Villain for the sequel?

[X-Maniac]

They need to step it up for the sequel, make it more epic.

Namor is owned by Universal so he's out, Silver Surfer is mooted for his own movie so he's out, Mole Man and Puppet Master are a bit dated and corny....

The sequel needs Doom's rise to power in Latveria, having lost his electrical powers (I hope)... the main villain needs to be Galactus, somehow tied in with Doom's scheming.

Johnny meets new lover Crystal, Sue and Reed get married. They all stop Galactus and Doom.

Then, in Fantastic Four 3.... Sue and Reed have baby Franklin, with Doom helping with the abnormal birth, as a baby Franklin opens the portal to the Negative Zone with his reality-manipulating powers, where Annihilus brings him to rapid adulthood. Crystal brings the rest of the Inhumans to battle Annihilus and Franklin, and Doom joins the F4 to help send Annihilus back to the Negative Zone and somehow contain Franklin's power.

 

[The Thing 2005]

Galactus and the Silver Surfer would be the ultimate FF villians, or the Frightful Four. But neither is happeng. At least not now. Mabey for the 4 th movie, or mabey the third. And remember what Avi said. Making a destroying the world, or taking over the world movie is very diffucult to do. So anything they do has to stay on a personnel level.

 

[X-Maniac]

Galactus and the Silver Surfer would be the ultimate FF villians, or the Frightful Four. But neither is happeng. At least not now. Mabey for the 4 th movie, or mabey the third. And remember what Avi said. Making a destroying the world, or taking over the world movie is very diffucult to do. So anything they do has to stay on a personnel level.

The problem with keeping it on the personal level is that it can then seem a bit 'smalltime', and not very 'epic'. I know the FF are all about family dysfunction and bickering, but it has to go beyond that on the big screen.
Galactus needn't be shown trying to consume the entire world...but the threat of that happening could be there....

 

[Kelly]

The problem with keeping it on the personal level is that it can then seem a bit 'smalltime', and not very 'epic'. I know the FF are all about family dysfunction and bickering, but it has to go beyond that on the big screen.
Galactus needn't be shown trying to consume the entire world...but the threat of that happening could be there....

They are explorers not crimefighters...therefore their adventures and the people they come across...skrull, inhumans, etc....will bring the action....the epic comes from their relationships and adventures...epic does not necessarily mean more action.....it can mean deeper relationships, stronger dialogue, more expository dialogue rather than one-liners etc...not just big action. If you only have big action you have "The Island" and there was nothing epic in that that I saw. Great action, but no meat.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

And John Byrne made the FF be great sci-fi.

During his run, in the least, they were much more than just dysfunctional family and bickering.

 

[3dman27]

The sequel needs Doom's rise to power in Latveria, having lost his electrical powers (I hope)...

or at least retconned as being part of vicious vic's armor weaponry

 

[X-Maniac]

They are explorers not crimefighters...therefore their adventures and the people they come across...skrull, inhumans, etc....will bring the action....the epic comes from their relationships and adventures...epic does not necessarily mean more action.....it can mean deeper relationships, stronger dialogue, more expository dialogue rather than one-liners etc...not just big action. If you only have big action you have "The Island" and there was nothing epic in that that I saw. Great action, but no meat.

Well, okay, they are explorers, but a big screen movie still needs motivation and conflict. We can't just have them travelling off somewhere smiling nicely.

They have to have dramatic reasons for doing things and be thrown into dramatic situations that create suspense and conflict. That's how almost all films work. The movies could never follow the way the stories ran in the comics.

This next movie seriously needs to step it up. Critics did not like it, and critics DO influence people's choices. I thought it was okay, but that it could have been so much better. It's also didn't have many big moments in it, it started off in a poor way with Reed and Doom agreeing to go into space together (big departure from the comics, no real conflict). It should have been Reed and Doom competing for a space contract, Reed wins, Doom gets angry (and does not go into space at all). The whole storyline was deeply flawed. Rock music, Alba stripping off every five seconds, McMahon being more wooden than metallic, Reed being more superloser than superscientist, and there were some cringeworthy moments in it ('Let's not fight' 'No, let's!').

The sequel CANNOT afford to make those mistakes. Or it will be torn to shreds. Movies like X-Men and Spider-Man provide a good template here - strong action and drama intertwined, a 'big' feel, lots of conflict right from the start.

