Batman Begins "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

[Two-Face]

Please stop thinking Ducard is not dead! He couldn't possibly survive, Nolan's world folks. Maybe someday the return of Ra's will be because someguy took the light and continued Liam's job, but I can't see him returning in another batfilm. It's mostlikely sad because Liam Neeson is great noboday can say the opposite

I like I said "I still don't believe that his dead."

 

[El Payaso]

I still think the sky is green.

 

[Everyman]

Please stop thinking Ducard is not dead! He couldn't possibly survive, Nolan's world folks. Maybe someday the return of Ra's will be because someguy took the light and continued Liam's job, but I can't see him returning in another batfilm. It's mostlikely sad because Liam Neeson is great noboday can say the opposite

Nolan's world had also the League of Shadows destroy Rome and London in the past, and some other cities as well. Having Ra's survive isn't really a stretch compared to this. Had he wanted Ra's dead, I think he would have shown him dead. Not falling to his death, but actually dead. Of all Batman's nemesis, he is probably the most resilient, and he was pictures as such in the movie. This is not incidental.

 

[Beelze]

Nolan's world had also the League of Shadows destroy Rome and London in the past, and some other cities as well. Having Ra's survive isn't really a stretch compared to this.

Well, Rome did get sacked, and London did burn... but no man has ever survived what you are suggesting Ra's could've survived. In order to bring Neeson's Ra's back they would have to reveal a factor unknown to the audience as of Begins... such as Ra's having a teleport.

 

[Everyman]

Well, Rome did get sacked, and London did burn... but no man has ever survived what you are suggesting Ra's could've survived. In order to bring Neeson's Ra's back they would have to reveal a factor unknown to the audience as of Begins... such as Ra's having a teleport.

Rome was sacked, but not by a secret organisation which survived centuries (even millenias), neither was London's Great Fire provoqued by a conspiracy of any kind. And people survived traincrashes, shipwrecks and even planecrashes. Not often, but sometimes, and often they are in a pitiful state. They would just have to reveal the existence of the Lazarus Pit to explain why Ra's survived and got back into shape.

 

[javi1024]

Most recently they did with Dafoe/Green Goblin. So there's a precedent.

unless your talking about some spoiler im not aware of, hes only returned as a hallucination.

 

[indy83]

Somebody said there was a supposed picture of Ra's jumping out going around on the internet. I don't believe this at all and I also believe he is dead but if there really is a picture how come it hasn't surfaced here yet?

 

[Beelze]

Rome was sacked, but not by a secret organisation which survived centuries (even millenias), neither was London's Great Fire provoqued by a conspiracy of any kind. And people survived traincrashes, shipwrecks and even planecrashes. Not often, but sometimes, and often they are in a pitiful state.

Of course the League of Shadows didn't cause those things to happen, because it's not a real organisation (unless it's using Batman for reverse psychology ). However, countries have had disputes and have warred for a few thousand years, so it's not impossible to believe that there could've been an organisation like the League of Shadows, manipulating behind the scenes (hell, it seems to have happened a lot in recent history, with certain governments). My point is that those things could have happened because of an organisation like the League of Shadows, but no man could survive being next to explosions like the ones at the end of Begins.

I'm starting to think that some of you haven't really seen the sequence where the train crashes through a building, catches on fire, passes through a couple of explosions, finally suffering a series of both small and big explosions due to the microwave emitter going haywire. After Ra's closed his eyes, he had barely FIVE seconds to escape the train, during circumstances that would've made Houdini crap his pants, before it crashed into the parking lot.

They would just have to reveal the existence of the Lazarus Pit to explain why Ra's survived and got back into shape.

Oh, I'm not disputing that. They could come up with any explanation, or simply not give us one, and just bring Ra's back if they wanted to. I'm not sure Nolan would want to go with the idea of lazarus pits though, and I don't think they have ever used a lazarus pit to resurrect french fries. They might as well go with a time-stopping wrist watch, and have Batman face off against the Clock King in the sequel.

