I see your point, Dread, but it doesn't mean it can't be done! I love all of X Men's classic nemesis (nemesi???) but I am a bit tired of Magneto now-he has a bit too much overexposure at the moment, imho. This leaves us with second rung villains like Empath, Vargas (who I like), Ord (who I also like, mainly of Whedon's writing, but they won't go into space), Cassandra Nova and so on. Like I said, with the series avoiding space and magic storylines, we are stuck with the same villains over and over again.
I agree, more Sinister and Marauders. I would like a series to address Gambit's past with them (which they might have done in season 2).
I don't think Magneto's been overexposed to the same point as, say, Joker and Lex Luthor have in films or cartoons. Hell, in the 90's cartoon, he was almost a guest character rather than a perennial villain after Season 2.
Magneto's the focal point after Xavier, and they're the yin and yang. I'd argue it is impossible to do a decent X-Men show without him, and I don't think I would want to see a show try. He's one of the greatest comic book villains of all time, and part of that is because he's more than a cackling stereotype (although in 80's animation, he was exactly that). While we can (and have) nit picked WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN's flaws, one of their strengths was how they handled Magneto.
The last original villain I recall in an X-Men cartoon was Guy Spears from X-MEN EVOLUTION, who was making a sports drink, "Power8", that turned out to be able to physically harm mutants in "X-TREME MEASURES" in Season 3. The Morlocks got the brunt of it as the fluid leaked into the sewers, and while he claimed ignorance and told Xavier he would cease production, the episode ended with him claiming his drink was now more valuable. It was actually one of a few interesting potential subplots that Evolution let drop (Colossus being another). I suppose he could have become a Lex Luthor type figure, an enemy of the X-Men who hides behind legalities and due process to avoid punishment. Of course, one could imagine that William Stryker or Bastion could be handled in a similar fashion.
Could we count Duncan Matthews as an "original" villain? He was created to fill out the supporting cast of EVOLUTION, to basically give Jean a jock to date while Cyclops was having a brief romance with Taryn Fujioka. He was a constant jerk character, but some could argue he became a villain. When mutants became outed after the end of Season 2, he became a flat-out opponent of the X-Men; literally teaming up with the Brotherhood to physically fight the X-Men in an attempt to get them thrown out of school for using their powers in public. True, he was manipulated into that position by Principal Kelly, but he eagerly tried to punch Cyclops out. He led his jock buddies to assault Scott at least once before, and of course by Season 4, we have "UPRISING". Despite having graduated, Duncan's still wearing his varsity jacket and decides to lead his goon squad to nuke mutants with Ghostbuster-style proton packs.
Is
this the face of a villain?
Some people at the time referred him to Flash Thompson, but he's actually far removed from Flash. Thompson at least in the end proved to have a heart under his jerk-armor. Duncan's just all jerk, covering a core of psycho-sauce.
I'm open to using some more obscure villains, such as Vargas or so on. I was never a fan of Ord. Joss Whedon likes villains who wax and wane between dangerous and comedic, but I don't think it worked for Ord. You're not a threat after Lockheed sends you screaming into the night. You can't lose to the team pet and still be a threat. That's like losing to Snarf.
Least outside the Guardians of the Galaxy, but neither Cosmo or Rocket Raccoon are pets; they're members outright. Lockheed's a pet.
Did Spider-Man ever make it to 26?
You have to admit, if Cyclops was really only 19 at oldest at the time of Giant Size, it makes this panel all the more unintentionally funny -
^Now I love this panel, but I can't deny there's also something unintentionally funny about it, though that may just be because I'm looking at it in the here & now when Wolverine is supposed to be the greatest X-Man of them all, and if Cyclops is really only 19 in this shot, well, that just makes it funnier.
I think Marvel begrudgingly claims or implies that Spider-Man is 25-27 years old, but no older. And even 27 would push it. I mean, I'm 28 and that's not young; only 37 years away from social security!
I do agree, those panels are funnier if you go with Marvel that he's hardly supposed to be 20 or 21 there (anymore). But that's their story for perpetual youthful characters. In another decade, they'll say he was 12 in that scene.
