I never understood that part where Alfred hits the mask with a bat and it breaks...

Discussion in 'Batman Begins' started by Mr. Joker Risin', Feb 3, 2008.

  1. Mr. Joker Risin' Now I see the funny side.

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    Does anybody know what the point of that was? Why did they put emphasis on the masks being cheap, which leads to Alfred warning Bruce not to land on his head?

    There's gotta be some meaning behind it that I'm not seeing, cuz it's the only part of the movie I don't get.
     
  2. ChocheTheHero Registered

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    Alfred tries the durability of the mask, a warning after Wayne´s fall accident.
     
  3. Mr. Joker Risin' Now I see the funny side.

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    Yeah, but Alfred said that this batch wasn't up to their usual standards. Why would they put emphasis on this batch of masks being inferior?

    There's gotta be a reason.
     
  4. Buttman Son Of The Demon

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    I think it was just to show the audience they didn't just flick a switch and he was Batman. Things went wrong, and they slowly evoled it over a few months until they found something that worked for them.
     
  5. Mr. Joker Risin' Now I see the funny side.

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    Meh, I guess if nothing else, that'll do.

    Still seems kinda odd though...
     
  6. El Payaso Registered

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    The scene is either pointless or connected to something else that was deleted or not in the movie. Or, God help us, is an attempt to make an amazing attempt of realism.

    Either way, it was absolutely pointless. And slowed down the movie when it was being slow already.
     
  7. Spider-Fan83 with great power...

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    ya, there should of been a scene where he falls or someone hits him in the head with something, and his mask splits in half, and he had to hide, or leave, so, not to risk his identity, allowing whoever attacked to get away (or maybe even identify him)

    Another, line I thought was kinda odd, was when fox was talking about he suit, and pointed out "that he can take anything but a straight shot" again, realism, no armor can take a straight shot, and it shows that he's not fully protected, and is still putting his life at risk...yada yada

    but, I thought maybe it was going to be a set up line, for him to actually get shot by some villain or whoever, or they just get close enough to hold the gun right to his chest to threaten him, and he knows that if they shot the suit wont protect him, so,... idk ? whatever happens
    (it can possibility still happen the sequels, I guess) not that I what to see it happen, just it could have been set up for farther down the line
     
  8. Shoemeister srsly

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    Meaning behind it? Connected to a deleted scene? Slowed the movie down?!?!

    Buttman is right: it was simply there to show that he didn't automatically become Batman with no trials and tribulations. Everything didn't "just work". Plus, it showed was a nice little moment showing the playful nature between Alfred and Bruce.

    How hard is that to comprehend?
     
  9. El Payaso Registered

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    Watching at Goyer's work on BB, he might have written the seen merely as an excuse for Alfred's one-liner.





    Yes, meaning. Purpose for the scene as any screenwriter knows every scene should have. This one had none that wasn't already explained. And the helmet thing didn't go anywhere.

    Connection. Everything in a mvoie happens for a reason, oftenly connected to things that happens in the future or have happened in the past. Thios scene prepared people for something happening with the helmets. Nothing happened leaving the scene as a cut loose.

    Slowed the movie down a lot. At this point of the movie we had too many scenes giving us the very same redundant thing: whatever Batman got, he got it from Luicius Fox. One good scene could have shown us that brilliantly. But Goyer gave us many with nothing new. And in spite of that, this pointless scene slowed things down even more and for no reason.

    He didn't become Batman at once? Really? Maybe that's why of the first 60 minutes of the movie? 60 minutes or more of troubles and tribulations and they needed to state that again?

    But let's say Goyer in his adoration of endless repetition, wanted to make that helmet's scene. Doesn't he know the scenes have to cover many aspects? If he's writing a scene to state soemthing that has been stated in every scenen before, couldn't he at the very least give us someting new that was realted to the actual actions of the movie?

    In the Fox's scenes we learnt about the electric cloth. Several minutes later we see Batman with the rigid cape and we know why is that. fantastic, the scene was useful. Same with the Tumbler, the suit and the belt. The helmet? Nothing.

    Like the suit. He used it and understood he needed a mask.

    Then he tested it and understood he needed something to "fly."

    The helmet? Nothing. Ra's didn't break the helmet or did the helmet mean any problem for Batman. The scene of the helmet was there for nothing that wasn't fully explained (and over explained) before.

    And even so, they found out the helmet didn't work and what did they do? They used it anyways. *shrugs*

    Again, nothing that wasn't shown once and again multiple times and that, even for the sake of repetition, could have been used in a useful meaningful scene instead.

    What is hard to understand is how a writer with experience working for such a big-budget film about such a popular character with such a tremendous name as Nolan could make such a lousy writing work sometimes.
     
  10. Angeloz Registered

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    So no-one thought it was a dig at Chinese products or wherever it was? Then there's the obvious implication that it's still meant to be dangerous for him. Even with protection.