 

[indy83]

I don't think i'd like to see Ra's as a main character or enemy in another Batman movie but if they maybe decided to just show a glance of him somewhere in on e of the movies, just to get you thinking and just to show Batman that he is still alive but then leave him be, that might get some people ryled up.

 

[Everyman]

Of course the League of Shadows didn't cause those things to happen, because it's not a real organisation (unless it's using Batman for reverse psychology ). However, countries have had disputes and have warred for a few thousand years, so it's not impossible to believe that there could've been an organisation like the League of Shadows, manipulating behind the scenes (hell, it seems to have happened a lot in recent history, with certain governments). My point is that those things could have happened because of an organisation like the League of Shadows, but no man could survive being next to explosions like the ones at the end of Begins.

Well, you think that an organisation like that could have existed and destroy Rome and London, but that a fictitious character could not survive a trainscrash? Come on! You are putting fiction in real life but are refusing fictitious licences to a work of fiction. For the history lesson, I can assure you, there was no secret organisation powerful enough to burn Rome (Nero probably never even did it, it was caused by an accident) and the embryo of the Catholic Church that existed back then was not responsible for it either, neither were they a secret organisation willingly, they went public as soon as the Persecutions stopped. The sack of Rome was done openly by Barbarian tribes, they were very open about it as well. And the London fire was also caused by an accident. So Nolan was totally fantacising there. In total fiction. There was no way in real life these events could have been done by an ultra secret esoteric organisation. There is no way that in real life Batman could have glided in the air with his cape either, by the way, without breaking his neck. In real life, Ra's would have found it quite difficult to survive, but that isn't totally impossible. Just very improbable. That said, this is fiction.

 

[iceberg325]

Of course the League of Shadows didn't cause those things to happen, because it's not a real organisation (unless it's using Batman for reverse psychology ). However, countries have had disputes and have warred for a few thousand years, so it's not impossible to believe that there could've been an organisation like the League of Shadows, manipulating behind the scenes (hell, it seems to have happened a lot in recent history, with certain governments). My point is that those things could have happened because of an organisation like the League of Shadows, but no man could survive being next to explosions like the ones at the end of Begins.quote]

You have to understand this is the comic universe, everyone survives some how of the other.

 

[Beelze]

Well, you think that an organisation like that could have existed and destroy Rome and London, but that a fictitious character could not survive a trainscrash? Come on! You are putting fiction in real life but are refusing fictitious licences to a work of fiction. For the history lesson...

Spare me the history lesson. Just because something didn't happen the way it's depicted in fiction, doesn't mean that it could not have happened that way. Secret organisations have existed and some probably do exist, but no man survives what Ra's went through at the end of BB. Really, did you see what happened to the part of the train that Ra's was in?

You have to understand this is the comic universe, everyone survives some how of the other.

You have to understand this is Nolan's universe, and that I'm talking about what's realistic and what's not. I've already agreed that it is pretty likely that we will see Ra's again.

Anyway, this has gone off-topic... not that I mind. I'm sure others find this amusing as well.

 

[Everyman]

Spare me the history lesson. Just because something didn't happen the way it's depicted in fiction, doesn't mean that it could not have happened that way. Secret organisations have existed and some probably do exist, but no man survives what Ra's went through at the end of BB. Really, did you see what happened to the part of the train that Ra's was in?

Believe me, uber-organisations that are so totally secret no one but their members know of their existence and are controlling the world's events (and some of them) don't really exist in real life, and secret societies of the past are nowadays well known. It works well in the world of paranoid fantasy to think that the fire of London was provoqued by some obscure scheming force, but don't try to defend this possibility in real life. Having the League of Shadows responsible for all great disasters is just as ridiculous as having Ra's survive. Both don't work in real life.

 

[DareDemon]

I believe Ras is dead.

