Batman Begins I never understood that part where Alfred hits the mask with a bat and it breaks...

[Luchastyle]

Yeah, but Alfred said that this batch wasn't up to their usual standards. Why would they put emphasis on this batch of masks being inferior?

There's gotta be a reason.

batman uses a headbutt later. i think traditionally, for the movies, people think the cowl is just rubber. but this is more like a helmet. it is protective, but it is also a weapon. it was just a way of showing how tough his suit is. and that first shipment of cowls weren't tough enough.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

I've always thought those scenes showed that the road to becoming the bat was long and not as easy as it's been shown before. Even after all his training and discipline, he didn't just get the suit right away.

If you ask oddball questions like that, you should also ask why the camera BARELY starts to move towards Bruce after Earle tells him he looks like his dad.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I didn't need a scene with Alfred holding a baseball bat and rambling on about whatever with Bruce.

The point they lost was one already made. It wasn't easy for Bruce to slip into the Batman persona. We get it.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

I didn't need a scene with Alfred holding a baseball bat and rambling on about whatever with Bruce.

The point they lost was one already made. It wasn't easy for Bruce to slip into the Batman persona. We get it.

That wasn't the meaning at all ... not all scenes have meanings, per se ...

But one you could take from it was that there was still an overwhelming sense of vulnerability from a rookie vigilante Batman. That's the psuedo purpose of Alfred cracking the cowl with a hammer and then the following dialogue.

 

[BubbaGump]

Problem with the graphite, sir.

 

[Riven]

What I don't get is that people seem to think every single line in a movie should further the plot.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Problem with the graphite, sir.

"The next batch should be up to par. In the meantime, try not land on your head"


Smh@ the same people analysing every part of the movie and renderring certain things more "pointless" than others not even remembering the ****ing dialogue!!!!

Its Batman BEGINS, he's showing the process of the origin with every detail (which while some may find "pointless" and "boring" was also why it was held in credible praise)

 

[Super_Ludacris]

That wasn't the meaning at all ... not all scenes have meanings, per se ...

But one you could take from it was that there was still an overwhelming sense of vulnerability from a rookie vigilante Batman. That's the psuedo purpose of Alfred cracking the cowl with a hammer and then the following dialogue.

Trill Talk!

 

[Cyrusbales]

People who say that not every line has to matter etc in a screenplay are somewhat ignorant to the cinematic world. The reason the dialogue in BB is so bad, is because it's just a series of cliche lines etc that don't develop character, but rather play off of stereotypes.

To construct a good film, you need to have lines with purpose and a reason, let alone having a scene without a purpose, that's artistic suicide.

When you write a script PROPERLY, you go over it and find yourself adjusting lines by a single word, or punctuation etc for rhythm and suchlike. To throw in scenes 'willy nilly' without a point(or reinforcing something that has been stated numerous times already) is an example of rushed production line writting.

 

[Mr. Socko]

People who say that not every line has to matter etc in a screenplay are somewhat ignorant to the cinematic world. The reason the dialogue in BB is so bad, is because it's just a series of cliche lines etc that don't develop character, but rather play off of stereotypes.

To construct a good film, you need to have lines with purpose and a reason, let alone having a scene without a purpose, that's artistic suicide.

When you write a script PROPERLY, you go over it and find yourself adjusting lines by a single word, or punctuation etc for rhythm and suchlike. To throw in scenes 'willy nilly' without a point(or reinforcing something that has been stated numerous times already) is an example of rushed production line writting.

Or just do like the Wachowski's and give the illusion that every line has a purpose and reason, as sampled in any sequel to the Matrix...

 

[Super_Ludacris]

There was nothing wrong with the dialogue in Begins.....

 

[Cyrusbales]

There was nothing wrong with the dialogue in Begins.....

Apart from the fact there's wasn't any. One liners/quipps and monologues don't count as dialogue.

 

[BubbaGump]

"The next batch should be up to par. In the meantime, try not land on your head"


Smh@ the same people analysing every part of the movie and renderring certain things more "pointless" than others not even remembering the ****ing dialogue!!!!

It's "specifications", btw.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Apart from the fact there's wasn't any. One liners/quipps and monologues don't count as dialogue.

Well thank god your wrong about Batman Begins as usual...I was being to think you were "why so serious".

 

[Super_Ludacris]

It's "specifications", btw.

You get my point though pointdexter mother****er yes?

And I was agreeing with your post so let it swerve

 

[Superwoman Prime]

But one you could take from it was that there was still an overwhelming sense of vulnerability from a rookie vigilante Batman. That's the psuedo purpose of Alfred cracking the cowl with a hammer and then the following dialogue.