 

[Kelly]

Well, okay, they are explorers, but a big screen movie still needs motivation and conflict. We can't just have them travelling off somewhere smiling nicely.

They have to have dramatic reasons for doing things and be thrown into dramatic situations that create suspense and conflict. That's how almost all films work. The movies could never follow the way the stories ran in the comics.

This next movie seriously needs to step it up. Critics did not like it, and critics DO influence people's choices. I thought it was okay, but that it could have been so much better. It's also didn't have many big moments in it, it started off in a poor way with Reed and Doom agreeing to go into space together (big departure from the comics, no real conflict). It should have been Reed and Doom competing for a space contract, Reed wins, Doom gets angry (and does not go into space at all). The whole storyline was deeply flawed. Rock music, Alba stripping off every five seconds, McMahon being more wooden than metallic, Reed being more superloser than superscientist, and there were some cringeworthy moments in it ('Let's not fight' 'No, let's!').

The sequel CANNOT afford to make those mistakes. Or it will be torn to shreds. Movies like X-Men and Spider-Man provide a good template here - strong action and drama intertwined, a 'big' feel, lots of conflict right from the start.

Totally agree, and they find conflict where ever they go....I was just making a distinction between them and other superheros that run around New York and fight crime....thats not what they are about.....and their conflict is not just on the outside against an enemy....their conflict is from within as well and that should be just as important...

As far as Reed's character and the weakness there...totally agree...

As far as your example of the line used....there were others that were much more cringeworthy and to me that was more from the delivery of McMahon as Doom than anything else....

The Rock music used where it was used was no problem for me....Johnny being who he is should have rock music as his background....it fits....IMO...

Critics influence SOME people's choices....no one I know could even tell you what the critics thought of this movie...except the one critic that had the quote on the commercials...they remember that critic....

Striptese scene...totally agree....

Storyline was good.....what they did in the editing room was bad...

 

[The Thing 2005]

Storyline was good.....what they did in the editing room was bad...

Worse then bad. Was horendous.

 

[X-Maniac]

Storyline was good.....what they did in the editing room was bad...

Worse then bad. Was horendous.

But how can that entirely be proven and validated? Do we know everything they cut out or moved around?

Would it improve the slow, boring beginning? The striptease scenes (so needless when she looked hottest in her skintight uniform, not out of it)? The rock music and ski-ing scene (more meaningless MTV video crap)? The shot of Thing's girl running into the street in her nightwear? The crummy dialogue? Reed's 'superloser' attitude? The fact that Thing caused the crash that led to them being dubbed 'heroes'? The whole thing was very flawed. And even the visual effects weren't that good at times (loved Torch's flames and Sue's force field though).

A major re-think needs to be done for a sequel. I want to be blown away by something epic that highlights the dysfunction and unity of this family in mega-challenging situations. No corny crud like Mole Man or Puppet Master, give us megalomaniacal Doom rising to power (like scenes of the Hitler rallies, and take away those electrical powers), give us Crystal (but don't make her powers too like Storm), give us Sue and Reed's marriage, give us an epic badass villain to work with/for/against Doom. For me, someone like Galactus fits the bill...or maybe even Annihilus if that cosmic storm tore open a portal to the Negative Zone....

 

[Kelly]

But how can that entirely be proven and validated? Do we know everything they cut out or moved around?

Would it improve the slow, boring beginning? The striptease scenes (so needless when she looked hottest in her skintight uniform, not out of it)? The rock music and ski-ing scene (more meaningless MTV video crap)? The shot of Thing's girl running into the street in her nightwear? The crummy dialogue? Reed's 'superloser' attitude? The fact that Thing caused the crash that led to them being dubbed 'heroes'? The whole thing was very flawed. And even the visual effects weren't that good at times (loved Torch's flames and Sue's force field though).

A major re-think needs to be done for a sequel. I want to be blown away by something epic that highlights the dysfunction and unity of this family in mega-challenging situations. No corny crud like Mole Man or Puppet Master, give us megalomaniacal Doom rising to power (like scenes of the Hitler rallies, and take away those electrical powers), give us Crystal (but don't make her powers too like Storm), give us Sue and Reed's marriage, give us an epic badass villain to work with/for/against Doom. For me, someone like Galactus fits the bill...or maybe even Annihilus if that cosmic storm tore open a portal to the Negative Zone....