I believe Batman "letting" him die was totally understandable. How could he have possibly saved Ras anyway? It takes over a mile for a train to come to a stop after putting on the brakes, they didn't have enough distance. The only way to stop the train before it destroyed the entire city, MILLIONS of people, was to take out the tracks. If there was a better way, Batman would have done it, but that option was not open. Once the tracks were gone, Batman had to escape. Unfortunately for Ras, Batman couldn't take him with him. If he could, I'm sure he would have.

Sure, his statement "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you" may have seemed heartless, but you could assume Batman said it to allow himself to follow through with leaving him, even though he had no choice.

Honestly, I don't know how people can be so blind to something so obvious. He couldn't save everyone. It just wasn't possible. He had to make a choice between letting millions die, just Ras dying, or letting himself AND Ras dying. He made the obvious choice.

And by the way, this is the movie universe, not the comics. If Joker gets caught and sent to jail, he won't escape 500 times.

 

[iceberg325]

He has NO OBLIGATION to save Ras. Yes hes a hero, but he doesnt even have to do what he does. People should be grateful for that. I dont think the citizens of gotham would care too much that Batman let Ras die.

 

[Joker831]

I totally agree with the fact that he doesnt have to save Ra's. The thing that burns me up is that some accept him doing it in this movie, but in B89, it was wrong.

Ra's is a terrorist who is hellbent on getting his "job" done. Had Batman saved him and put him in jail, he was getting out one way or another via League of Shadows, thus him coming back later to destory Gotham once again.
Joker in B89 was the same way. He has just tried to kill thousands with poisonous gas. Batman was in a predicament, dangling with Vicki and couldnt afford to let Joker escape, so he tied him to that gargoyle.

Did Batman know he would of fallen? Perhaps...but Batman also knew Ra's would die on the train, so what's the difference?

I dont want to ramble on comparing....i just feel that these movies should base in reality, that there is a different justice for everyone, each villian. Batman must do what's right to protect the city. Most of the time, that means detaining them and jailing them, but every once in a while, death may be called upon on such a big threat as the only justice.

Batman not saving Ra's didnt affect me much, i enjoyed it more as the ending. Batman Begins totally rocked...just had to get that off my chest.

 

[Galactical]

Different Justice for everyone? Different... Justice... for... everyone?

Batman's supposed to be impartial. The reason he let ducard go was becaue goyer wrote himself into a corner by letting ducard know batman's secret identity and needed to get rid of him. He forgot about the bunch of ninjas who knew too. Who knows where they are at the end...

 

[DareDemon]

Different Justice for everyone? Different... Justice... for... everyone?

Batman's supposed to be impartial. The reason he let ducard go was becaue goyer wrote himself into a corner by letting ducard know batman's secret identity and needed to get rid of him. He forgot about the bunch of ninjas who knew too. Who knows where they are at the end...

Cops are impartial too, but they carry around guns last I checked, and they would definately open fire if the person started causing danger.

 

[Galactical]

"DO I LOOK LIKE A COP?"

Batman doesn't kill.

 

[DareDemon]

"DO I LOOK LIKE A COP?"

Batman doesn't kill.

Good thing he didn't

 

[DareDemon]

And in the movie he says "I won't kill in cold blood, execute, etc."

Honestly, HOW could Batman have saved him?

 

[Galactical]

Uh, but you think he should?

 

[DareDemon]

Kill? No, he shouldn't, in cold blood. But when it comes down to him choosing to save the bad guy and having millions die, or saving the millions and having one die, I hope Batman's judgement isn't seriously messed up. He should prevent as many deaths as possible. Sometimes you gotta take a step back in order to go two (or in this case, about 11 million) steps forward.

 

[Galactical]

And in the movie he says "I won't kill in cold blood, execute, etc."

Honestly, HOW could Batman have saved him?

er..Whatever way he implied that he could have if he wanted to...

 

[DareDemon]

I think he said that line because while it was nessecery for Ras to die, and even though he couldn't do anything about it, he felt guilt over leaving his once father figure to die. Saying that helped him do what he had to. It helped him keep it straight in his mind that bad things sometimes happen to prevent worse things from happening.