    Angeloz
     
  11. Nightwing1977 Want to see my mask??

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    Yep. I always see him breaking the mask as somewhat of a testing to see how strong or not the mask is. After all, he said "In the meantime, may I suggest you try to avoid landing on your head?". I figure this is his way of seeing if they can get a stronger mask.
     
  12. Tojo Registered

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    Slow already? BB was like the first time i ever had sex. It was simply over too soon to make any sense of what just happened.
     
  13. Axtech Registered

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    Agreed. It was just a step in the process of creating the suit, showing that he didn't just immediately know exactly how to create the image and the tools he would need to carry out his transformation.


    Why does every prep scene have to lead into something specific later on? That would become dull and predictable. "Oh look, they broke the mask, that means it's going to break at some point during a fight scene..."

    And they continued using the masks because he was waiting for a new shipment that would be up to the standards he required. What's he going to do, go back to using a ski mask? That would kind of defeat the purpose of creating the costume in the first place.
     
  14. Buttman Son Of The Demon

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    I don't care a great deal, but the scene did establish Batman has 10,000 copies of the Batsuit. There's a purpose for the scene.
     
  15. Swordmaster Big Damn Hero

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    10,000 of the cowl, not the batsuit
     
  16. LongHalloween Registered

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    I agree with a few of the people above. I think it was to show emphasis that the mask was not as strong as it should be if Bruce was to go out as a vigilante. It is a way to show the evolution of the outfit. It wasn't just made at home and worked perfectly the first time.
     
  17. El Payaso Registered

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    As I said, we have precisely that in lots of other scenes. Much more meaningful well thought and justified scenes. That fact anticipated that this scene was at that level. But no.[/COLOR]
    Because otherwise it is a dispensable scene. You can take it out and nothing changes. The basics of good writing is that every scene and line has a meaning and/or a purpose, even if this is not evident or obvious.

    It doesn’t have to be that the scene is conbnected to something happening later. But at least to give us vital information that is new.
    ...

    You mean that saying “Does it come in black” is dull and predictable because it shows us the color the Tumbler will be or that showing us the way the cape works or the Tumbler works is dull and predictable because we’re going to see it anyways later on?

    Information like this (the helmets crack easily) anticipate us to see something – anything – related to it. Doesn’t have to be the helmet cracking in the middle of a fight. As I said it could have had any other kind of information that’s not anywhere else. Otherwise it is just a pointless scene.

    It’s a whole subplot that served no purpose. The helmets crack easily and they have 10,000 of them. But the next shipment will be ok so... well, so that’s it. It doesn’t affect anything else in the movie.

    Again, could have easily not be there. You can recognize well-written scenes because if they aren’t there something vital is lost.
    Yeah, but what a lame purpose. It could be 600 or 1,230 or 20,000. But ok, it’s 10,000. The question is... so what? What’s the relevance of it?
    When Bruce used the ski mask and had to jump towards the enxt building. There you have a scene that shows that withn a purpose. He knows he will have to escape sometimes so what can he do? Bingo: the cape. Batman wears a cape for a reason.
     
  18. Angeloz Registered

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    The real question is where he will store the masks? An offshoot of the main cave? ;)

    Angeloz
     
  19. phillyboy the last boyscout

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    The thing that always gets me is, why didnt the the cowl crack when he headbutted falcone? Didnt Alfred say to avoid getting hit in the head?
     
  20. Mister J Enlightened to the Great Darkness

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    The force delivered by a solid headbutt is far less than what you would receive from a good swing with a baseball bat.
     
  21. BatmansJoker Registered

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    Maybe the helmet thing could be addressed in the dark knight because we know Batman gets new duds. Maybe a problem with the helmet is one of those reasons.
     
  22. Antinicolae Registered

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    This is one of my favorite scenes in the movie. El Payaso is thinking too hard about this. As other's have said, it shows evolution of the suit. However, it works mostly as a humorous little scene in which we see Alfred and Bruce having a moment in which they aren't being all serious. It's a funny family moment. As for why his mask doesn't split in any later scenes- did anyone stop to think maybe those scenes take place after the new shipment of masks arrived? I will never understand the need for people to dissect these films so much. The scene was just an attempt to get a little chuckle from the audience.
     
  23. Sun_Down Groovy

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    Are you guys serious? They were just starting out and he was testing the stuff they ordered. That was presumably the first or near the first order. So obviously that was not the mask used by the end of the movie.

    You people scare me sometimes.
     
  24. Lobster Charlie Registered

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    Don't worry, Sun_Down. This kind of talk always goes on between films, and when news is slow.
     
  25. Nightwing1977 Want to see my mask??

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    Headbutting a guy isn't hard as hitting a bat. After all, bat are more harder than skull. Beside, maybe Batty has improve his mask too.
     

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