Yeah we do know what they cut out, we have all the deleted scenes running around here somewhere....i 10 or so in all....i agree w/ pretty much all that you've said...the the edtiting from Hoy was some of the worst....i hope that he's replaced more than anyone...

 

[X-Maniac]

I was thinking about this a bit and was thinking it should be Doom again, with a touch of the Doombots and Inhumans lore, but modified to fit the FF Movie universe.

So in the movie Doom uses reeds cosmic machine to change Grimm back into human form, and then Grimm uses it to revert back into the Thing form, so Reed's device is proven to work. This is a dangerous thing, a working device that can give anybody super-powers, and Victor being the brilliant and devious dude he is, and actually being around and utilizing the machine, will easily be able to recreate it.

So I was thinking Victor goes back to Latveria and reclaims his family's throne and he uses those resources to build his own cosmic machine for his own nefarious needs. His idea is to make his own army of super beings to do his will(replacing the idea of the Doombots) in his search to end the Fantastic Four and in the long run rule the world. One problem is he cannot, and will not use this device on his own people, since it would probably be considered an act of terror and he wants the adoration of his people, so he looks to another society to release this on. He looks no further than a neighbor of his, the small country of Attilan, which at this time is a smaller war-weary eastern bloc country with a low population ruled by a king named Blackagar Boltagon(later Black Bolt).

So Doom, without their consent, and unknowingly to them, cosmically 'nukes' the whole society blasting each citizen with the same cosmic rays that gave Doom himself his powers, masking it as a meteor crash or something akin to that. Reasons for this are as above, but also for an expirement as he is a scientist, and also for political gain, because as they all start to change panic and fear floods the small nation and Doom comes to their aid with financial and moral support, due to himself being afflicted, and wins their support for the time being.

The cosmic 'nuke' had an effect, but not equally on all people, turning some into powerful super-beings, some seemingly with no change at all, and some into underground dwelling sub-humans.

So Doom makes his case for opposition to the Fantastic Four, saying they will be a global police which is a threat to the free world, but Black Bolt and his royal family, including Medusa, Gorgon, Karnack and Triton, are unconvinced. Then Doom's savior comes in a seemingly un-modified citizen of Attilan, Black Bolts insane and jealous brother, Maximus. Maximus did actually get powers, the powers of mind control and posession, so he aids Doom in convincing his brother and the royal family into doing his bidding, and facing the Fantastic Four and then rallying his super-powered populace into taking over the world.

So after that Doom and the Inhumans would face the Fantastic Four and eventually through the battle Reed and crew would thwart the mental hold Maximus and Doom have over them to once again save the world, and free the Inhumans.

After this the Inhumans would retreat into seclusion and since their entire populace is modified they adopt the ritual of bathing their children in cosmic rays after puberty for all to be equal as this becomes their ritual from then on.

Sorry this took so long, just wanted to get out, what do you all think?

An interesting idea, good adaptation of the traditional Inhumans origin, but there are some issues...

Doom is such a megalomaniac I wonder if he would ever intentionally create other superbeings... He might work with other superbeings, but even then, he always makes sure he has an ace card, an advantage, an escape plan, and strategies galore...

I love the Inhumans and they deserve their own movie. Changing their origin the way you did is interesting, but I wonder if people might prefer something closer to the actual comicbook origin. They could be in a FF movie if Crystal and Johnny got together and Crystal then brought the other Inhumans into an epic battle against a major villain

As a movie possibility though, it does sort of work...

Maybe some of Doom's own Latverian citizens become the Inhumans through a cosmic ray 'terrigen mist' he creates, based upon the cosmic storm... At the end they leave to go and form their own city and world in Attilan, sealing themselves off from him.

I'd certainly love to see Blackbolt, Medusa and the others on screen.

 

[fangrl06]

Make a vilian up. All the other FF vilains suck.

 

[X-Maniac]

Make a vilian up. All the other FF vilains suck.

Don't be silly my dear. The comics are the source material. There are plenty that can be used. Sounds like you are not really a fan in that case. Begone!

 

[3dman27]

fangirl 06 is entitled to her opinion i've suggested original villians for the spidey films myself its not THAT bad an idea

 

[Kelly]

fangirl 06 is entitled to her opinion i've suggested original villians for the spidey films myself its not THAT bad an idea

i don't agree w/ her post, but yes she does have a right to her opinion, she might want to use alittle more tact next time...

