) before Reed´s tells him about the idea of going into space to study the cosmic rays.
It´s all too convinient to the point of being weird...

Now, imagine this...
What if Doom already knew about the cosmic rays and their mutagenic properties?
What if it wasn´t Reed to go up to Doom, but the other way around?
What if Doom wanted to use Reed, Ben and Johnny as guinea pigs and Susan was pure bad luck and timing?
Do you think that Doom would mind if a woman was affected too, would he lose any sleep because of that?
Isn´t that the kind of things that Doom does to acchieve ultimate power?
The thing is, he wasn´t expecting that kind of side effects (powers)....
This way, you have a reason for them to fight Doom and to Victor be much more menacing and more Doom like...

 

[Paradoxium]

Curious fellow, first you say the Conroy dub over Bale thing, than you post that Blame George Lucas thing, than that wierd Jor-El/Lara script - now this - out of the blue

 

[Sardaukar]

Curious fellow, first you say the Conroy dub over Bale thing, than you post that Blame George Lucas thing, than that wierd Jor-El/Lara script - now this - out of the blue

What can I say, I'm a man of many talents.

And hey, I think somebody deleted my Supes script!

I wonder why.

Anyways, folks (and great ideas snazzy J and Isildur's Heir ).

I've been thinking that the "secret weapon" could be...

1. Like that orbital laser cannon from Akira which (unfortunately) was also used in that beyond lame Bond flick, just recently.

2. A launching platform for deadly microbes to poison the earth's atmosphere. Has that been done before?

3. Just some nukes. Not very original...but very effective.

 

[snazzy J]

Bump.

 

[dk]

I've said this before, I'll say it again: FF succeeds or fails as a film on the strength of Doom. He's not a mere run-of-the-mill comic book villain - to consider him such is to completely underestimate the character. Doom is far more complex than that. He's no less than the greatest villain in comics, period. He should be a screen villain to rival Darth Vader, Dracula, Hannibal Lecter, etc.

Falling short of that mark is failure, IMO.

 

[GoblinScrier]

I've said this before, I'll say it again: FF succeeds or fails as a film on the strength of Doom. He's not a mere run-of-the-mill comic book villain - to consider him such is to completely underestimate the character. Doom is far more complex than that. He's no less than the greatest villain in comics, period. He should be a screen villain to rival Darth Vader, Dracula, Hannibal Lecter, etc.

Falling short of that mark is failure, IMO.

Bravo, DK ! I've said this a thousand times too and much like a lot of us, we are Doom purists and can accept SOME changes, not changes to the point where we don't recognize him at all !

I am soooooooooo tired of hearing people like Rizpower tell us that we are fanboys and can't accept change, wait until more evidence comes out, etc. If we had been getting some sort of positive feedback, then maybe I would. Even if EVERY facet of what has been said about Doom was false, then I would eat my own words and take back any negativity. However, considering NOTHING but negativity has been announced about how the character or lack thereof for Doom would be potrayed, then it is my conclusion that until more interviews with McMahon, pictures of the "organic" piece of crap that he will call an armor or if there is a sane person in Hollywood or Marvel, he will get his NORMAL I-built-it-myself armor, then I will continue to speak my mind and I hope others will as well as how the greatest villain in comicdom and probably other media outlets is going to have a p*** poor adaptation.

LONG LIVE THE TRUE MONARCH OF CASTLE DOOM, LATVERIA IN EUROPE (NOT I LIVE IN A CASTLE IN NY ON TOP OF MY BIG FANCY BUSINESS).

I can see it now: if this movie succeeds and Doom is a corporate businessman/scientist, Doom will get his own talk show in the sequel and it will be called the Lackey ! He will play the Donald Trump character and he will try to find someone to be his lackey: at the end of the day, he will find a lackey and if he doesn't do what Doom wants, he will use his new found lightning powers (SHUDDERS at the thought of super powers for Doom) but if he does well, he will give him a brand new motorcycle, since he is so GOOD at stealing bikes !

 

[dk]

Bravo, DK ! I've said this a thousand times too and much like a lot of us, we are Doom purists and can accept SOME changes, not changes to the point where we don't recognize him at all !

I'll go as far as to put it this way: even if Marvel and Fox absolutely nail the FF themselves - and indications look like they may be pretty close - if they don't nail Doom with the same level of authenticity to the comics, the movie fails. The movie FAILS - flat-out.

Why? Because Doom is more important than the heroes in this case. Again, think Darth Vader, Dracula, Hannibal Lecter, Khan, etc. Sure, an audience may LIKE the heroes in those movies, they may identify with them, but it's the villain who really leaves the lasting impression. That's Doom. That's what Doom should be.