It wasn't easy for him to slip into the Bat persona we know from the comics.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

This is one of my favorite scenes in the movie. El Payaso is thinking too hard about this. As other's have said, it shows evolution of the suit. However, it works mostly as a humorous little scene in which we see Alfred and Bruce having a moment in which they aren't being all serious. It's a funny family moment. As for why his mask doesn't split in any later scenes- did anyone stop to think maybe those scenes take place after the new shipment of masks arrived? I will never understand the need for people to dissect these films so much. The scene was just an attempt to get a little chuckle from the audience.

I agree with this, its just to show how they made the suit, unlike the other films where he just automatically had it. Plus ya, the comedy to it, dry yes, but still works for the scene.

 

[BubbaGump]

You get my point though pointdexter mother****er yes?

And I was agreeing with your post so let it swerve

Lawl.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Oh there was dialogue in BEGINS. I find it funny people get upset at it's to the point nature, and shrug it off as being less intelligent. They truly don't know what they're talking about. The movie was to be epic in scope. The ideas from the character and the story is VERY idealistic. So therefore the dialogue follows suit. It was supposed to be that way.

It's funny, people who don't understand Nolan's vastly superior movie, or who flat out ride Burton's jock shrug things off like the dialogue as being simple or stupid as a means to discredit the film. "No subtelty" is commonly used. The film Batman Begins was MEANT ... to be idealistic, broad in scope, thematic ... and yes, was supposed to show the detail of the origin of this character. That hardly makes a movie less intelligent. Batman Begins was the MOST intelligent film of the bunch.

Burton homers love that no subtely jab. Yes, B89 and Returns are very "subtle" in dialogue. While at the same time not saying ANYTHING w/ or w/o that subtle dialogue. Batman Begins makes STATEMENTS. Both philisophically and sociologically in their film.

Batman Begins is subtle and somber in it's looks, and is bombastic and meaningful in it's characterization, story, the world created, it's themes, and it's dialogue.

Burton's Batman movies are bombastic and superficial in looks ... and ultimately don't amount to anything intelligent, because the actual story / dialogue doesn't say or do anything with the characters. They have no meaning what so ever.

Batman Begins gutter looks and broad and powerful story is a powerful device and view point borrowed from the BEST source material of Batman.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

It wasn't easy for him to slip into the Bat persona we know from the comics.

That has nothing to do with that scene ...

You're talking about psycologically it's hard for Bruce to slip into the Bat persona?

That couldn't be further from the truth, especially in Batman Begins. It's easy for him to slip into the role of Batman. Batman is Bruce Wayne's pure reaction to the world he is living in because he's channeling his feelings from an enraged 8 year old boy into that character of Batman.

Where you got it was difficult for him to slip into the Bat guise is beyond me, let alone try to argue that was what the "cowl cracking" scene was about. Hell, did you not watch the movie? There is a reason why Nolan's Batman is the darkest and most violatile seen on screen. Late in the movie, Alfred warns that Bruce may be getting too caught up when taking on this persona. Warning him not to become the actual monster he's pretending to be as a tool. Why? Because Bruce Wayne is enjoying it. He's relishing in releasing his demons on a city that haunted him from the age of 8. He's enjoying instilling fear in criminals who rule his city, etc.

The cowl cracking scene is ... oh wait for it Nolan haters ... subtely, w/o the use of blatant dialogue, sharing with the audience that there is a vulnerability to Bruce Wayne becoming Batman for the first time.

It's supposed to make the audience feel abit un-easy in terms that Batman isn't invinicible. He's very much a real person under that menacing guise, and his mission very well could end w/o proper caution. It makes the audience feel angst towards Bruce Wayne taking this journey.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Oh there was dialogue in BEGINS. I find it funny people get upset at it's to the point nature, and shrug it off as being less intelligent. They truly don't know what they're talking about. The movie was to be epic in scope. The ideas from the character and the story is VERY idealistic. So therefore the dialogue follows suit. It was supposed to be that way.

It's funny, people who don't understand Nolan's vastly superior movie, or who flat out ride Burton's jock shrug things off like the dialogue as being simple or stupid as a means to discredit the film. "No subtelty" is commonly used. The film Batman Begins was MEANT ... to be idealistic, broad in scope, thematic ... and yes, was supposed to show the detail of the origin of this character. That hardly makes a movie less intelligent. Batman Begins was the MOST intelligent film of the bunch.