Of course, the very concept of "Marvel Time", of characters not aging in or close to real time, was hardly even dreamed up by the mid 70's when that issue was written and drawn. That was a concept that began in the late 70's at best, into the 80's.
Panthro said:
That is pretty sad. I'd love to see them animate Colossus beating up Ord (from Astonishing).
Ord was a lame villain (to repeat, Whedon tried to have him wax and wane between comedy and threat, and I don't think it worked), but that was a good scene. That said, "I am made of rage!" scenes with Colossus really shouldn't be that hard to write and storyboard. They're feats of strength & smashing. Hulk and Superman get moments like that all the time. Why is it such a problem for Colossus? It certainly can't be as rare or hard as writing a bit where Squidboy saves the day.
And yet...
Panthro said:
I don't know if I would call an episode that vilified its primary character good. It may not have been the writer's intention to vilify Cyclops (and by extension his relationship with Jean), but the episode failed to put him in any kind of positive light. Watching him get punked in the Danger ROom was like watching Hal Jordan get brutalized by Batman & Robin in Frank Miller's All-Star B&R (that and watching him & the other X-Men get punked by ninjas). Even if you argued that Logan was daring Scott to take a swing at him - and Logan did seem to be taunting Scott with his smug "She could do a lot better [than you]" line - that doesn't justify Scott going ape-s*** on him. In the end it still felt like anti-Cyclops/pro-Wolverine propaganda, regardless of whether or not Logan egged him on. Even in their audio commentary they couldn't really justify it beyond "we just wanted the show to open with Scott & Jean arguing." It's too bad, it could have been a more touching episode if it had been "The Rise & Fall of Cyclops" instead of settling for "The Multiple Falls of Cyclops".
Though you have to wonder if it was part of some plan to make the audience (X-fans and non-X-fans alike) root for Emma to "save"/"rescue" Scott from his unhealthy relationship with Jean. It's kinda sad that even in this day and age of supposedly "superior writing" that some writers still can't seem to build a new relationship without demonizing the previous one.
Flaws in writing are flaws in writing under any era. The wasteland of the early 1980's animation still had some well written shows that sought to push those boundaries. Much as there are shows now that squander opportunities.
In a discussion with a friend online, I came to the realization that until about the late 90's or early 2000's, "leader" characters in team shows were usually the flattest ones. They usually were the least flawed, who delivered the most exposition or functional dialogue (of the "This way, gang!" variety), and could often have the show stolen from them by a wittier, more flawed supporting character. As the 21st century came, though, this trend in Western animation started to wane. For EVOLUTION, the writers (many of them the same) managed a good balance between showing Scott as flawed, and making mistakes, and depicting his strengths and making him likable. For WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, they went too far in one direction and barely acknowledged the rest. Part of me thinks the writers didn't quite realize the impression they were putting out until later, if at all. They were just rushing to meet deadline and obey the series bible. Part of me likes to think they didn't want to deliberately make Cyclops seem like a sympathetic villain more than a tormented anti-hero, that they know the difference because they've written better stuff before. But maybe part of me is still an optimist.
Or, like a lot of problems with writing, they had a fine idea, but botched the execution. In writing, execution is better than an idea, sometimes. A great idea executed poorly is not worth more than a mundane idea executed brilliantly.
We digress. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, loved it or hated it, or somewhere in between, is gone. The riddle will be what the next, inevitable X-Men show will be. Part of me thinks the cast will skew younger, and likely may have their Ultimate outfits. The Ultimate line is dying in the comics, but mass media people still seem to like it. Plus, to executives over 35, "ten years ago" is called "current".
Panthro said:
Colossus is extra cool when he's pissed.
Damn right! Wolverine's intense when he's mad, but he can't knock a building over.
Panthro said:
Who doesn't love Mr. Sinister?
Some of the Kid's WB people, since he wasn't there?
Panthro said:
Even if they were modernized into more competent threats?
It would take some incredible writing to make Locust, Cobalt Man, or Mechano into anything decent on TV. On the other hand, think of the narrative freedom!
Panthro said:
Aw, but Colossus fighting the Skrulls would be awesome! (if staged properly)
If staged properly, any fight can be worth watching. That's the point of good staging. You think imported martial arts films become and remain hot for the plots? It's the awesome fights, man!