You've heard the saying, "A hero is defined by the villain they face"? That's never been truer than in the case of the FF and Dr. Doom. They HAVE to get Doom's character 90-100% right - all the nuances, all the complexities. I can't stress how key this is. If he's one-note...if he lacks the depth of character and motivation of his comic counterpart, it's disaster. Just the fact that Marvel and Fox spent so much time and effort trying to over-think and over-reinvent Doom troubles me, frankly. If it had been me, I would have come at it from the other direction - lift Doom as-is from the comics, and reinvent the FF to fit into HIS world. It would have been a much smarter approach, IMO.

 

[Herr Logan]

Yes, folks, the great Khan said words like those in that subliminal Trek sequel. Khan was a man of great power and intelligence, yet he was wounded and wanted revenge...what a great character he was; I dare say he was the best villain Star Trek ever knew.

Doom could be like that. The backstory of the Master's beloved Latveria could effectively be incorporated into this film, even if the only time we actually see that fair country is at the very end of the movie!

1. In only a few (but gripping) moments throughout the film, Doom is disturbed and vulnerable (and we all know that Doom hates being vulnerable-it only adds to his rage and determination). He is continually plagued by nightmares and visions of a moment from when he was a child, a moment when his entire family was executed before his eyes. He feels ashamed that he, the rightful heir of Latveria, fled in fear while a usurper stole the throne.

Doom is also angry. You see, the usurper (let's respect canon and call him Vladimir) was actually backed and given weapons by the United States and other Western nations. But now Vladimir rules Latveria under an iron fist worse than that of the Von Doom's, but of course Vladimir is still an ally of the West as they continually overlook his crimes against humanity for political/economical reasons (just like China's control of Tibet).

This enrages Doom...and gives him enough of an excuse to really hate the world. That hate serves as proper motivation for him to avenge himself and his dead loved ones upon all the world.

I'd like to see a scene where Sue tries to understand why Victor is so angry and he explains to her his family's tragedy. Hell, if they really want Sue to connect intimately with Victor and make us understand the guy, that's a fine moment to do it in! Then, to back that up, maybe Doom's claim to the Latverian throne could be quickly alluded to by a fast news clip or something.

2. Skip to the climax of the film:

The FF defeat Doom and his charred corpse is laying before them. But, guess what, when the authorities arrive to examine the body, they discover that it's a robot (or a dummy, whatever suits your taste)! Doom has escaped; he is still out there somewhere...

3. Skip to the very end of the film:

6 months later...

Sitting on this throne, King Vladimir is cowering in mortal terror. An invincible enemy has broken through his palace's defenses. A doorway blasts open. The king watches in horror as a dark, cloaked figure approaches him.

You know the rest...

No what kind of setup is that for a sequel?

God damn, Sardaukar...

This has shattered my expectations in the most exquisite way possible. This right here, this is the stuff. Much respect to you.

 

[snazzy J]

Okay, here's a plot outline a worked out just now combining the Frost script, the new script, and Sardaukar's idea:

Doom has been planning for years to take back Latveria and he is finally ready to do it, using his company's resources. To accomplish this, he's going to install a weapon on his pre-existing space station [This part does sound cheesy, but it explains why the launch occurs so quickly and why Doom comes along. If anybody comes up with a less-corny explanation, feel free to share it] and use it to take Latveria by force. The only problem is he needs an excuse to be up there so that no one will suspect anything. Enter Reed with his research mission, and Ben as his pilot. Doom has a history with the two, but realizes this is exactly what he needs for his plan, so they go ahead with the mission, along with Sue and Johnny. The accident occurs ala the Frost drift, except with Doom leaving in the escape pod like in the new script. The only difference is, instead of organic armor, he has been scarred, though we never actually see the scars. When he lands, he covertly returns to his company (Not on a stolen motorcycle!), leaving everyone to believe he has gone missing (or maybe the pod crashes and they think he's dead). He dons his armor, which he had already created to protect himself in his annexation of Latveria, forges his mask to hide his face, and decides to proceed with his plan, albeit with a newfound hatred of Reed, who he blames the accident on (though his scarring is actually his own fault). This all occurs in complete secrecy, no one being aware of his endeavors aside from a handful of scientists/engineers that he murders later on. Meanwhile, all the stuff from Frost's draft with the Four happens, setting up all their characters. Finally, in the third act, Doom carries out his plan and it is up to the Four to stop him. The ending I'm not so sure about, but I think it could involve Doom being defeated, but still getting away. Then, at the very end after Reed proposes to Sue, Doom could be shown something like "Commence preparations for Plan B, " or something, but less cheesy. Thoughts?

I know this idea was far from great, but I think it was at least good enough to deserve some feedback. Come on, people!

 

[snazzy J]

Nobody, eh? I guess Thing threads are the new Doom threads.