 

[fangrl06]

i don't agree w/ her post, but yes she does have a right to her opinion, she might want to use alittle more tact next time...

My bad. Don't like the comic vilians for FF, create a new one. Better?

 

[Mr Sensitive]

My bad. Don't like the comic vilians for FF, create a new one. Better?

Let me see, you don't like any of these: Annihilus, Doctor Doom, Galactus, the Red Ghost, Diablo, the Puppet Master, Terrax, the Mad Thinker, Mole Man, the Super-Skrull.

If that's true, well, then I suppose it will be impossible for Story's quite weak team to come up with something different that can please you.

We have already seen what they're capable of with DINO, haven't we?

 

[gerbstat]

C'mon...What is it you people have against the Impossible Man?

 

[fangrl06]

Let me see, you don't like any of these: Annihilus, Doctor Doom, Galactus, the Red Ghost, Diablo, the Puppet Master, Terrax, the Mad Thinker, Mole Man, the Super-Skrull.

If that's true, well, then I suppose it will be impossible for Story's quite weak team to come up with something different that can please you.

We have already seen what they're capable of with DINO, haven't we?

I'm not THAT hard to please. All I'm saying is that Stan Lee wrote most of his earlier vilians tongue-in-cheek, and they were supposed to be corny. It was great for a comic, but not for the big screen. Tim Story should either "Raimify" them, or create some new ones. BTW, if they do go with one of them, I think it should be Puppet Master.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

I'm not THAT hard to please. All I'm saying is that Stan Lee wrote most of his earlier vilians tongue-in-cheek, and they were supposed to be corny.

I agree with you, but since good ole Stan there have been a great number of writers and approaches to the FF material (including villains).

 

[Kelly]

I'm not THAT hard to please. All I'm saying is that Stan Lee wrote most of his earlier vilians tongue-in-cheek, and they were supposed to be corny. It was great for a comic, but not for the big screen. Tim Story should either "Raimify" them, or create some new ones. BTW, if they do go with one of them, I think it should be Puppet Master.

i semi-agree w/ you on that....where i disagree that ALL the F4 villains are lame...i do feel that some modifications are needed....NOW NOT the massive modifications made to Doom...but some....Puppetmaster would be a good 2nd villain or 3rd even...not by himself...to me Psychoman, Malice, Hate Monger etc...would make a great story line....Crystal, would be a great side story w/ Johnny...the 3 i mentioned above for a storyline w/ Sue...Doom vs. Reed....a true fight like in "Authoritative Action" or Marvel Knights 1,2,3,4 not the stuff in the first movie...and Puppet Master w/ Alicia and Ben....those are just some ideas for some storylines that could coincide w/ each other...

 

[fangrl06]

i semi-agree w/ you on that....where i disagree that ALL the F4 villains are lame...i do feel that some modifications are needed....NOW NOT the massive modifications made to Doom...but some....Puppetmaster would be a good 2nd villain or 3rd even...not by himself...to me Psychoman, Malice, Hate Monger etc...would make a great story line....Crystal, would be a great side story w/ Johnny...the 3 i mentioned above for a storyline w/ Sue...Doom vs. Reed....a true fight like in "Authoritative Action" or Marvel Knights 1,2,3,4 not the stuff in the first movie...and Puppet Master w/ Alicia and Ben....those are just some ideas for some storylines that could coincide w/ each other...

The Hate Monger would be good, but instead of having Hitler as his alter ego, maybe we could have a more modern day real-life vilain.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm not THAT hard to please. All I'm saying is that Stan Lee wrote most of his earlier vilians tongue-in-cheek, and they were supposed to be corny. It was great for a comic, but not for the big screen. Tim Story should either "Raimify" them, or create some new ones. BTW, if they do go with one of them, I think it should be Puppet Master.

It's not that they were tongue-in-cheek or deliberately corny. They were written in another era entirely. It was the early 1960s when the FF were first written, four decades ago. The whole culture was different then.

Villains can be changed for the big screen, but not like Doom was. He should never have had electrical powers or been on that space mission.

 

[fangrl06]

Villains can be changed for the big screen, but not like Doom was. He should never have had electrical powers or been on that space mission.

As apposed to a crazy old man who runs around in a green suit with no powers at all? No wait, that's Joker...