Burton homers love that no subtely jab. Yes, B89 and Returns are very "subtle" in dialogue. While at the same time not saying ANYTHING w/ or w/o that subtle dialogue. Batman Begins makes STATEMENTS. Both philisophically and sociologically in their film.

Batman Begins is subtle and somber in it's looks, and is bombastic and meaningful in it's characterization, story, the world created, it's themes, and it's dialogue.

Burton's Batman movies are bombastic and superficial in looks ... and ultimately don't amount to anything intelligent, because the actual story / dialogue doesn't say or do anything with the characters. They have no meaning what so ever.

Batman Begins gutter looks and broad and powerful story is a powerful device and view point borrowed from the BEST source material of Batman.

BB is a standard hollywood action film screenplay.

As for making statements, it makes the same things OVER AND OVER AGAIN with glaring obviousness, not showing anything classy, like making a film commenting on war, by making a war film. Wheras a skilled filmmaker can comment on it through something like 'Live Flesh', using subtlety of dialogue amongst other things.

Whilst I don't think B89 is an amazing film, I still find it a lot better than BB, because it's messages are far more subtle and the art direction and direction in general better by far. Making important messages about the state of media and suchlike, rather than beating you over the head with a reccurent message that is very simple and so forth.

For people who know anything about screenwritting, BB is pretty dire, and even alot of the films fans will admit to this.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

What theme beyond the obvious one of "fear" is beaten over the audiences head? That is the obvious theme of the movie in terms of character motivations, but there are more themes to Batman Begins then that of fear. And really, there is nothing to be ashamed in those regards, seeing as the entire Batman mythos boils down to that one word.

You don't use subtle dialogue when you have so much exposition and story to tell, within such a short period of time.

B89 didn't have any character development or themes. What ones did you see?

Batman Begins asked questions about the nature of crime, the source of crime within society, who benefits from it, and the shades of grey between right and wrong. There was also statements made from post 9/11 war, using imagery and parrallels to a world forever altered by such a horrific event.

B89 is a glossy HOLLYWOOD shell. Batman Begins was an intelligent and meaningful movie, and virtually all critics continue to praise it as so today. What rock have you been living under?

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Truth!

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yes, meaning. Purpose for the scene as any screenwriter knows every scene should have. This one had none that wasn't already explained. And the helmet thing didn't go anywhere.

Connection. Everything in a mvoie happens for a reason, oftenly connected to things that happens in the future or have happened in the past. Thios scene prepared people for something happening with the helmets. Nothing happened leaving the scene as a cut loose.

The reason behind this scene was fairly obvious I thought. They wanted to show the process of Bruce becoming Batman. Yes, they showed his training in the beggining of the movie, but they also wanted to show process of getting his equiptment together, and some troubbles Batman might face when getting materials for a suit.

You may think that this is boring or tedious, but that (in my opinon) was why that scene was included. I thought it was fairly obvious. Just because you did not find it interesting does not make it pointless. One of the themes of Batman Begins was the journey and the process of becoming Batman, and that scene fit very well with that theme.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

That has nothing to do with that scene ...

You're talking about psycologically it's hard for Bruce to slip into the Bat persona?

That couldn't be further from the truth, especially in Batman Begins. It's easy for him to slip into the role of Batman. Batman is Bruce Wayne's pure reaction to the world he is living in because he's channeling his feelings from an enraged 8 year old boy into that character of Batman.

Where you got it was difficult for him to slip into the Bat guise is beyond me, let alone try to argue that was what the "cowl cracking" scene was about. Hell, did you not watch the movie? There is a reason why Nolan's Batman is the darkest and most violatile seen on screen. Late in the movie, Alfred warns that Bruce may be getting too caught up when taking on this persona. Warning him not to become the actual monster he's pretending to be as a tool. Why? Because Bruce Wayne is enjoying it. He's relishing in releasing his demons on a city that haunted him from the age of 8. He's enjoying instilling fear in criminals who rule his city, etc.

The cowl cracking scene is ... oh wait for it Nolan haters ... subtely, w/o the use of blatant dialogue, sharing with the audience that there is a vulnerability to Bruce Wayne becoming Batman for the first time.

It's supposed to make the audience feel abit un-easy in terms that Batman isn't invinicible. He's very much a real person under that menacing guise, and his mission very well could end w/o proper caution. It makes the audience feel angst towards Bruce Wayne taking this journey.

Go take a chill pill before you bust a nut there, guy.

I was saying that we're basically saying the same thing. When Bruce started off as Batman, he wasn't fully the Batman we know from the comics yet. He was more vulnerable, less experienced, so it took time to "slip into the persona" that we are more familiar with.